Not By Works

[preacher4truth]

Amen!!

I have no need of external personal experience beyond my life which is hid with Christ. He meets my every need there.

Thank you dear sister.

Earnestly contend and God bless!

 

[BillG]

I've met quite a few of them also.

Interesting you say that.
I know a Mormon and have done for years. Fairly high up in the hierarchy.
He went to Utah about 20 years ago.
Came back the the U.K. about 5 years ago.
We got to talking again about church and faith and Jesus.

This is no word of lie, he said the following to me

"Do you know what when I talk to people about Jesus I do tell them that I am a Mormon and about my church but I also say to them if you are seeking Jesus try different churches and go to the one where you will find Jesus"

I thought wow

 

[preacher4truth]

No man can add any topping to the work of Christ. Any person who believes otherwise is a fool.

 

[FranC]

conditional security is no security at all. It depends on you. How can we trust self to do anything.. That is what got mankind in the situation we are in to begin with.

Well. Tell me this EG...

If God is such a loving God
So much so that He is willing to do EVERYTHING for us because He loves us so much...

HOW COME He didn't do everything for Adam and He allowed Adam to eat the forbidden fruit??

No. Really. Explain it.
That's what theology is.
Being able to explain GOD -- as best we could of course.

 

[Meggido]

I used to be on the fence about OSAS. And the subject was of little interest to me because it didn't have much practical value in daily living (like most theological discussions). And I just left it to the (so-called) more educated leaders of the church to determine church doctrine concerning it. But then H-grace came along. Then all of a sudden OSAS DID matter. Suddenly it did matter that OSAS had gone over the edge and was now saying that even if you stop believing and openly denounce Christ and don't endure to the end in your faith you are still saved now and Christ will save you on the Day of Judgment. Enough is enough. That's going over the line.

The failure of the church was to entrust the matter of OSAS to these supposedly qualified and educated leaders of the church who gave us OSAS in the first place. Instead of investigating it for ourselves we just decided since they have all the knowledge then they surely must be right. And it definitely tickles the flesh. But my own Berean reading of scripture shows how absurdly wrong OSAS is and how foolish the church has been to swallow that garbage without investigating it fully.

Same thing with end-times theology. 911 renewed a more practical and timely interest in end times for me which drew me into the Bible and caused me to see how absurdly wrong so many end times doctrines are in the church, but which we so easily and quickly adopt as our own beliefs, but let's not go there now...



OSAS generally does not build people up but instead installs a kind of spiritual laziness in the church. Generally speaking, of course. I have to say that because no one will admit that's what it does to them. Instead people will claim it makes them more productive, not less. If it does make anyone here more productive, then good......I'm not talking about you.

We were channel surfing last night, after church, and Stopped on the Hillsong Channel[normally we would just pass on by] and and heard Carl Lentz, Sr. Pastor of Hillsong Church New York, say verbatim that OSAS and Grace will allow you to grow through being a Christian, including the times, you deny him and the christian lifestyle and work it out in the world and come back....even if you grieve the Holy spirit...he said it did not matter...because grace allows us to try God out and then work it out and be our old selves and all that new man jazz is just religion....we have to be who we are...and all that other junk is just rules...his rebellious spirit came out last night and he lashed out people criticizing hillsong and Brian Houston....t was a travesty....yet there had to be thousands in his church whooping it up....

 

[FranC]

Thats too bad..

That means he is working to maintain his salvation also.. and rejecting the grace of God. which offers to save him.

All super- smart peopel are.

Jesus said so... But why pay any attention to what JESUS said?



Matthew 25:44-46New American Standard Bible (NASB)

44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [a]take care of You?’

45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”



I do believe the righteous are the ones who did as Jesus instructed.

 

[preacher4truth]

Oh, BTW, lost a "friend" on here due to believing the full sufficiency of the work of Christ, and in the preservation of the saints, what some call osas. That's what standing on the Gospel will do at times, and I am not ashamed of the Gospel.

 

[UnderGrace]

Theology cannot explain what God does not tell us.

Having said that, who says He didn't do everything for Adam?

He sent Jesus didn't He, to fix Adam's mistake, what more do you want?

Oops sorry EG...it just pains not to answer sometimes.

Well. Tell me this EG...

If God is such a loving God
So much so that He is willing to do EVERYTHING for us because He loves us so much...

HOW COME He didn't do everything for Adam and He allowed Adam to eat the forbidden fruit??

No. Really. Explain it.
That's what theology is.
Being able to explain GOD -- as best we could of course.

 

[FranC]

You can't know the difference, Your not God, neither am I. You can guess, but only God knows.

People can act like Christians, and not be, People can be Christians, and you may doubt they are. Only God knows.

Boy. Listen carefully,,

It's YOU that judge Others.
Those who believe in OSAS judge Others.

Why?

Because if they FALL AWAY..
YOU say they were NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH.

THAT is judging.

Capisci?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

All super- smart peopel are.

Jesus said so... But why pay any attention to what JESUS said?



Matthew 25:44-46New American Standard Bible (NASB)

44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [a]take care of You?’

45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”



I do believe the righteous are the ones who did as Jesus instructed.

Ecclesiastes 7:20

“For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.”

Romans 3:21-27

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well. Tell me this EG...

If God is such a loving God
So much so that He is willing to do EVERYTHING for us because He loves us so much...

HOW COME He didn't do everything for Adam and He allowed Adam to eat the forbidden fruit??

No. Really. Explain it.
That's what theology is.
Being able to explain GOD -- as best we could of course.

1. He did everything needed to save us, That's called the cross. what do you think you can add to the cross that would make you more saved than any other person who will be in heaven.

Why can you not realise there is a difference between salvation from the penalty of sin, (justification) and ongoing sanctification from the power of sin?

 

[UnderGrace]

Well you gained a friend too!

I agree we have to stand by the truth not matter what it costs, because only the truth will set people free and if we love them we can do no less.

Oh, BTW, lost a "friend" on here due to believing the full sufficiency of the work of Christ, and in the preservation of the saints, what some call osas. That's what standing on the Gospel will do at times, and I am not ashamed of the Gospel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

John Chapter 6


28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.



Ephesians Chapter 2


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Romans 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Galatians Chapter 5


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

So simple. yet people make it so hard.

 

[Stephen63]

Oh, BTW, lost a "friend" on here due to believing the full sufficiency of the work of Christ, and in the preservation of the saints, what some call osas. That's what standing on the Gospel will do at times, and I am not ashamed of the Gospel.

Yes, you did.

I won't change my old standards for no one..... NO ONE.

 

[FranC]

let me try a real life example- a person comes out of a drunken partying lifestyle, confess Jesus, and " lives right ". then, they go back to that lifestyle one day, and never again repent. did that person fall away, or were they never actually saved?

my question is WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?? that person ends up in the same place- unsaved.

we will never know what someone really truly believes. and since belief in Christ is the key, and we can't truly know what is in someone else's hearts and minds, why bother trying to judge??

Let me try a real-life explanation...


It's important that we, as Christians, quit saying things that are not biblical.
OSAS is NOT biblical.

Faith = Salvation
No Faith = No Salvation


Easy.

 

[UnderGrace]

I never say they were never saved to begin with

Si capisco!!!

Boy. Listen carefully,,

It's YOU that judge Others.
Those who believe in OSAS judge Others.

Why?

Because if they FALL AWAY..
YOU say they were NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH.

THAT is judging.

Capisci?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All super- smart peopel are.

Jesus said so... But why pay any attention to what JESUS said?



Matthew 25:44-46New American Standard Bible (NASB)

44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [a]take care of You?’

45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”



I do believe the righteous are the ones who did as Jesus instructed.

what makes you think you are more righteous than any one else? Because you obey God?Are you perfect? Do you sin? How can you be righteous if you still sin? As james said, even the least of the sins judged by the law makes you guilty of it all. That makes you unrighteous when you are judged by the law.

DO you not understand Gods requirement?

The jews thought they were righteous also. How did Jesus respond to them? By telling them how unrighteous they are.

Once again, Gods people will obey (not be perfect) because they are saved, not in order to ghet saved.

so no. Jesus does not say what you think he said..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Boy. Listen carefully,,

It's YOU that judge Others.
Those who believe in OSAS judge Others.

Why?

Because if they FALL AWAY..
YOU say they were NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH.

THAT is judging.

Capisci?

Girl, Listen, Listen carefully

I never said they were never saved to begin with, I said we can not judge their salvation. and I have said this over and over again, But as usual you have selective hearing.

How can you sit there and claim to be a woman of God who obeys God yet continue with this sinful attitude of telling me things which are not true?

 

[FranC]

lol, God made the child anology not us, So your argument is with God.

Your child was born of your seed,

We are born of the seed of God, what God calls incoruptable seed, which does not fade away.

What you propose is God will treat his children worse than a human will treat theirs..

the fact is, whether your child sins or not, whether he has faith in your or not. He is still your child period.

I'm sorry EG.
I can't stop laughing.

Here's why...

JESUS used analogies BECAUSE WE NEED THEM.
Because we're sooooo far below God.

What I'm trying to say is this:

GOD IS NOT HUMAN.

WE cannot make analogies--- only HE can.
We make them to try to understand Him better NOT because they're actually true.

You say we are of the seed of God?

That means you have the nature of God...
That means you ARE God.

It's a way to make us understand the non-understandable.

UFFA.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me try a real-life explanation...


It's important that we, as Christians, quit saying things that are not biblical.
OSAS is NOT biblical.

Faith = Salvation
No Faith = No Salvation


Easy.

lol.. Yet OSAS teaches the same thing..

lol.. this is too funny

it does not matter, You claim works are required to maintain salvation. that is faith plus works, so you do not even follow your own guidline.