Not By Works

[FranC]

~Take the popular scripture in Matt. 4:4 "Man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

The Greek word here for "word" is rhema - which is the spoken revealed word of God to us at the time.

When Jesus used this "rhema word" in Matt. 4:4 - He spoke it to the devil who said to Him - "If you are the Son of God...."

Notice that the devil left out what the Father had said to Jesus after He came out of the water. "This is My beloved Son." The enemy doesn't want us to be established in God's love for us.

The "now" word for Jesus was "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased".

Jesus lived from that word from the Father and didn't need to "prove" it to the devil.

Jesus' life came from what the Father said and believed about Him ( So, we too live by this very same principle )


LGF

Did you know that the Word that comes directly from His mouth is likened to a saber sword? Cuts the head of the enemy right off.

The written is likened to a dagger.

Check it out.

Stone,

The above is all true.

BUT, after God told Jesus that He was the beloved Son, Jesus went and DID everything He was supposed to do.

Some here say that it's not necessasy for us to DO anything but only believe.

IF we are disciples of Christ , we must attempt to do as our Master taught.

We must DO what we must do, just as HE did what HE had to do.

No difference.
IF we don't obey Jesus, He is not our Lord.

 

[UnderGrace]

Well you are divorcing right belief/faith from Jesus and from His work and it cannot be done.

Jesus came to this planet to do a Work, one either believes in it and Has faith in its atoning ability or not, however right belief brings salvation.

Just knowing about Jesus and what He did is not enough, it is the personal act of belief IN the completed work of Jesus that brings salvation

Scripture tells us very clearly that it is a personal act of faith that gives us the gift of salvation.

John 3:16
Epehsians 2:8

Then you were right.
We DO NOT agree.

See UG, I believe that person IS saved.

It goes back to what I was saying.
Are we people of the book --- like the Muslims?

Do we live by a book -- or do we live by a person?

Do we trust in the bible to save us
or do we trust in Jesus to save us?

Which is it?

Does correct doctrine save us?
Or does Jesus save us?

Which is it?

 

[LoveGodForever]

I understood what you were saying to Grace.
Of course this is right.
Forget about that and read my post again.
What I'M asking is:
It seems to me that you believe that Sunday keepers might be lost due to the breaking of the 3rd Moral Law " Keep Holy the Sabbath" because it is a sin of "continuance" --- some might call it willful or deliberate sinning.
Let's assume that we were taught incorrectly by the early Church fathers and we SHOULD BE worshipping on Saturday...
Don't you believe God would forgive this as a sin of ignorance?
THIS is what I'm asking.

Yes absolutely FranC,

God does not hold anyone accountable for sins of ignorance until they receive a knowledge of the truth. Jesus tells us in His Word that he has many sheep in other folds (churches) but the time is coming and now is that His true followers will worship Him in spirit and in truth and there shall be one Shepard and one fold under Jesus (the Word)

John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Joh 4:23-24
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Act 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

This is also the call of God to His true people found in Rev 14 and 18. Hope this answers your question.

God bless

 

[Grace777x70]

We can't be left hanging here about what or rather Who is written on our hearts now that we are in Christ.

What is this new law that is written on our hearts seeing as we know it's not the ten commandments in the form given in the Law.

What is this New Covenant that Ezekiel is prophesying about that was to come and now is here manifested in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection?

Remember that the word "law" means "principle, rule, instruction".

What is the Law Written on Our Hearts?

Six-hundred years before Jesus came, the prophet Jeremiah spoke of a new covenant that God would make with his people:


“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.” (Jer 31:33-34)

What is the law that God writes on our hearts and minds? Here are three things it is not:

• It is not the law of Moses. As we saw in the last post, if God wrote the Ten Commandments on our hearts then Jesus died for nothing.

• It is not a new and improved version of the law. It is not the new commands of Jesus or the New Testament. We cannot please God by keeping a new law any more than we could please him by keeping an old one.

• It is not the knowledge of right and wrong that was bestowed upon us – against the Lord’s wishes – by Adam.

So what is this law that the Lord writes on our hearts and minds and embeds in our very being?

It is Christ Himself.

Let’s look at three things the New Testament says about the new law in our hearts.

1. The law of love

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (John 13:34)

Under the old law covenant, love was demanded from you. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.”

But under the new covenant of grace, love is given to you – “As I have loved you” – and out of the overflow of Christ’s measureless love we are able to love others.

How does it happen?

God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. (Rom 5:5)

God abundantly pours his love into our hearts by giving us the Holy Spirit, a.k.a. the Spirit of Christ. Do you see the difference between the old and new?

• Under the old, the law was a rule for weak men to obey. Under the new, the Law is the Spirit of Christ given to us, loving us, and loving others through us.

• Under the old, you loved others because you feared punishment. But under the new, you love because a Lover lives in you and it is his nature to love.

• Under the old, you had to make an effort to obey. But under the new you have to make an effort to disobey. It’s a whole new way of life.

2. The law of the Spirit of life

It’s important that you understand the difference between the old law (a written code you can’t keep) and the new Law (Christ himself, living in you). Try and live by the old laws, as Paul did, and it make you miserable:

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? (Rom 7:24)

Paul couldn’t keep the old law no matter how hard he tried. He needed a new law and that new law is a Who:

Who will rescue me…? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 7:24-25a)

Do you see? The old law is a what; the new law is a Who. The old law ministers condemnation and death (2 Cor 3:7-9), but the new “law of the Spirit gives life” (Rom 8:2).

For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor 3:6)

Who gives life? Not a set of rules, but the Spirit of Christ within you. The new law is a Who.

3. The perfect law of liberty

James wrote of “the perfect law that gives freedom” (Jas 1:25), which can be contrasted with the law of Moses that binds (Rom 7:6).

What is the perfect law that gives freedom? Well, what is the implanted word that can save you (Jas 1:21)?

It’s not the Ten Commandments or the Bible. It’s Jesus, the living Word who sets us free.

The perfect law of liberty describes what Jesus has done (perfectly fulfilled or completed the law) and the fruit he will bear in our lives (liberty) if we trust him.

But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it – not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it – they will be blessed in what they do. (Jas 1:25)

Look into the mirror of Moses’ law and you will be miserable, for it exposes all your faults. But look into the perfect law which is Jesus and you will be blessed, for it reveals His righteousness.

“Don’t just listen but do what it (the perfect law of liberty) says” (Jas 1:22). In other words, allow the Spirit of Christ to convince you that in him you are righteous and holy.

Don’t walk away from the perfect law and forget who you are in Christ. Fix your eyes on Jesus. Look intently with an unveiled face and be transformed into his likeness.

The Law written in our hearts is Jesus

Jeremiah said those who had the new law written on their hearts would know the Lord and would no longer need others to teach them. This is describing your union with Christ. One with the Lord you have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16). His Spirit dwells in you and teaches you all things (John 14:26).

The law of the Lord written into your members is your Father’s spiritual DNA. It is the seed of God birthed in you by the Holy Spirit. It’s Jesus Himself.

How do you know He’s there? Because you are a new creation with new hopes and desires. You no longer want to sin.

Your desire is to love God and others and that desire has nothing to do with old rules written in stone.

Christian, you are who you are because Christ lives in you. He is the new law written, by God, in your heart and mind.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/...on-our-hearts/

 

[dcontroversal]

As usual. No scripture.

Could you post some scripture where Jesus states this is His reason for becoming human?

Thanks.

Could you post some truth on biblical salvation instead of the cafe blend you currently espouse.....?

 

[stonesoffire]

give a bible quote to prove this.

~Mar 1:15　 He said, "The time is now! The kingdom of God is near! Repent, and keep believing the gospel!"
　


Col 1:13
　 God has rescued us from the power of darkness and has brought us into the kingdom of the Son whom he loves

~
Mat 13:18　 "Listen, then, to the parable about the farmer.　



Mat 13:19　 When anyone hears the word about the kingdom yet doesn't understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.　



Mat 13:20　 As for what was sown on the stony ground, this is the person who hears the word and accepts it joyfully at once,
　

Mat 13:21　 but since he doesn't have any root in himself, he lasts for only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes along because of the word, he immediately falls away.　



Mat 13:22　 As for what was sown among the thorn bushes, this is the person who hears the word, but the worries of life and the deceitful pleasures of wealth choke the word so that it can't produce a crop.
　

Mat 13:23　 But as for what was sown on good soil, this is the person who hears the word,

understands it, and produces a crop that yields 100, 60, or 30 times what was sown."


I've now answered your questions with scripture. I'm done royalscot. 　

 

[dcontroversal]

So now we are two bibles long on this thread and still no consensus.

Nor will there ever be.....between those who believe salvation by grace dia faith as opposed to those who trample faith under their feet in favor of that group that says Lord, Lord did we not do many wonderful works in your name...

 

[FranC]

Hi FranC,

This is actually a good question and one that I have considered as well for some time. What it all came down to for me was that the only test in God's Word that determines if someone is truly following God or not is over sin. It is sin that separates us from God. Sin is the transgression of God's 10 commandments and without Jesus we all do it. Jesus wants to free us and save us from our sins (John 8:31-36;John 3:16).

All the Judgements of God from Genesis to Revelations has only ever been about sin. As it was in the days of Noah and Sodom.... As you do your own study of God's Word, you will see there is not one scripture that commands us to keep Sunday as a holy day in place of God's 4th commandment the 7th Day Sabbath.

Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man over the Word of God. Jesus tells us in His own Words that if we follow the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God we are not following Him (Matt 15:3-9). So what does this mean? In times of ignorance God winks at but when we receive a knowledge of the truth God wants us to repent and follow the Word of God (Acts 17:30). The Judgement to come is only over sin and it is the 10 commandments that is the foundation of the Judgement.

God bless

I agree.

I was going to ask you about the two commandments Jesus left us with.
Love God,
Love yourself as your neighbor.

But, of course, if I tell you that, you're going to reply that if we Love God, we will follow His decalogue.

Could you comment on John 20:19 ?

 

[dcontroversal]

and you are one that is anti-gifts and a cessationist

yet for the convenience of having 'more' on what you think is your side, you overlook the glaring errors of spiritual practices

your so called stand for grace is actually a stand for yourself

gather them all up then and build your little fort

Too be honest....nothing you say means much...just another opinion in a sea of opinions....

 

[stonesoffire]

Stone,

The above is all true.

BUT, after God told Jesus that He was the beloved Son, Jesus went and DID everything He was supposed to do.

Some here say that it's not necessasy for us to DO anything but only believe.

IF we are disciples of Christ , we must attempt to do as our Master taught.

We must DO what we must do, just as HE did what HE had to do.

No difference.
IF we don't obey Jesus, He is not our Lord.

I'm only answering for myself. All the others are more capable than I to answer in a theological way. I am more allegorical.

I think you know that now.

Obedience according to the New Covenant is faith or belief in the gospel. God pours His wrath only on those who are in unbelief because He has given His Son for the whole world. Not just the church. Problem is that it is only of benefit to salvation if one believes and receives. At this point am not sure that repentance is even a requirement but not going to try to say it isn't for now. I don't know for sure.

Disobedience now in scripture...NT is unbelief. We are led by Holy Spirit. He may use the written Word or He may speak directly to our Spirit. It's doesn't have to be scripture but it wont be against scripture or truth. This is the way of the body of Christ...not churches...the body. A new living way of continuous fellowship with God through Jesus by Holy Spirit.

All the work of God...we believe what He says.

 

[Ariel82]

I see a couple of persons gave you a like.

So you mean there's a test to see if one is saved or not?

There's some kind of formula that one has to know?

How small is that box you've got God in?

You think He'll stay in there??
I doubt it.

Your first answer to test of a person was saved or not was that they say nice things about Jesus.

That alone isn't a very good test.

Your next statement

"If a person cannot see the spirit of God in another person, it means they are being blocked somehow..."

How is that different from my statement that the test of if someone is saved are not is if they "say nice things about Jesus" rather it is if they have the Holy spirit chastening and teaching them to be true children of God?

yes you too test people even if you pretend that you don't. No one is judging another's salvation.

It's part of becoming mature in Christ to be able to tell the difference between good and evil.

 

[LoveGodForever]

~Mat 4:4　 But he answered, "It is written, 'One must not live on bread alone, but on every word coming out of the mouth of God.'"

Bread can be the written Word of God, and it also can be the broken body of Christ.

If we say it's the written Word? If it comes into our Spirit to lead us..then we do it. But, out of His mouth is prophetic. As Grace says...it's the now Word to fit the situation and is the leading of Holy Spirit such as how the Sons of God are led.

Is this true?

Jesus is the bread of life meaning we must feast on Jesus. This is the same as man does not live my bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God we are to feast on God's Word because Jesus is the Word.

Joh 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2, The same was in the beginning with God.<the Word>
Joh 1:3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.<the Word>
Joh 1:4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men. <the Word>
Joh 1:5, ¶ And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.<the Word>

Joh 1:10, He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11, He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12, But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13, Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The now Word is Jesus he is the Word of God and we are to live by every word. (Matt 4:4)

 

[FranC]

Well you are divorcing right belief/faith from Jesus and from His work and it cannot be done.

Jesus came to this planet to do a Work, one either believes in it and Has faith in its atoning ability or not, however right belief brings salvation.

Just knowing about Jesus and what He did is not enough, it is the personal act of belief IN the completed work of Jesus that brings salvation

Scripture tells us very clearly that it is a personal act of faith that gives us the gift of salvation.

John 3:16
Epehsians 2:8

The person I described DID HAVE FAITH.
Is it not faith in Jesus that saves?

You believe doctrine saves UG.
Many do. But think about it.

If I don't believe in eterna security
and YOU do...
But we're both saved by proper belief in Jesus...

Then we get to the pearly gates and find out that eternal security is WRONG...
Which, by doctrine, makes YOU wrong...

Does that mean you don't get in?
Don't you see how wrong that is?
I thought it was Jesus saving you???

 

[LoveGodForever]

I agree.

I was going to ask you about the two commandments Jesus left us with.
Love God,
Love yourself as your neighbor.
But, of course, if I tell you that, you're going to reply that if we Love God, we will follow His decalogue.
Could you comment on John 20:19 ?

Hi FranC,

Maybe or I could say that at the end of these scriptures Jesus says on these two commandments hang all the Law and the prophets? Did you know Jesus was quoting from the Old Testament scriptures referring to God's Law (Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18). The new covenant is love to God, Jesus saving us and writing His Law in our hearts so that we can love him and follow him.

God bless

 

[Ariel82]

Do YOU know what is a false doctrine?
Why do you not preach against it to some here who have false doctrine?
You believe I HAVE FALSE DOCTRINE?

How could you be sure of anything?

I can be sure of what the Holy spirit tells me is true.


I rather focus on what people have right and what I agree with than what I consider false.

I actually think your doctrine is alright for the most part. The main thing I would disagree with you about is that you like to say works is necessary after salvation.

However, it's not because I don't believe people should do good works but because I believe that people should focus on learning to walk with God first before being put to work. I believe we should listen to God and not others and do things to please God and not because of peer pressure. Also I believe wording it that way can cause misunderstanding to some. However if you are grounded enough in the Bible to fix those misunderstanding as they arise, so in truth I don't really feel the need to correct or chastens you because I trust God will do a better job of it if needed anyway.

You always seem to take everything I say as an attack upon you,so I think it's better if we just end our conversation and talk to other people.

 

[FranC]

Could you post some truth on biblical salvation instead of the cafe blend you currently espouse.....?

I asked you first.

But it's impossible isn't it Dcon?

Know why?

Because, as you very well know, NO SUCH SCRIPTURE EXISTS.

Because JESUS NEVER SAID what YOU say He said.

How about you saying ONLY what you can back up with Jesus' words?

That would be sooooooo nice.

 

[stonesoffire]

Jesus is the bread of life meaning we must feast on Jesus. This is the same as man does not live my bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God we are to feast on God's Word because Jesus is the Word.

Joh 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2, The same was in the beginning with God.<the Word>
Joh 1:3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.<the Word>
Joh 1:4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men. <the Word>
Joh 1:5, ¶ And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.<the Word>

Joh 1:10, He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11, He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12, But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13, Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The now Word is Jesus he is the Word of God and we are to live by every word. (Matt 4:4)

I don't disagree, but am not sure if we are saying the same thing as to how we hear. This is not confrontational. If you don't want to answer, then please don't. But, we hear His Voice. Is this not the way we are led? Whether through the written Word, or in our very own spirit?

Meaning for situations to know what His will is for our personal life. I would also add it would be confirmed through a prophet but this might be a bit much for some. Is my faith.

 

[FranC]

Too be honest....nothing you say means much...just another opinion in a sea of opinions....

The above is for Sevenseas...

Such a nice thing for a Christian to say.

You set such a nice example for Others.
They must be sooooo proud of you...

 

[stonesoffire]

I asked you first.

But it's impossible isn't it Dcon?

Know why?

Because, as you very well know, NO SUCH SCRIPTURE EXISTS.

Because JESUS NEVER SAID what YOU say He said.

How about you saying ONLY what you can back up with Jesus' words?

That would be sooooooo nice.

Wouldn't it help for you to quote what it is that you say he says?

 

[UnderGrace]

That is not what I said.

There is only ONE doctrine/belief that saves and that is the belief in the atoning work of Jesus as a personal Saviour!

God gives the gift salvation because of our faith in the work of Jesus. This IS the one and only doctrine/belief that saves.

After that make sure you are led by the Holy Spirit and a good teacher who rightly divides scripture with humility for other doctrines, but those are not the doctrines that save.

The person I described DID HAVE FAITH.
Is it not faith in Jesus that saves?

You believe doctrine saves UG.
Many do. But think about it.

If I don't believe in eterna security
and YOU do...
But we're both saved by proper belief in Jesus...

Then we get to the pearly gates and find out that eternal security is WRONG...
Which, by doctrine, makes YOU wrong...

Does that mean you don't get in?
Don't you see how wrong that is?
I thought it was Jesus saving you???