Not By Works

[Ariel82]

Gandhi said nice things about Jesus....Muslims say nice things about Jesus...but they don't believe in the Gospel...so I don't see how that can be the test of if someone is saved or not.
.I prefer God's way: if the person is born again with the Holy spirit.

 

[Ariel82]

I know at least one person in this thread who doesn't believe Jesus is God.

Is that person saved or not? Only God truly knows.

I know at one point at my life I didn't believe or understand the Trinity but God showed me His truth on the matter. I trust God to do the same with others concerning most doctrines.

However false doctrines keep people enslaved to Satan's lies and should be challenged and revealed when possible through prayer and scriptures.

 

[UnderGrace]

Well I was on a cruise in Alaska, it was wonderful!! Thanks for asking.

I see what you are saying to an extent ....yet....

I have spoken to Mormons and Jehovahs Witness many times and they always speak so lovingly about Jesus, so while I agree in part, surely doctrine must have a role since we are saved by our right belief?

Hi UnderGrace
Where have you been?

It's very simple really.
When people talk about Jesus, and they're saying nice things about Him, it means they've come in contact with Him
It's easy to tell if they're talking about Him as if He were a person, or as if He's God.

I can't think of one person on this thread that talks about Jesus as a person. Even the ones whom I don't believe have the behavior of a Christian person.

You see, I don't believe a person is saved by doctrine. Just as an example, Dcon believes a person is saved by their doctrine.
He clearly states that if one does not agree with HIM, then they are among the plentious - and we know what that means.

THIS IS WRONG.

If doctrine saves a person, then who of us has any hope of being saved??
Do you know FOR SURE that what YOU believe is correct?
If anyone could be absolutely sure, then why are there so many disagreements?

NO ONE COULD BE SURE of doctrine.
But we could be sure that Jesus became man, taught us how to be Christian, died, resurrected and is at the right hand of the Father ---- which means that He has all authority and is a very good advocate for us.

We could discuss doctrine and disagree with each other,
but we're not allowed to tell a person they're going to hell
or other such unkind things.

JESUS SAVES US.
Not a Church
And not doctrine.

If a person talks about Jesus with love, you could be sure that he's saved.
Who would love Jesus? An unsaved person?

 

[FranC]

Gandhi said nice things about Jesus....Muslims say nice things about Jesus...but they don't believe in the Gospel...so I don't see how that can be the test of if someone is saved or not.
.I prefer God's way: if the person is born again with the Holy spirit.

So. Who on this thread would you say is not saved?

And I don't like to judge who and who isn't...

But just to show you that you're not right.
It's VERY EASY to know if someone KNOWS Jesus.

Ghandi didn't speak about Jesus in that way.
He spokeof Him as being a teacher, an enlightened being.
THERE'S A DIFFERENCE.

You deal with kids and their parents.
How could this be a mystery to you?

 

[FranC]

I know at least one person in this thread who doesn't believe Jesus is God.

Is that person saved or not? Only God truly knows.

I know at one point at my life I didn't believe or understand the Trinity but God showed me His truth on the matter. I trust God to do the same with others concerning most doctrines.

However false doctrines keep people enslaved to Satan's lies and should be challenged and revealed when possible through prayer and scriptures.

So if you didn't understand about the Trinity you would have been lost?

YOU MEAN YOU ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND IT NOW??


You're free to believe what you will.

I was asked question, I gave my answer.
If a person cannot see the spirit of God in another person, it means they are being blocked somehow...

 

[FranC]

Gandhi said nice things about Jesus....Muslims say nice things about Jesus...but they don't believe in the Gospel...so I don't see how that can be the test of if someone is saved or not.
.I prefer God's way: if the person is born again with the Holy spirit.

I see a couple of persons gave you a like.

So you mean there's a test to see if one is saved or not?

There's some kind of formula that one has to know?

How small is that box you've got God in?

You think He'll stay in there??
I doubt it.

 

[FranC]

Well I was on a cruise in Alaska, it was wonderful!! Thanks for asking.

I see what you are saying to an extent ....yet....

I have spoken to Mormons and Jehovahs Witness many times and they always speak so lovingly about Jesus, so while I agree in part, surely doctrine must have a role since we are saved by our right belief?

I'm sorry Under Grace.

I said that WE ARE NOT SAVED BY RIGHT BELIEF.

We are saved by belief in Jesus.

Can't make it any clearer than that.

 

[FranC]

I know at least one person in this thread who doesn't believe Jesus is God.

Is that person saved or not? Only God truly knows.

I know at one point at my life I didn't believe or understand the Trinity but God showed me His truth on the matter. I trust God to do the same with others concerning most doctrines.

However false doctrines keep people enslaved to Satan's lies and should be challenged and revealed when possible through prayer and scriptures.

Do YOU know what is a false doctrine?
Why do you not preach against it to some here who have false doctrine?
You believe I HAVE FALSE DOCTRINE?

How could you be sure of anything?

 

[stonesoffire]

Well I was on a cruise in Alaska, it was wonderful!! Thanks for asking.

I see what you are saying to an extent ....yet....

I have spoken to Mormons and Jehovahs Witness many times and they always speak so lovingly about Jesus, so while I agree in part, surely doctrine must have a role since we are saved by our right belief?

This isn't a challenging question undergrace. Just wondering what scripture you are referring to that says saved by our right belief. I can't think of any but not saying there isn't.

 

[UnderGrace]

I am saying we are saved by the right belief in Jesus and HIS WORK.

We have a different view then. Since I knew and loved Jesus from the time I was young, but it was my right belief in HIS Finished Work that put me in the right standing with God.

It is not doctrine, it is belief and faith (which is belief in action) and the object of our faith is Jesus and this cannot be separated from HIS WORK here on earth.

I'm sorry Under Grace.

I said that WE ARE NOT SAVED BY RIGHT BELIEF.

We are saved by belief in Jesus.

Can't make it any clearer than that.

 

[unobtrusive]

Just want to share something that just happened at our home. It might help explain what I think about works of self, and works of God.

We hire the homeless from time to time to do yard work and things around the house.

Last week we hired a guy to do yard work, and I had an instant guard up in my spirit. Husband (sheesh) did too but he needed someone so brought him home. Later he told me he would never do that again, and I agreed. I felt he could have evil intentions if he ever was desperate.

Yesterday, we had a couple. Very odd but lovable. The guy was African American, and the girl was white. She was very tall, and had blue hair. Also blue arms from the die...hands dark blue. I fell in love with the girl.

My husband wanted to pray for them when they were finished doing what we hired them for, and we did, but I heard the scripture inside about saying God bless and goodbye when someone is in need, and we could supply it.

Long story short, we bought them food, paid them for the work, and I even took her to the store with me. I hope they come back...they attend once in a while, the same church I would if I felt well enough.


*sheesh, said the name.*

It was an awesome day because that really makes my day when we hear and then do. We just did what He asked us to. And it was His revealing need.

"I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive." (Acts 20:35 KJV)

"Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again." (Luke 6:38 KJV)

 

[UnderGrace]

When I say right belief, this belief has to be directed towards Jesus and His saving work on the cross and His victory, a faith/belief in what He has accomplished for each and everyone of us.

It is really just Ephesians 2:8.

This isn't a challenging question undergrace. Just wondering what scripture you are referring to that says saved by our right belief. I can't think of any but not saying there isn't.

 

[stonesoffire]

When I say right belief, this belief has to be directed towards Jesus and His saving work on the cross and His victory, a faith/belief in what He has accomplished for each and everyone of us.

It is really just Ephesians 2:8.

I know you believe this. Wasn't sure if you were being facetious...but I don't know the whole bible like Jack Van Impe. lol

 

[LoveGodForever]

Gandhi said nice things about Jesus....Muslims say nice things about Jesus...but they don't believe in the Gospel...so I don't see how that can be the test of if someone is saved or not.
.I prefer God's way: if the person is born again with the Holy spirit.

How do you know if someone is born again and someone is not?

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
1Jo 3:4, Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jo 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Friends yes some may think I am the bad guy here but I am not. I am here because Jesus loves each one of us and wants all of us to be saved to be with him in His Kingdom. Sin is the transgression of God's Law (10 commandments) and the 7th Day Sabbath is one of them (Ex 20:8-11). To say it is not is not to believe the Word of God. Unbelievers have no part in God's kingdom. Study God's Word for yourself and ask Jesus. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law by those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments. And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith which is by the operation of God in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

 

[UnderGrace]

So you have seen the wind?

[SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 3:8

How do you know if someone is born again and someone is not?

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
1Jo 3:4, Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jo 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Friends yes some may think I am the bad guy here but I am not. I am here because Jesus loves each one of us and wants all of us to be saved to be with him in His Kingdom. Sin is the transgression of God's Law (10 commandments) and the 7th Day Sabbath is one of them (Ex 20:8-11). To say it is not is not to believe the Word of God. Unbelievers have no part in God's kingdom. Study God's Word for yourself and ask Jesus. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law by those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments. And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith which is by the operation of God in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

 

[garee]

i do see some difference.

Armor is to protect us from the enemy. Satan, secular ways, etc.

Our being covered with Jesus is to protect us from GOD.
Jesus is our covering --- not to fight God, but for our own protection.


My two cents...

Jesus protects us from God or protects us as God? How and why would we need protestion from God ?

 

[LoveGodForever]

So you have seen the wind?

[SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 3:8

Hi UG,

Nice to see you again Just as you cannot see the wind you cannot see someone being born again. It is the work of God in those the believe God's Word.

God bless

 

[UnderGrace]

Why do you always say God's Word? Are you speaking about Christ Jesus?

Hi UG,

Nice to see you again Just as you cannot see the wind you cannot see someone being born again. It is the work of God in those the believe God's Word.

God bless

 

[royalscot]

Another way of looking at that is Christ is our armor . We are lovingly commandment to put it on as in once.No man will be found with an armor (righteousness )of his own self .

without full understanding, to the full armour. paul told you to put it on.

so there is a condition , etc

 

[Grace777x70]

This too is a commandment from the Lord. Why don't we do that today for those that do things against the Sabbath day as outlined in the law of Moses? Don't we believe the word of God? Don't we love Jesus? Shouldn't we believe the word of Gog over man's traditions?

Numbers 15:32-36 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

[SUP]33 [/SUP] And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

[SUP]34 [/SUP] And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

[SUP]35 [/SUP] And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

[SUP]36 [/SUP] And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

If we love God - then we should be stoning all those people that are not keeping the Sabbath - just like God commanded in the Old Covenant.

Of course this is all foolishness as we are not in the Old Covenant anymore - we are in the New Covenant.