Not By Works

[Grace777x70]

Notice that Jesus said to these people that were supposedly "doing good works". - He never knew them. Jesus knows His sheep.

Works do not save a person nor do they "keep one saved". Jesus Himself is the Savior. We do not save ourselves.

Believers "do the will of the Father" by believing in Christ's work of grace through faith alone - not by what they do or don't do.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

[SUP]22 [/SUP] "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

[SUP]23 [/SUP] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Lawlessness is seeking to replace God and His activity in Christ with our own activity - no matter how good it appears to be on the outside and "works" are included in this truth.

When we start to live conscious of the Lord as our righteousness, we will begin to manifest outwardly His life of righteousness that is already in us.

From the inside out, genuine good works, obedience, holiness and love will flow unabated out of an authentic relationship with our loving heavenly Father. His life will manifest to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

We are "living epistles" read by all men.

There is a prescribed order of victory in the New Covenant. Until the believer sees his death on the cross with Jesus, he cannot experience Christ as his life as a new man in Christ. - the new creation.

 

[BillG]

Hey peeps.

I is off to bed.

For all of you who are asleep read this tomorrow "His mercies are new every morning and know that God loves you as much as he loves Jesus and he is with you today

For those of us soon to go to bed the same is true.

 

[FranC]

fran, you and I have had our battles, but I am being sincere here- I am sorry to hear you do not have a Church you can attend. down here in the southern u.s., there is a " church around every corner " and sometimes I think we southerners take that for granted,

No problem gb9.

Yes. You do take it for granted. I miss not being able to speak to persons
that believe as I do.
We my not agree on all doctrine, but at least we all believe that Jesus is our Savior
and we know the bible enough to talk about it.

You never appreciate what you have...

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hi Rosemary,


Here's what Jesus said.


Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from ME, you who practice lawlessness.’


So as we move out in the love of the Lord and are walking in the Spirit, we will be led to obey and do the will of our Heavenly Father. Those who said Lord, Lord were not obeying or doing the will of the Father.


When I read the word of God and there's a command to do something, my desire is to do it and I have the assurance I can accomplish what He wants me to do because we have everything we need for life and Godliness in Christ. And we have the Holy Spirit who leads us and guides us into truth. He speaks the words of Jesus which help to transform us into the likeness of our Savior.


And here's how we grow in knowing the will of God.


Romans 12:1-2
Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.


So the more we read God's word the more our minds are renewed and transformed and as that process continues on for the rest of our life, we grow in the knowledge of what is the good acceptable and perfect will of God.

Lovely , thank you Desertsrose ...I was just having some quiet time with the Lord, and i was looking back over these passed 22 months that i have been saved and just amazed of how much He has changed me...I started of telling Him that i felt a bit shaky today and wondering if i was truly surrendering my self to Him, then it was like He asked me to look back over my months to see if i thought i had changed, i could only say " Yes Lord "...Then i dried my tears and felt lifted up by Him, it`s like He confirmed that i am on the right path for today at least, it is only when we look backwards that we see the changes, my mind is for sure being renewed through His word...Sometimes lately i thought i never knew much, but i know more about Him now then i did 22 months ago, in fact when i got saved i only knew of His name and nothing about Him, i remember praying to God and saying " God, i know of your son, but i know nothing about Him,but i wan`t to know you Jesus " , it`s a lovely bumpy journey ...xox...

 

[AllenW]

Cause you ain't my sister.

But you are my brother, and I know you are and I am so glad we know each other.

Oh boy, mushy stuff.
I wasn't counting on that.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Rosemary, I love your gentleness, humility, compassion and love. Your love for God and love for others.
Our Father has saved you for a purpose and you have responded.
Firstly because you know he loves you and as a result he is using you to love others.

You have been set apart to do so.

Continue to let the love of God reign in your heart and let that love in your heart continue to walk with others.

God bless you precious sister.

Dearest Bill...I could not even start this message to you by saying hi, your words have touched me so deeply...Before i responded i thanked God for your kind words that you have given me, i will treasure them all the days of my life...Thank you so very much, in Jesus name Amen...xox...(((\o/)))

 

[FranC]

I found another interpratation of 2 timothy 2.13 hope it helps

2 Timothy 2:13The Message (MSG)

[SUP]8-13 [/SUP]Fix this picture firmly in your mind: Jesus, descended from the line of David, raised from the dead. It’s what you’ve heard from me all along. It’s what I’m sitting in jail for right now—but God’s Word isn’t in jail! That’s why I stick it out here—so that everyone God calls will get in on the salvation of Christ in all its glory. This is a sure thing:
If we die with him, we’ll live with him;
If we stick it out with him, we’ll rule with him;
If we turn our backs on him, he’ll turn his back on us;
If we give up on him, he does not give up—
for there’s no way he can be false to himself.

Hmmmm.

Almost.

 

[UnderGrace]

Amen!

Good works are only Good when they are performed from within Christ, in His Freedom and His Love.

Notice that Jesus said to these people that were supposedly "doing good works". - He never knew them. Jesus knows His sheep.

Works do not save a person nor do they "keep one saved". Jesus Himself is the Savior. We do not save ourselves.

Believers "do the will of the Father" by believing in Christ's work of grace through faith alone - not by what they do or don't do.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

[SUP]22 [/SUP] "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

[SUP]23 [/SUP] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Lawlessness is seeking to replace God and His activity in Christ with our own activity - no matter how good it appears to be on the outside and "works" are included in this truth.

When we start to live conscious of the Lord as our righteousness, we will begin to manifest outwardly His life of righteousness that is already in us.

From the inside out, genuine good works, obedience, holiness and love will flow unabated out of an authentic relationship with our loving heavenly Father. His life will manifest to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

We are "living epistles" read by all men.

There is a prescribed order of victory in the New Covenant. Until the believer sees his death on the cross with Jesus, he cannot experience Christ as his life as a new man in Christ. - the new creation.

 

[stonesoffire]

Just want to share something that just happened at our home. It might help explain what I think about works of self, and works of God.

We hire the homeless from time to time to do yard work and things around the house.

Last week we hired a guy to do yard work, and I had an instant guard up in my spirit. Husband (sheesh) did too but he needed someone so brought him home. Later he told me he would never do that again, and I agreed. I felt he could have evil intentions if he ever was desperate.

Yesterday, we had a couple. Very odd but lovable. The guy was African American, and the girl was white. She was very tall, and had blue hair. Also blue arms from the die...hands dark blue. I fell in love with the girl.

My husband wanted to pray for them when they were finished doing what we hired them for, and we did, but I heard the scripture inside about saying God bless and goodbye when someone is in need, and we could supply it.

Long story short, we bought them food, paid them for the work, and I even took her to the store with me. I hope they come back...they attend once in a while, the same church I would if I felt well enough.


*sheesh, said the name.*

It was an awesome day because that really makes my day when we hear and then do. We just did what He asked us to. And it was His revealing need.

 

[FranC]

Hi Fran...I like looking at the Scriptures you post because it gets me searching, i post what i think then wait for you answer , it`s a good little exercise for me ...Basically i read from 2 Timothy 11-13...It says to me that when Jesus died we died with Him, if we keep on with Him, in Him we will remain in Him, but if we deny Him then He will also deny us , if we become faithless He remains Faithful, He remains the same, it is us who change, He does not walk away from Himself, but we can walk away from Him, He can not deny Himself, that`s what i got from reading 2 Timothy 11-13...

BINGO!

Now. You call yourself a babe in Christ.
I happen to now my chickens.
I told you you're not a babe in Christ, didn't I?

This is EXACTLY what 2 Timothy 2:11-13 means.

2 Timothy 2:12
See also Luke 9:26

New International Version
Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

This is denying Jesus. He IS the Word.
Deny also in the sense that one does not BELIEVE in Him and cannot be saved by Jesus.

So if we deny Him, HE will also deny us.

Verse 13 is mistakenly taken to mean that even if we leave God and become unfaithful to Him, HE will never leave us and become unfaithful to us. This is wrong because it directly conradicts verse 12.

You have explained it perfectly. God will Always be true to HIMSELF. He will never take away from us the opportunity to be saved and to live with Him. He MUST be faithful to HIS own Word.

God and His Word are ONE and cannot be separated.

 

[Desertsrose]

Lovely , thank you Desertsrose ...I was just having some quiet time with the Lord, and i was looking back over these passed 22 months that i have been saved and just amazed of how much He has changed me...I started of telling Him that i felt a bit shaky today and wondering if i was truly surrendering my self to Him, then it was like He asked me to look back over my months to see if i thought i had changed, i could only say " Yes Lord "...Then i dried my tears and felt lifted up by Him, it`s like He confirmed that i am on the right path for today at least, it is only when we look backwards that we see the changes, my mind is for sure being renewed through His word...Sometimes lately i thought i never knew much, but i know more about Him now then i did 22 months ago, in fact when i got saved i only knew of His name and nothing about Him, i remember praying to God and saying " God, i know of your son, but i know nothing about Him,but i wan`t to know you Jesus " , it`s a lovely bumpy journey ...xox...

Me too Rosemary. I knew nothing about God or Jesus, but I heard that Jesus died for my sins and was convicted and repented of my sin. I didn't even know there was a trinity or that Jesus is God then either. I didn't even know John 3:16. I hear that a lot - that everyone knows John 3:16. I do now!!! *smile*

Rosemary, I hear Jesus when you speak. You do have a lovely spirit as Bill said and I see the desire to Love God with all your heart.

At times I get down on myself. But the older in the Lord I get, I realize it's the enemy and I draw near to God and resist the enemy. If I'm hearing for instance, "your not worth anything." I immediately begin to praise and thank the Lord that although I'm not worthy, He is and I'm in Him. I thank Him for clothing me in His righteousness.

If I hear, "look at that sin, you just did it again", I thank the Lord for His forgiveness. If I haven't confessed it I do and then I thank Him for cleansing me from all unrighteousness.

I love Corrie ten Boom and have read many of her books. One of the reasons I love her so much is because she and her family put love into action and saved many Jews from extermination during Hitlers reign of terror.

One of the things she says is that our sins are thrown into the depths of the sea. And God has put a sign big as life out in that ocean of His love that says, "NO FISHING ALLOWED"! *grin* That helps me every time.

I will also at times get God's word and begin reading allowed all the beauty in God's word. I'm saved, I'm redeemed, I'm sanctified and justified in Him. He loves me and lives in me. I walk in Him and He directs my steps. When I mess up, He lets me know and I receive His cleansing power though His word and through His promise of forgiveness when we confess and repent.

Like you, I take a look at my past and I see how much I've grown up too! I'm not what I was and I'm not what I"m gonna be, but I'm what I am today and today He's my Lord and Savior and my Friend. And if I have tomorrow here, He's still my Lord, Savior and Friend and will be .....forever!

And Amen! What a journey.......I wouldn't miss it for anything!!!

 

[FranC]

In in that case you should have asked me what I thought it meant in your post.
You gave the impression I was responding to the bible verse above.

I think we have to look at the preceding verses.


2 Timothy 2:11-13


11 This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.

I note from above it says "If we deny him he will deny us" then "If we are faithless he remains faithful"

I think deny is the opposite of to confess. So it's out of the mouth as such.
I think faithless can rendered as "unbelief or unfaithful"
He remains faithful, faithful to his promises to us his children and those who do not believe in him. He does not lie concerning himself.

Those who deny him

Matthew 10:32-33
Confess Christ Before Men
32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

So he is faithful to his promise
If deny me then you do not want me and therefore I will honour your request.
Depart from me, I never knew you.

He is true to his promise


John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

If a believer stumbles and struggles he is faithful to his children, never will he leave us or forsake us.
There is forgiveness in the name of Jesus, instruction from the Holy Spirit.
A child of God can be unfaithful at times but Jesus said abide in me and you will bear fruit.

Numbers 23:19-20
19 “God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
20 Behold, I have received a command to bless;
He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it.

1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.



Romans 3:3-4
3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written:
“That You may be justified in Your words,
And may overcome when You are judged.”

Perfect.
Thanks Bill.
This scripture is taken out of context many times.

 

[FranC]

Mailmandan is consistent, and so are your straw man arguments.

Also, don't be so naive about the SDA church.

The Truth about the Seventh-day Adventist Church

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Dangers of Seventh-day Adventism

I don't really care about the SDA Church.
What I care about is individuals.

Do you see me asking LoveGodForever if he's saved?
Or HOW he thinks salvation is achieved?

NO.

Because it should be apparent that he is.
That's all I'm interested in.

The churches today are in a terrible mess.
Why should one be any worse than many Others?

(sorry. I don't mean ALL churches)

 

[FranC]

I am confused what exactly would insult God?

My kids try and tie their shoes.,, I help them.,,they run off and tell dad that THEY TIED THEIR SHOES.....Which they did with help.

Neither I nor their dad get mad at that.

I'm the same.d way if people say they did good works and don't always mention how the Holy spirit helped them or they did them for God's glory....I don't believe God would be mad or insulted.

I believe the Holy spirit would be grieved if people don't understand that God will still love them even if they don't try and make a lumpy pinched pot and call it good works. God's love frees us to want to help and love others. However walking with the Holy spirit gives us the fruit and maturity to be able to actually help others.

I'm sorry if I don't understand your post Ariel. It's really late here.

It seems like you think that persons are saying that God is insulted because we forget to mention that the "work" was done by the Holy Spirit.

NO.

What they are saying is that God is INSULTED by the very fact that the "work" was done because GOD already did it all.

I don't know where you live, but I have said before that maybe you don't understand what is happening in the USA.
Sometimes it sounds like you don't.

It's unbelievable to me, that anyone should have some kind of concept as to say that God is insulted if we do good works for Him.

I think God is insulted if we DON'T do good works for Him.

 

[FranC]

Another way of looking at that is Christ is our armor . We are lovingly commandment to put it on as in once.No man will be found with an armor (righteousness )of his own self .

i do see some difference.

Armor is to protect us from the enemy. Satan, secular ways, etc.

Our being covered with Jesus is to protect us from GOD.
Jesus is our covering --- not to fight God, but for our own protection.


My two cents...

 

[AllenW]

I don't really care about the SDA Church.
What I care about is individuals.

Do you see me asking LoveGodForever if he's saved?
Or HOW he thinks salvation is achieved?

NO.

Because it should be apparent that he is.
That's all I'm interested in.

The churches today are in a terrible mess.
Why should one be any worse than many Others?

(sorry. I don't mean ALL churches)

This is a good point.
People criticize certain denominations but never make mention of their own church.
It makes me think those that criticize the most don't go to church at all.

 

[UnderGrace]

How can it be apparent, just in general, not particularly for LoveGodForever?

I don't really care about the SDA Church.
What I care about is individuals.

Do you see me asking LoveGodForever if he's saved?
Or HOW he thinks salvation is achieved?

NO.

Because it should be apparent that he is.
That's all I'm interested in.

The churches today are in a terrible mess.
Why should one be any worse than many Others?

(sorry. I don't mean ALL churches)

 

[FranC]

This is a good point.
People criticize certain denominations but never make mention of their own church.
It makes me think those that criticize the most don't go to church at all.

Of course.
If we all opened our eyes and saw our own churches, we'd see enough problems not to criticize
anybody else's Church.

No one Church is perfect.

And...

There is only ONE BODY of Christ.
WE are that body - no matter what Church we go to.

JESUS SAVES US
NOT A CHURCH
NOT A DOCTRINE...

 

[NoNameMcgee]

: REPOST :
_______________________________________
James 2:18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
_______________________________

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
___________________________________
Ephesians Chapter 2


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
_________________________________________
Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
_____________________________________

Romans 5

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
____________________________________

Galatians 6:9 - And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
________________________________________
Galatians Chapter 5


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
__________________________________
Romans 8:2

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death

_______________________________________

Revelation 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be


_______________________________


why the repost?


Philippians 2:14 - Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

James 5:9 - Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door


1 Corinthians 10:10 - Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.



_________________________________


2 Timothy 2:24-25

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;



may God bless you

 

[FranC]

How can it be apparent, just in general, not particularly for LoveGodForever?

Hi UnderGrace
Where have you been?

It's very simple really.
When people talk about Jesus, and they're saying nice things about Him, it means they've come in contact with Him
It's easy to tell if they're talking about Him as if He were a person, or as if He's God.

I can't think of one person on this thread that talks about Jesus as a person. Even the ones whom I don't believe have the behavior of a Christian person.

You see, I don't believe a person is saved by doctrine. Just as an example, Dcon believes a person is saved by their doctrine.
He clearly states that if one does not agree with HIM, then they are among the plentious - and we know what that means.

THIS IS WRONG.

If doctrine saves a person, then who of us has any hope of being saved??
Do you know FOR SURE that what YOU believe is correct?
If anyone could be absolutely sure, then why are there so many disagreements?

NO ONE COULD BE SURE of doctrine.
But we could be sure that Jesus became man, taught us how to be Christian, died, resurrected and is at the right hand of the Father ---- which means that He has all authority and is a very good advocate for us.

We could discuss doctrine and disagree with each other,
but we're not allowed to tell a person they're going to hell
or other such unkind things.

JESUS SAVES US.
Not a Church
And not doctrine.

If a person talks about Jesus with love, you could be sure that he's saved.
Who would love Jesus? An unsaved person?