The Rapture

[valiant]

Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt(nuclear weapons).
Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The Roman Empire does not lose their dominion until God puts them down,and at the end time,the world will be split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,the ten horns,and the man of sin will come from them

The 4th kingdom,the ten horns,shall devour the whole earth,tread it down,and break it in pieces,and the beast has power over all nations,and kindreds,and tongues,which could of not happened in the past,especially not in the first century..

But in !st century 'the whole earth' meant a different thing. It was the earth as they knew it I.e. the Roman Empire..,

The little horn will pluck up 3 of those 10 horns by the roots,which nuclear weapons could do it.

Why nuclear weapons? It is the rulers that are in mind.

 

[KJV1611]

Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt(nuclear weapons).
Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The Roman Empire does not lose their dominion until God puts them down,and at the end time,the world will be split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,the ten horns,and the man of sin will come from them.

The 4th kingdom,the ten horns,shall devour the whole earth,tread it down,and break it in pieces,and the beast has power over all nations,and kindreds,and tongues,which could of not happened in the past,especially not in the first century.

The little horn will pluck up 3 of those 10 horns by the roots,which nuclear weapons could do it.

I believe the 6th trumpet is the religion of Islam and the world clashing,and the man of sin uses nuclear weapons against the Islamic nations,which is what he wants for they have a concept of a personal God.

After the 6th trumpet the world will not repent of their sins,and turn to God,so God gives them the man of sin to rule over them to deceive all people who do not love God.

You know Matt we can believe anything about those verses that we want to believe and that doesn't change the real meaning of the verses. Those verses are highly symbolic and can only be interpretted from the bible itself.


Study breastplates of fire, jacinth, brimstone, horses and heads of lions if you want to understand the REAL meaning of those verses.

 

[MattforJesus]

But in !st century 'the whole earth' meant a different thing. It was the earth as they knew it I.e. the Roman Empire..,

Why nuclear weapons? It is the rulers that are in mind.

But the 6th trumpet causes one third of the population of the world to perish,which is more than 3 rulers.

The Bible says that the 4th king of Daniel 7 will devour the whole earth,tread it down,and break it in pieces.

The beast has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues,and all that dwell upon earth shall worship the beast.

The whole earth shall be gathered against Judah,and Jerusalem.

God will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle,for God turned them to the truth the Jesus is their Messiah,and then will go forth and fight those nations,as He did in the day of battle,and will punish the world for their sins,and iniquities,against Him,and those that are left have to go up year after year to worship the King at Jerusalem,which the LORD shall be king over all the earth,and there shall be one LORD,and His name one.

The saints shall be hated of all nations.

The Gospel must be preached in to all the world,as a witness to all nations,and then the end shall come,which comes the end when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to God.

The saints shall know of pestilences,famines,and earthquakes,that happen on different places on earth,and hear of wars and rumors of wars,and kingdom against kingdom,and nation against nation,which can only be known by technology to be able to observe the world,and what is going on.

It is talking of the whole world,the time for God to end this sin business on earth,and if it is only the Roman Empire,then why does it say all the world,all nations,and kindreds,and tongues,and all the earth against Judah,Jerusalem.

The first attack on Jerusalem,because they rejected Christ.

The second attack on Jerusalem,because they accepted Christ.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hi MattforJesus,

Sorry for highjacking your post here, but I've got KJV1611 on ignore, with the rest of the false teachers.

Originally Posted by KJV1611

My point is that literal rivers don't bind angels, the angels weren't in the literal Euphrates river, they were bound in the spiritual Euphrates.... the same spiritual Euphrates that dried up.

The book of Revelation IS NOT literal, the fires are not literal the sun and moon going dark are not literal. I think you agree with this so I don't understand why you would want to make the Euphrates a literal river.

KJV1611 is more deceived than I thought! The book of Revelation should be read in the literal sense until a symbolic interpretation is obvious. Your belief that the book of Revelation is not literal, is exactly why you fail in your interpretation of it KJV1611. Your assumption on this is based solely on conjecture, as there is no scriptural bases to interpret Revelation in the spiritual sense.

"Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates"

The scripture does not say that the Euphrates is binding the angels, so already you are not paying attention to the details. What the scripture does imply is that these four angels are bound at the Euphrates river, not bound by it. Therefore, since the scripture states that they were kept there for that very hour, day and month for the purpose of killing a third of mankind and will be released at that time, there is no reason to apply a spiritual or symbolic interpretation. This is why you guys continue to fail at interpreting end-time events, because you have been deceived into believing that Revelation is not meant to be interpreted literally and you therefore distort the meaning.

By the way, the Euphrates hasn't been dried up yet, as it is an event that will take place to make way for the kings of the east to cross over at the time when all of the nations will be gathered at Armageddon, which isn't until Christ returns to the earth to end the age.

the fires are not literal the sun and moon going dark are not literal

All of the above are to be interpreted literally. These events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments is how God is going to pour out his wrath upon the inhabitants of the earth, exactly the way John described them. By making these events spiritual, you do away with their literal meanings and God's wrath.

 

[KJV1611]

Hi MattforJesus,

Sorry for highjacking your post here, but I've got KJV1611 on ignore, with the rest of the false teachers.



KJV1611 is more deceived than I thought! The book of Revelation should be read in the literal sense until a symbolic interpretation is obvious. Your belief that the book of Revelation is not literal, is exactly why you fail in your interpretation of it KJV1611. Your assumption on this is based solely on conjecture, as there is no scriptural bases to interpret Revelation in the spiritual sense.

"Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates"

The scripture does not say that the Euphrates is binding the angels, so already you are not paying attention to the details. What the scripture does imply is that these four angels are bound at the Euphrates river, not bound by it. Therefore, since the scripture states that they were kept there for that very hour, day and month for the purpose of killing a third of mankind and will be released at that time, there is no reason to apply a spiritual or symbolic interpretation. This is why you guys continue to fail at interpreting end-time events, because you have been deceived into believing that Revelation is not meant to be interpreted literally and you therefore distort the meaning.

By the way, the Euphrates hasn't been dried up yet, as it is an event that will take place to make way for the kings of the east to cross over at the time when all of the nations will be gathered at Armageddon, which isn't until Christ returns to the earth to end the age.



All of the above are to be interpreted literally. These events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments is how God is going to pour out his wrath upon the inhabitants of the earth, exactly the way John described them. By making these events spiritual, you do away with their literal meanings and God's wrath.

That's not very nice of you to call people false teachers especially when your one of the biggest scripture twisters on this thread.

Here is my scriptural basis for not taking the book literally.

Revelation 1:1 KJV
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

 

[Ahwatukee]

Originally Posted by valiant

But in !st century 'the whole earth' meant a different thing. It was the earth as they knew it I.e. the Roman Empire..,

What Valiant doesn't understand is that, God is the author and John is just writing what he sees and hears. Therefore, John is not influencing Revelation with 1st thinking. The events of wrath in Revelation were written regarding end-time events that will affect the entire world and not just the area of Israel. A third of the population would be over all the earth. When the 4th angel pours out his bowl on the sun so that it scorches the inhabitants of the earth, it will affect the entire earth and not just Israel.

These people have been deceived by listening to false teachings. Valiant, don't you think that God knows that the earth is round and that there are people living in all four corners of the earth?

The wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will affect all of the inhabitants of the entire earth.

 

[KJV1611]

Here we go again with the Left Behind novel.

 

[RedeemedGift]

Just as God literally created the world in 6 days, He will also destroy the world and make it His footstool through Christ. Genesis to Revelation. An inconsistent and selective method of interpretation is not rightly dividing the word. Let the Bible interpret itself, follow the examples it shows. See how the Jewish Messiah and Jewish Apostles interpreted Old Testament prophecy in the New Testament, how symbolism is used to illustrate literal truths.

 

[Locutus]

No matter how many years they were given to change their position, the law ended with death or resurrection of Christ... this is when the new heaven and new earth came. 40 years of extended grace did not extend the old covenant and it wasn't the time when the new heaven and new earth came.

You can't have it both ways 1812 - either the law ended including the "jots and tittles" or it did not - to claim as you are doing that "jots and tittles" remain till "till all be fulfilled" is to try and dichotomize one against the other.

And you are ignoring what Hebrews says about the Law being on the verge of vanishing 30 or so years later when the book was written.

What you are claiming is in direct contradiction to this:

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

I don't see how you can justify your position.

 

[Locutus]

Here we go again with the Left Behind novel.

What do you expect from a right behind..

 

[Ahwatukee]

Just as God literally created the world in 6 days, He will also destroy the world and make it His footstool through Christ. Genesis to Revelation. An inconsistent and selective method of interpretation is not rightly dividing the word. Let the Bible interpret itself, follow the examples it shows. See how the Jewish Messiah and Jewish Apostles interpreted Old Testament prophecy in the New Testament, how symbolism is used to illustrate literal truths.

Very true! All of the prophesies regarding Jesus were fulfilled literally. Therefore, there is no reason to believe that the prophesies still come will not also be literally fulfilled.

If the literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense.

The wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are quickly coming upon this earth, but first the church must be gathered, then the wrath.

 

[Locutus]

My point is that literal rivers don't bind angels, the angels weren't in the literal Euphrates river, they were bound in the spiritual Euphrates.... the same spiritual Euphrates that dried up.

The book of Revelation IS NOT literal, the fires are not literal the sun and moon going dark are not literal. I think you agree with this so I don't understand why you would want to make the Euphrates a literal river.

The book is very literal, the symbols need to be understood in way the OT prophets spoke using metaphor and figures of speech.

The sun and the moon are figures, they represent a physical reality:


"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:"

The expression is symbolic, but underneath the symbol is reality.


If we look in scripture for like symbols we find the following from Joseph’s dream:

(Gen 37:9 -10 KJV) And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father(Jacob renamed Israel), and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

As can be seen from the above the Sun represents Israel - Jacob (collectively) the stars represent the 11 tribes (brothers of Joseph) Joseph being the 12th star.

She (Israel) is said to be "travailing in birth" while awaiting the Messiah Jesus.

Travail in birth is used in scripture to represent a struggle or distress - (Gal 4:19 KJV)…. My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

(Rev 12:5 KJV) And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

(She) Israel brought forth a man child Jesus born of Mary. The "caught up to God" is most probably a reference to Jesus’ resurrection and ascension ((Col 3:1 KJV) …. where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.)

(Rev 12:13 KJV) And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The woman here is not a single person – "she" represents the spiritual/remnant Israel of faith collectively.

 

[KJV1611]

You can't have it both ways 1812 - either the law ended including the "jots and tittles" or it did not - to claim as you are doing that "jots and tittles" remain till "till all be fulfilled" is to try and dichotomize one against the other.

And you are ignoring what Hebrews says about the Law being on the verge of vanishing 30 or so years later when the book was written.

What you are claiming is in direct contradiction to this:

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

I don't see how you can justify your position.

I'm not having two ways Loco. The law (thou shalt not) ended with Christ, that doesn't mean all the prophecy that the law foreshadowed had been fulfilled.

I'm assuming that you believe "is ready to vanish away" means that the law didn't end with Christ, but that would directly contradict Romans 10:4.

Romans 10:4 KJV
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I see it as the writer of Hebrews is saying something that is old and rotten is ready to be done away with. Romans tells us it was done away with in Christ... not 40 years after Christ.

 

[KJV1611]

The book is very literal, the symbols need to be understood in way the OT prophets spoke using metaphor and figures of speech.

The sun and the moon are figures, they represent a physical reality:


"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:"

The expression is symbolic, but underneath the symbol is reality.


If we look in scripture for like symbols we find the following from Joseph’s dream:

(Gen 37:9 -10 KJV) And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father(Jacob renamed Israel), and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

As can be seen from the above the Sun represents Israel - Jacob (collectively) the stars represent the 11 tribes (brothers of Joseph) Joseph being the 12th star.

She (Israel) is said to be "travailing in birth" while awaiting the Messiah Jesus.

Travail in birth is used in scripture to represent a struggle or distress - (Gal 4:19 KJV)…. My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

(Rev 12:5 KJV) And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

(She) Israel brought forth a man child Jesus born of Mary. The "caught up to God" is most probably a reference to Jesus’ resurrection and ascension ((Col 3:1 KJV) …. where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.)

(Rev 12:13 KJV) And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The woman here is not a single person – "she" represents the spiritual/remnant Israel of faith collectively.

I agree with all of that except that the woman with the moon UNDER her feet is heavenly Jerusalem and not the whore earthly Jerusalem.

"Under her feet" is a symbol.. anyone standing on top of something has dominion over it. But yes I agree, we literally interpret everything that happens to the symbols.

 

[MattforJesus]

Jesus came to fulfill the law,which He fulfilled the Old Testament by being a sinless man,the perfect saint,the perfect High Priest,the perfect sacrifice,the perfect Mediator,and whatever else He had to fulfill,but He did not fulfill the perfect King while on earth.

Jesus said till heaven and earth pass,nothing of the law shall pass away,until all be fulfilled.

Jesus has not fulfilled the perfect King on earth yet,so the Old Testament is not completely fulfilled.

That is the millennial reign of Christ on earth,when He fulfills the perfect King on earth,and when the 1000 years are over,the earth shall pass away,and shall not be remembered,or come to mind.

Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[KJV1611]

Jesus came to fulfill the law,which He fulfilled the Old Testament by being a sinless man,the perfect saint,the perfect High Priest,the perfect sacrifice,the perfect Mediator,and whatever else He had to fulfill,but He did not fulfill the perfect King while on earth.

Jesus said till heaven and earth pass,nothing of the law shall pass away,until all be fulfilled.

Jesus has not fulfilled the perfect King on earth yet,so the Old Testament is not completely fulfilled.

That is the millennial reign of Christ on earth,when He fulfills the perfect King on earth,and when the 1000 years are over,the earth shall pass away,and shall not be remembered,or come to mind.

Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Already done at the first coming Matt. The simplest easiest verse to prove that is this:

Luke 4:18 KJV
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

The wolf and lamb and all the rest are symbolic of things in the kingdom. His holy mountain is heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[Locutus]

I'm not having two ways Loco. The law (thou shalt not) ended with Christ, that doesn't mean all the prophecy that the law foreshadowed had been fulfilled.

I'm assuming that you believe "is ready to vanish away" means that the law didn't end with Christ, but that would directly contradict Romans 10:4.

Romans 10:4 KJV
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I see it as the writer of Hebrews is saying something that is old and rotten is ready to be done away with. Romans tells us it was done away with in Christ... not 40 years after Christ.

You are assuming wrong here 1776 - there is no separating the "thou shalt nots" and from the whole law (which includes the jots and tittles):

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Paul stated that Christians were dead to the law, the whole law, he did not say it was done away in Christ. You can't be dead to something that no longer exists according to your logic.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

The law was still active when Paul wrote, otherwise in Galatians he would not be telling them they had to "do the whole law" if they became circumcised.

 

[valiant]

What Valiant doesn't understand is that, God is the author and John is just writing what he sees and hears. Therefore, John is not influencing Revelation with 1st thinking.

But that is Ahwatukee's thinking not God thinking. God works through men as they are and allows them to use their own terminology.(Rom 1.8)

The events of wrath in Revelation were written regarding end-time events that will affect the entire world and not just the area of Israel.

The events of wrath in Revelation accept that God's wrath has been levelled at men through all ages (Rom 1.18). They were written to those who would came 'after these things' that is the church in 1st century. Ahwatukee[s interpretation is based on the writings of RC scholars who sought to divert attention from their own false church.

They affected the Roman area and surrounding nations (the world- Rom 1.8), not the whole world as we know it.

A third of the population would be over all the earth. When the 4th angel pours out his bowl on the sun so that it scorches the inhabitants of the earth, it will affect the entire earth and not just Israel.

So says Ahwatukee, not God. It was 1/3 of the 'world' of that day.

These people have been deceived by listening to false teachings.

Actually that is true of all who interpret with modern theories based on the RC theologians who invented the seven year tribulation so close to Ahwatukee's heart,.

Valiant, don't you think that God knows that the earth is round and that there are people living in all four corners of the earth?

He also knows that the earth does not have corners, but He allows you to express it that way. He allowed men to use the language of their day.

The wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will affect all of the inhabitants of the entire earth.

The wrath of God has been around for 2000 years (Rom 1.18), The seals, trumpets and vials have mainly already happened.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by KJV1611

I'm not having two ways Loco. The law (thou shalt not) ended with Christ, that doesn't mean all the prophecy that the law foreshadowed had been fulfilled.

I'm assuming that you believe "is ready to vanish away" means that the law didn't end with Christ, but that would directly contradict Romans 10:4.

Romans 10:4 KJV
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I see it as the writer of Hebrews is saying something that is old and rotten is ready to be done away with. Romans tells us it was done away with in Christ... not 40 years after Christ

God did not mean the finish (the end) of the law but the final result (the end) of the law.

 

[J7]

No. It was the Jews, not all the tribes, who observed the feasts

Which country had 12 tribes scattered over all the nations? These tribes would return to Jerusalem from all over (every country) to celebrate the important feasts like Passover, Tabernacles, and Unleavened Bread. Jerusalem's population would swell to three times normal during these periods. Amazing how God gathers all the bad eggs into one "judgment basket."

Just look at Acts 2: [SUP]5 [/SUP]And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.