Sabbath

[Rosemaryx]

Hi MatterforJesus...This would be a great post in the bdf...Great post and thank you ...xox...

Sorry i mean in the thread about saved and works...Dcons thread...xox...

 

[Enow]

I know of the Holy Spirit moving on a person to cause that person to enter a truck with a stranger, me, ad hear what the Spirit had to say to her.

I too had been moved by the Holy Spirit to top the truck at a pull-over area and wait for someone to come in a cr and get out.

All seemed perfectly normal as it occurreed, but it was the Holy Spirit using willing vessels.

I do not know anyone who knows the Holy Spirit to the depths of being able to say what He will or will not do......God bless willing vessels in Christ, amen.

I know that the Holy Spirit indwells believers as promised at their salvation and any supernatural phenomenon where a saved believer claims that the Holy Spirit came over them, filling them, or whatever from outside "again"....that was not the Holy Spirit that came unto them again. That was the spirit of the antichrist we were warned about in not believing every spirit.

Willing vessels can also be applied towards new age mentality of receiving spirits again and again and again, but the real Holy Spirit has been in that saved believer since his or her salvation. You cannot receive Him again when He is already in you; Those that claim otherwise, do so in hypocrisy and thus believing every spirit that comes over them to be of God when it is actually not of Him at all.

The indwelling Holy Spirit is still pointing the saved believer towards Jesus Christ; not towards Himself. Jesus Christ, teh Son of God, is the Bridegroom and we are to be specifically His disciples as led by the Spirit to be as the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.

So while everybody keeps talking about the Holy Spirit and looking for Him to come & fall on them again and again and again, they do so in denial of the promise that comes at our salvation which is the permanently indwelling Holy Ghost for Jesus Christ to keep His promise that He is with us always for which is why He is the Bridegroom as well as our personal Good Shepherd Whom guides us through the Holy Spirit within us.

The Spirit of Christ may share the words of Christ to us, but our response and focus is back to the One actually speaking to us... the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and that is Whom our focus should be on that the Holy Spirit is still pointing us to relate to God through in living this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

It is seducing spirits or the spirits of the antichrist that would try to draw the focus and the spotlight away from the Son to lure believers into chasing after them to receive after a sign... even a sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation, because that kind of supernatural tongue has been in the world before Pentecost came with God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

So Who are you talking about? Who are you testifying of in seeking the glory of? Since the Holy Spirit is sent to testify of the Son ( John 15:26 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) ... how can He do that except through us ( John 15:27 ) ?

Those led by the Spirit of Christ will be talking about Jesus Christ & Him crucified in seeking His glory as led by the Spirit of Christ to do.

Talking about the Holy Spirit, in seeking the glory of the Holy Spirit, is not what the Holy Spirit will lead any believer to do. Only seducing spirits and the spirit of error would never honor the Son Whom is the Christ. That is what the spirit of the antichrist does. The Spirit of Christ would never do that.. not for a moment.

So heed the scripture.. honor the Son because that is the only way to honor the Father. There is no other way. The moment you stop honoring the Son, you are no longer honoring the Father. Honoring the Holy Spirit is NOT honoring the Father and the Holy Spirit would not lead any believer to do that but to honor the Son, in testifying of Him in seeking His glory and by doing so, honor & glorify God the Father.

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

John 5:[SUP]22 [/SUP]For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:[SUP]23 [/SUP]That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
1 Corinthians 2:[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

John 15:[SUP]26 [/SUP]But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:...

John 16:[SUP]14[/SUP]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 15:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 7:[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

John 13:[SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.[SUP] 32 [/SUP]If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

So ask yourself.. Who would the Holy Spirit lead you to testify of in seeking the glory of today and everyday, even in worship?

 

[ladd]

the labor is in their belief, unbelief shuts out them from that rest he is talking to the Messianic Hebrews. with out faith to the end then there is no faith. is this not why we sinners that believe and trust in Christ renew our self dally to labor in the faith? to grow even more in faith? To day we see much attempt to watering down faith in Christ along with the Word of God. many have only chosen to believe only some of the bible are fallen into false teachings about Christ, must we labor to to keep our faith true? what % of Christ do you believe? are How much % does it take to become a Child of the Lord and fall into His rest?

 

[JaumeJ]

When anyone who knows Jesus Christ is wanted by God for any service and that peron is a willing vessel, that person will be used.

It is never on demand, and when it occurs the knowledge of itis notin advance, at least as far as I have experienced.

It is never perceived as anything miraculous but seems quite normal during th occurance. It is only after that the person used willingly realizes God has worked through him r her.

It is wonderful.........just wonderful, and all glory i God's not the creature¡s....

 

[Dan_473]

Jesus kept the Sabbath,

he also celebrated the feast of tabernacles in Jerusalem


if you keep one law, you must keep them all.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Sorry i mean in the thread about saved and works...Dcons thread...xox...

Again i have to come back and correct my post...I mean Dcons thread called Not by works ...xox...

 

[JaumeJ]

Hello Dan,

I hope and pray you are keeping in heart, mind and soul the teachings of Jesus Christ throughout His blessed mssion on the law.

Equally I hope you realize the difference between the laws fulfilled taking away their sting, death, and the laws remaing according mercy faith and justice as taught in the Gospel....

Those latter are not the 613 laws but less than 100 , and actually any Christian truly in Christ knows what they are and knows not to break them.

Jesus kept the Sabbath,

he also celebrated the feast of tabernacles in Jerusalem


if you keep one law, you must keep them all.

 

[Dan_473]

Hello Dan,

I hope and pray you are keeping in heart, mind and soul the teachings of Jesus Christ throughout His blessed mssion on the law.

Equally I hope you realize the difference between the laws fulfilled taking away their sting, death, and the laws remaing according mercy faith and justice as taught in the Gospel....

Those latter are not the 613 laws but less than 100 , and actually any Christian truly in Christ knows what they are and knows not to break them.

has God sent us a prophet to tell us which laws we still keep?


there is no waiver in the law for doing part.

DEUTERONOMY 8:1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do.





all the law is fulfilled

GALATIANS 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled.

 

[Enow]

Faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,after we receive the Spirit.

James use of "faith without works" was about a church professing faith in God's Providence to the deparing poor that He would provide for the poor that were departing from the church after service without the church meeting any of the immediate needs of the poor from the bounty collected at church. This was never about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation because that is without works. Faith in God's Providence was what James was talking about; not faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. It is in the eyes of the poor that the church's faith in God's Providence was dead which is why the church's faith in God's Providence will not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor when the church fails to lead by example.

Both Paul & James share the right hand of fellowship & the same concern for the poor.

Galatians 2:[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

To have the right hands of fellowship, they had to speak the same thing and hold to the same judgment and the same gospel as Paul testified in the prior chapter of that same epistle to the Galatians.

Galatians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.[SUP]9 [/SUP]As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

And even to the Corinthians...

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

So when Paul said this about Abraham's justification was NOT by works but by believing in Him....

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?[SUP] 2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Look at what Paul had written earlier...

Romans 3:[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

So James was not talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as needing works to follow for justification. James was addressing the church abuse and neglect of the poor by their using the verbalization of their faith in God's Providence in getting out of helping the poor. James reference to Abraham and Issac was a reference to the famous story of God's Providence in how Abraham had faith in God to provide a sacrifice for the altar to spare his son, Isaac. The name of that place is signifying that godly lesson... Jehovah Jireh... the Lord provides.... so James was talking about Abraham's faith in God's Providence to address the specific abuse & neglect of the poor by the church telling the poor to have faith in God to provide by saying "be warmed and be filled.." as if by voicing their faith in His Providence to the departing poor, it will happen so that the church will be excused from helping the poor from the bounty collected after church service.

Paul clears the air again in Titus...separating works that follow has nothing to do with salvation, but it is profitable unto men that do them in maintaining good works.

Titus 3:[SUP]4 [/SUP]But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;[SUP] 7 [/SUP]That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.[SUP]8 [/SUP]This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

I know that believers are "programmed" into reading James only one way and not taking in context of what that kind of faith James was addressing in rebuking the church for doing to the poor... but I leave it to God to cause the increase as Paul's writings makes it clear for him to have that right hand of fellowship with James that faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is without works.... even without the works that follow after salvation.

Think about it. You preach to a sinner dying about the Good News in Christ.. and he believes but dies soon after. Where is his work that followed him for justification? So then it is by believing in Him is how anyone is justified.

Those who contend that faith without works in the Book of James also applies to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, cannot explain away what Paul had clearly refuted for any believer to be applying James' faith without works towards salvation when James was only addressing the abuse by the church in their profession of faith in God's Providence to the poor in getting out of helping the poor.

Sorry for going off topic, but you are right in that we are not controlled by the Holy Spirit to such a point that we lose self control...for the reason we are warned not to quench the Spirit ( 1 Thessalonians 5:19 ), and the spirits of the prophet are subject to the prophets ( 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 ), meaning no loss of self control which happens to be one of the fruits of the Spirit called temperance ( Galatians 5:22-23 ). That is why we are "led" by the Spirit rather than "controlled" by the Spirit for which we shall be held accountable for what we sow towards... the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit... and applying faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ) and finishing His work in us ( Philippians 1:6-11 ) is how the just shall live by faith in sowing to the fruits of the Spirit & not doing His work by the deeds of the law ( Galatians 2:19-21 & Galatians 5:1 & 5 KJV ).

[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]

 

[Dan_473]

James use of "faith without works" was about a church professing faith in God's Providence to the deparing poor that He would provide for the poor that were departing from the church after service without the church meeting any of the immediate needs of the poor from the bounty collected at church. This was never about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation because that is without works. Faith in God's Providence was what James was talking about; not faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. It is in the eyes of the poor that the church's faith in God's Providence was dead which is why the church's faith in God's Providence will not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor when the church fails to lead by example.

Both Paul & James share the right hand of fellowship & the same concern for the poor.

Galatians 2:[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

To have the right hands of fellowship, they had to speak the same thing and hold to the same judgment and the same gospel as Paul testified in the prior chapter of that same epistle to the Galatians.

Galatians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.[SUP]9 [/SUP]As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

And even to the Corinthians...

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

So when Paul said this about Abraham's justification was NOT by works but by believing in Him....

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?[SUP] 2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Look at what Paul had written earlier...

Romans 3:[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

So James was not talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as needing works to follow for justification. James was addressing the church abuse and neglect of the poor by their using the verbalization of their faith in God's Providence in getting out of helping the poor. James reference to Abraham and Issac was a reference to the famous story of God's Providence in how Abraham had faith in God to provide a sacrifice for the altar to spare his son, Isaac. The name of that place is signifying that godly lesson... Jehovah Jireh... the Lord provides.... so James was talking about Abraham's faith in God's Providence to address the specific abuse & neglect of the poor by the church telling the poor to have faith in God to provide by saying "be warmed and be filled.." as if by voicing their faith in His Providence to the departing poor, it will happen so that the church will be excused from helping the poor from the bounty collected after church service.

Paul clears the air again in Titus...separating works that follow has nothing to do with salvation, but it is profitable unto men that do them in maintaining good works.

Titus 3:[SUP]4 [/SUP]But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;[SUP] 7 [/SUP]That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.[SUP]8 [/SUP]This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

I know that believers are "programmed" into reading James only one way and not taking in context of what that kind of faith James was addressing in rebuking the church for doing to the poor... but I leave it to God to cause the increase as Paul's writings makes it clear for him to have that right hand of fellowship with James that faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is without works.... even without the works that follow after salvation.

Think about it. You preach to a sinner dying about the Good News in Christ.. and he believes but dies soon after. Where is his work that followed him for justification? So then it is by believing in Him is how anyone is justified.

Those who contend that faith without works in the Book of James also applies to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, cannot explain away what Paul had clearly refuted for any believer to be applying James' faith without works towards salvation when James was only addressing the abuse by the church in their profession of faith in God's Providence to the poor in getting out of helping the poor.

Sorry for going off topic, but you are right in that we are not controlled by the Holy Spirit to such a point that we lose self control...for the reason we are warned not to quench the Spirit ( 1 Thessalonians 5:19 ), and the spirits of the prophet are subject to the prophets ( 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 ), meaning no loss of self control which happens to be one of the fruits of the Spirit called temperance ( Galatians 5:22-23 ). That is why we are "led" by the Spirit rather than "controlled" by the Spirit for which we shall be held accountable for what we sow towards... the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit... and applying faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ) and finishing His work in us ( Philippians 1:6-11 ) is how the just shall live by faith in sowing to the fruits of the Spirit & not doing His work by the deeds of the law ( Galatians 2:19-21 & Galatians 5:1 & 5 KJV ).

[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]

Wow, never heard it explained that way, but it makes loads of sense!

 

[JaumeJ]

God told Moses that He would be sending a prophet, yes, and the He said He would be like Moses. This was referring to Jesus christ, and just as Moses gaqve the law as given him

Jesus Christ taught all in His gospel how the law is to be viewed after Him.,

Jesus Christ was perfect for you and for me, yet we are to imitate Him as best we are able.

He was never under the law as many try to say. No, He was perfect in obedience. He fulfileld the law, completed it in His acctions and teaching.

Again, He was perfect, we are not, but we do imitate HIm by obeying God as we know we should.

No one can say we are not to obey God. We are not under the law, but we imitate and obey just as Jesus did while not having the guilt of our transgression held against su...because of the Blood of Jesus Christ.

As long as we have parents we are to respect ad honor them, we are not to steal, we are t love our enemies, we are to turn the other cheek,, we are to always demonstrate justice when able, and always show mercy.

All of the above we deo in faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus has told us to obey the commandments and never to diminish the law, yet many disobey him first in denying He said this, and second by advocating not obeying what we know is good.

We earn nothing by doing what is our due, but our Father loves us when we do........

has God sent us a prophet to tell us which laws we still keep?


there is no waiver in the law for doing part.

DEUTERONOMY 8:1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do.





all the law is fulfilled

GALATIANS 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled.

 

[followjesus]

Hi MattforJesus,

This one is just for you. You must of missed it as you did not reply to it. I hope this will help you in the future.

Col 2:14-17,
[SUP]14[/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [SUP]15[/SUP], And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. [SUP]16[/SUP] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath day(s): [SUP]17[/SUP], which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
The context is verse 14 which is the blotting out of the handwriting of ordinances to the cross. What is the handwriting of ordinancesthat were nailed to the cross? The Greek work used here is δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree; V16 Omit “the”not used in the Greek; Sabbath days is plural; Sabbaton meaning cease from secular work; rest)

Scripture points:

· Blotting out or nailing the handwriting of ordinances to the cross (v14)
· The cross triumphing over principalities and powers (v 15)
· No one to Judge you in meat and drink, holy days, new moon of the sabbath day(s) (v16)
· Which are a Shadow of things to come (v17)

So it is clear the context of Col 2:16-17 is the completion of the civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws of Moses which the writer says is finished and nailed to the cross.

Here is the actual Greek to English translation of the Col 2:16-17 verses from the interlinear:

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Not therefore anyone you let judge in regards to food or in regards to drink or in regards to a feast (or festival) or a new moon or a Sabbath (plural).[SUP] 17[/SUP] which are a shadow of things coming but body of Christ.

The word rendered "holy-day" - ἑορτὴ heortē - in the Greek means a "feast" or "festival;"
Now, notice the key context within Col 2:16-17; No one is to judge you in regards to meat or drink, a feast (festival), or of the New Moon or of sabbath(s).

The Greek word for sabbath used G4521; σάββατο; sabbaton which means to cease from secular labor, stop work, rest.

Context within Col 2:16-17:
(1) meat or drink
(2) feast or festival
(3) new moons
(4) sabbath(s)

So the overall context of Col 2:14-17 is in judging in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses (v 14)

Col 2 is talking about the ceremonial laws from Moses that referred to the annual festivals of Lev 23; Deut 10; Num 27 and 28. Now let’s have a look at the Old Testament scriptures to see what Col 2 is talking about. Remember the overall context is in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses that were completed and nailed to the cross. If we can find references to the above context it will help us to understand what Col 2:14-17 is talking about because these are Shadows that pointed to Jesus.

Old Testament references to Col 2:14-17; Line upon Line Precept upon Precept:

Col 2:16-17,
Let no man therefore judge you in (1) meat, or in drink, or in respect of an (2) feast, or of the (3) new moon, or of the (4) sabbath(s): Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Eze 45:17-21,
It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the (1) burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the (2) feasts, the (3) new moons, and the (4) Sabbaths, at all the appointed (3) feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel. Thus says the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erred, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house. In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the Passover, a Feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

1Ch 23:31
and whenever burnt offerings were presented to the LORD on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moon (2) feasts and at the appointed festivals. They were to serve before the LORD regularly in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them.

2Ch 2:4,
Now I am about to build a temple for the Name of the LORD my God and to dedicate it to him for burning fragrant incense before him, for setting out the consecrated bread regularly, and for making burnt offerings every morning and evening and on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moons and at the appointed (2) festivals of the LORD our God. This is a lasting ordinance for Israel.

Hos 2:11,
I will stop all her celebrations: her (2) yearly festivals, her (3) New Moons, her (4) Sabbaths and all her (2) appointed festivals.

It is interesting to note in the Old Testament the word Sabbath (shabbath 7676 from shabath 7673 meaning “rest”) is not only used for the weekly Sabbath but is also applied to the first and last days of the annual Jewish Festivals. The Greek Word used in Col 2:16 is Sabbaton meaning to cease from secular work; rest.

The monthly New Moon Sabbaths in relation to these festivals could fall on any day of the week. These were to start the beginning of the annual Jewish feasts. They were to be rest (Sabbath) days and restricted or no work was to be done. (Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

High Sabbaths, in most Christian and Messianic Jewish usage, are seven annual Biblical festivals and rest days, recorded in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42. The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles). Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. (In other systems, it was Nisan 14, i.e., weekly but not annual Sabbath.) The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).

All of the above have their origin from the ceremonial laws of Moses found in Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29. All these references are in connection to; (1) Food and Drink offerings, (2) Feast days, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast Sabbath(s)

So in summary, it should be very clear that Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses along with the annual Jewish feast days that all pointed to the coming of Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross the Jewish feasts along with the food and drink offerings, festivals and New Moon festival Sabbath(s) which all pointed to Jesus where a shadow of things to come. Many of the feast days in Lev 23 were were none work days in the Greek Col 2:16 were Sabbaton cease from secular work.

Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses in the annual ceremonial Feast days of Lev 23; Deut and Numbers that all pointed to Jesus and were nailed to the Cross including the annual new moon feast Sabbaths that could fall on any day of the week.

Line upon line and Precept upon precept.....

God's 7th Day Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11) and the annual ceremonial Sabbaths for feast days of Col 2:14-17

What is the difference between God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment and the annual feast sabbath(s) of Col 2:16-17? To answer this question you need to understand the difference between God’s Law (10 commandments) and the laws of Moses. Let’s have a look at what that Word of God says. God’s Law (10 commandments) had a similar (not same) role is it did in the Old Testament as it does in the New and that is;

God’s Law (10 commandments) had a similar (not same) role is it did in the Old Testament as it does in the New and that is to

(1) point out what sin is and the punishment of sin which is death (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come.

Scripture proof:
Ex 32:16; Ex 31:18; 31:18; Ex 20:1-22; Deut 10:5; Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23; Heb 7:19; Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Rev 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1John 3:5-8; 1John 2:3-4; Ecc 3:14

(2) The laws of Moses however were the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation.

Scripture proof:
Lev 1:1-13; Lev 23:1-44; Num 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deut 24:10-11; Ex 24:3; Deut 31:24-26; Col 2:16-16; Heb 10:1; Eph 2:14-15; Lev 4; 5; 6; Heb 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29

Every reference in connection to Col 2:14-17 is in relation to (1) burnt offerings; (2) Sabbaths held at the New Moon feasts and at the appointed festivals and (3) food and drink offerings. The context is referring to the annual ceremonial feast days described in Leviticus Chapter 23; Numbers chapters 28 and 29. As mentioned earlier these were all done away at the cross because they were Shadows of an unfinished word that was completed at the death of Jesus (Col 2:16-17).

Let’s now look at what the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment actually says?

Exo 20:8-11,
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day.

Now please notice some key points;

Where does it say in the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment of God’s Law that we need to do (1) burnt offerings (2) keep the annual Sabbaths at the New Moons at the appointed festivals and (3) offer food and drink offerings? It does not because it is God’s Law that points out sin. It is the same Law that we have today and is forever because it was made by God himself and represents the character of God and is the knowledge of good and evil. It shows us what sin is (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23).

Now notice the last part of the commandment in Ex 20:11 this is the reason the commandment was given. (v11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day.This is a reference back to Gen 2:1-3
What does Genesis 2:1-3 teach us about God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments?

GEN 2
[SUP]1[/SUP]Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [SUP]2[/SUP]And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.[SUP] 3[/SUP]And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Scripture context points:
* God finished all the work of creation on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the week (v1)
* God ended His Work on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the creation week and rested from all His work of creation, it was completed no more work required (v2)
* God blessed the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day and set it apart as a holy day as a memorial of creation

Critical questions and answers:

When was God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath made, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind?
It was made BEFORE the fall of mankind at the end of the creation week on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day and was the result of a FINISHED work!

Was God’s work of creation a FINISHED WORK or an UNFUNISHED WORK?
The 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath was the result of the FINISHED AND COMPLETED WORK of creation!

When were God’s Laws and the laws of Moses given, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind? Obviously AFTER the fall of mankind (Ex 20:1-17, Lev 23:1-44, etc) they were part of God’s plan of salvation.

So in summary the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath is a memorial of the FINISHED work of creation and if it is a FINISHED work and a memorial of God’s creation that was given BEFORE the FALL of mankind before SIN had entered the world and before the plan of salvation was given to FALLEN man. If it was a part of a FINISHED work then it cannot be a Shadow of salvation because a Shadow was part of an UNFINISHED work given in the laws of Moses and was given AFTER the fall of mankind where the Sabbath was made before the fall.

Overall summary:
* Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses (v 14)

* The ceremonial laws of Moses included all the (1) food and drink offering, (2) feast days and festivals, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast sabbaths (v 16)

* These were all Shadows pointing to Jesus and were completed at His death (v14; 17)

* The in text context of Col 2:16 is referring to the Old Testament scriptures word for word in relation to the laws of Moses (Col 2:16-17; Eze 45:17-21; 1Ch 23:31; 2Ch 2:4; Hos 2:11; Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

* God’s Law (10 commandments) was the work of God himself and separate from every other law given to Israel. Its role was to point out sin

* The laws of Moses were to teach Israel the plan of salvation pointing to Jesus which was completed at the death of Jesus. It could not identify sin but its provided a cure for sin in animal sacrificed and burnt offerings and food and drink offerings which all pointed to Jesus (Col 2:14-17)

* Col 2:16 is referring to the annual New Moon ceremonial sabbaths connected to feast days and mean and drink offerings and not the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment of God’s Law.

* God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment is a reference to Gen 2:1-3 which is the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day of the creation week which was part of the FINISHED work creation given BEFORE the fall of mankind so cannot be a part of any Shadow plan of Salvation because its origin is in the FINISHED creation week BEFORE the fall.

Closing remarks:

Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man. He is the God of creation that made it for mankind. God commands us to keep the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath as a Holy day because he rested on this day. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. If we love him we must follow Him (Mark 2:27-28; John 14:15)

Hope this helps the faithful Bereans.

God bless you all line upon line and precept upon precept.....

good stuff there for sure.

in the Gospel we learn of the ordinances fulfilled . the levitical priesthood laws are all found in Jesus, the cleansing rites all found in His Words, the ceremonial washings, the observance of the 7 feasts, the passover all of those types of things the ordinances and commandments are 2 different things.

 

[Dan_473]

God told Moses that He would be sending a prophet, yes, and the He said He would be like Moses. This was referring to Jesus christ, and just as Moses gaqve the law as given him

Jesus Christ taught all in His gospel how the law is to be viewed after Him.,

Jesus Christ was perfect for you and for me, yet we are to imitate Him as best we are able.

He was never under the law as many try to say. No, He was perfect in obedience. He fulfileld the law, completed it in His acctions and teaching.

Again, He was perfect, we are not, but we do imitate HIm by obeying God as we know we should.

No one can say we are not to obey God. We are not under the law, but we imitate and obey just as Jesus did while not having the guilt of our transgression held against su...because of the Blood of Jesus Christ.

As long as we have parents we are to respect ad honor them, we are not to steal, we are t love our enemies, we are to turn the other cheek,, we are to always demonstrate justice when able, and always show mercy.

All of the above we deo in faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus has told us to obey the commandments and never to diminish the law, yet many disobey him first in denying He said this, and second by advocating not obeying what we know is good.

We earn nothing by doing what is our due, but our Father loves us when we do........

the Prophet never said Here is a new list of laws, just keep these.


He said to keep them all, and teach others to do the same.

 

[JaumeJ]

Apparently you ae not familiar with Jesus' teaching in His sermon on the mount, nor are you familiar with how He saved the woaman caught in adultery from being stoned to death according to the law..

Also you are not familiar with what Jesus teaches regarding the law, how it should be exercised with faith, mercy and justice.

the Prophet never said Here is a new list of laws, just keep these.


He said to keep them all, and teach others to do the same.

 

[oldethennew]

dan is 'blinded', for now, '101"

 

[gotime]

2 Corinthians 3:7-8
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to b e done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

The ministration of death written on stones is the 10 commandments. They were written on stone. This seems true enough no problem there as I see it.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The law, the 10 commandments, show us our sin. Again true I can't argue with that, Romans 3 says this also.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The law of sin and death is the 10 commandment. Now we may differ on that verse Ill explain.

So here is the verse in question:

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

As seen above, You have claimed that this law of sin and death is the 10 commandments. I can see why you think that given the two verses used before this. Showing the law points our sin and ministers death. Sounds logical until you take the context of Romans 8 into account and see something very different is being spoken of.

Before this Paul said this:

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

So clearly there are two laws Paul has in mind and we should let Paul define them as I am sure you would agree.

So what is the law of God according to Paul?

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

We know Paul calls this law good which law is it that Paul says is good?

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Which law is Paul talking about?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Its none other than the law of the 10 commandments. As Paul explains the law itself is not sin but shows sin by that which is good. Notice he sacrificially says the 10 commandments are not sin so they can not be the law of sin and death mentioned later or else Paul is changing his mind. The ten commandments show sin they are not sin themselves.

So what then is the law of sin and death?

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Notice the reasoning here, The problem is not the good law of God/10 commandments the problem is that he can not do it and this shows that sin dwells in us.

Thus sin is the breaking or inability to do the law of God which is good.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

so notice this verse again the law of sin is in our embers it is not some outward stones it is an inward law of sin. Because of the law of sin the law of God condemns us. The law of God/10 commandments reveal the law of sin in our members. and thus we need deliverance not from the law of God but from the law of sin in us making our very body one of death as it says:

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

So now back to 8:

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

So Christ makes us free form the law of sin which was in us. Thus what the law of God could not do Jesus did and condemned sin in the flesh. Notice again its the sin in us.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Notice the result the law will be fulfilled in us, what law? not the law of sin but the law of God which is Gods 10 commandments by way of the Spirit.

Clearly contextually you have misused Romans 8. but the other two texts were fine.

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 5:20 [FONT=&quot]Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

It is not wrong for Paul to refer to the 10 commandments as the law of sin. That's its purpose. To cause sin to abound. To show sin.

Paul also referred to the 10 commandments as the ministry of death.

In juxtaposition to this law of sin and death you have the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.


Does that make the 10 commandments bad? No.

Romans 7:13 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The whole point of the 10 commandments is to show our need for a Saviour. But what are we saved from?

We are saved from our carnal understanding and carnal work at a law that can only show the carnal that they can't attain to it.

And then Paul says well what do we do now? If we can't attain to it?

Romans 8:4-7
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Surely the carnal can rest on saturdays. Surely the carnal can abstain from murder. Surely the carnal can abstain from adultery.

In order to be Spiritual and follow the Spirit it must be something other than what a carnal person can do with his carnal understanding and carnal strength.

Romans 9:31-32
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

They tried to work at the law in their carnal understanding and carnal strength.

Hebrews 7:18-19
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.[/FONT]

 

[loveme1]

has God sent us a prophet to tell us which laws we still keep?


there is no waiver in the law for doing part.

DEUTERONOMY 8:1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do.





all the law is fulfilled

GALATIANS 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled.

A Saviour He sent to give Testimony... many are relaying the message.

 

[loveme1]

Psalm 40

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[TD]King James Bible


1{To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.} I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.
2He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.
3And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.
4Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.
5Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.
6Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
7Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
9I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.
10I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.
11Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me.
12For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.
13Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me.
14Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.
15Let them be desolate for a reward of their shame that say unto me, Aha, aha.
16Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee: let such as love thy salvation say continually, The LORD be magnified.
17But I am poor and needy; yet the Lord thinketh upon me: thou art my help and my deliverer; make no tarrying, O my God.



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[JaumeJ]

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I have understood this teaching since the moment I was convinced of Jesus christ by the testimony of the Holy Spirit enteriing into my heart.

Who of the do-nothing, grace-only folks wants to twist this teaching?

Why do you suppose we who believe Jesus christ, are referred to as His servants so many times in the NT? Servants serve; it is as simple as that.

Do not call this "erning salvation" nor being "under the law."

It is apparent the do-nothings would like us all to be under their law; this is never going to happen. We serve God in pride, kpride of His glory and everything He is.

So, you do-nothings and grace-only who want to just sit on your hands go ahead, but leave those who demonstrate their grtitude with action to act on what is given them by God.