Not By Works
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Ive been doing research on what the workers against are declaring that no-one had faith until after the cross..
Ok heres a nugget for you...
[h=1]Matthew 13:58Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)[/h] [SUP]58 [/SUP]And He did not do many works of power there, because of their unbelief (their lack of faith [SUP][a][/SUP]in the divine mission of Jesus).
ps i havent bracketed this out ....... this is how it is written
Ok heres a nugget for you...
[h=1]Matthew 13:58Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)[/h] [SUP]58 [/SUP]And He did not do many works of power there, because of their unbelief (their lack of faith [SUP][a][/SUP]in the divine mission of Jesus).
ps i havent bracketed this out ....... this is how it is written
You're overlooking all those meanings in Greek to justify yourself.
That is sinful.
That's the ONLY scripture that does this, PLUS, it's the only scripture saying the "sanctifier" is the spouse. Disqualified.
I never said that.
The CONTRAST is faithful christians vs. drawing back, rebellious, willful sinning christians.
There's no such thing as a "superficial, nominal christian". You just made that up.
You would do well to quit using eisegesis & writing your personal meanings into scripture. It makes you a hoax.
That is sinful.
That's the ONLY scripture that does this, PLUS, it's the only scripture saying the "sanctifier" is the spouse. Disqualified.
I never said that.
The CONTRAST is faithful christians vs. drawing back, rebellious, willful sinning christians.
There's no such thing as a "superficial, nominal christian". You just made that up.
You would do well to quit using eisegesis & writing your personal meanings into scripture. It makes you a hoax.
nuggets dont disolve they shine forever more
Not at all. The same Greek word is used in 1 Corinthians 7:14 and the unbelieving husband who was "sanctified" was not saved and neither were these Hebrews that drew back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul.
Doesn't matter. I only need one example in scripture to prove my point. In 1 Corinthians 7:14, it says "the unbelieving husband is sanctified by his wife, just as these Hebrew "nominal" Christians were sanctified or "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but the writer of Hebrews NEVER specifically said they were "saved." It's not hard at all to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with a group of genuine Christians. Why do you think Paul says to examine ourselves to see whether we are in the faith? (2 Corinthians 13:5) Paul mentions false brethren in 2 Corinthians 11:26 and Galatians 2:4. We also have disciples who are not truly His disciples (John 8:31) because they get offended by the words of Jesus, turned back and walked with Him no more/no longer followed Him (John 6:66) and Jesus knew from the beginning who is was that did not truly believe (John 6:64).
Willful sinning Christians is an oxymoron according to John. 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin.. That is willful and habitual sin (which is what the writer of Hebrews is addressing in Hebrews 10:26) willful rejection of Christ that is continuous action. But according to you, those who are born of God, practice sin and lose their salvation. Should I believe you or John? Check.
I have simply harmonized scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion. You should do the same, instead of giving the word "sanctified" a broad brushed definition of saved, when that does not fit the context (Genesis 2:3; Exodus 29:43; Leviticus 10:3; 1 Corinthians 7:14; Hebrews 10:29-39). Check mate.
Doesn't matter. I only need one example in scripture to prove my point. In 1 Corinthians 7:14, it says "the unbelieving husband is sanctified by his wife, just as these Hebrew "nominal" Christians were sanctified or "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but the writer of Hebrews NEVER specifically said they were "saved." It's not hard at all to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with a group of genuine Christians. Why do you think Paul says to examine ourselves to see whether we are in the faith? (2 Corinthians 13:5) Paul mentions false brethren in 2 Corinthians 11:26 and Galatians 2:4. We also have disciples who are not truly His disciples (John 8:31) because they get offended by the words of Jesus, turned back and walked with Him no more/no longer followed Him (John 6:66) and Jesus knew from the beginning who is was that did not truly believe (John 6:64).
I never said that.
The CONTRAST is faithful christians vs. drawing back, rebellious, willful sinning christians.
There's no such thing as a "superficial, nominal christian". You just made that up.
The CONTRAST is faithful christians vs. drawing back, rebellious, willful sinning christians.
There's no such thing as a "superficial, nominal christian". You just made that up.
I have simply harmonized scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion. You should do the same, instead of giving the word "sanctified" a broad brushed definition of saved, when that does not fit the context (Genesis 2:3; Exodus 29:43; Leviticus 10:3; 1 Corinthians 7:14; Hebrews 10:29-39). Check mate.
truly glad you asked that question and thanks for the return hug
I just ate lunch and just want to answer yr question before I get back to work.
this experience was totally against my will, I did nothing to make it happen and I don't know what happened...I was not aware...only aware I was OBE as you say
I was saved and desiring to 'serve' God but quite young. through a family member, we became involved with a well known 'evangelist' (at the time and I won't name him...no purpose to it now and I'm really a pretty private person)
there were suspicions about this individual, but he had hundreds...literally hundreds...of invitations to conduct 'crusades' in Pentecostal churches across the US and some in Canada
I got to know him very well. he was thrown out of his denom and excommunicated. he was a practicing sexual deviant (no...he never touched me but he did slap me across the face one time when I innocently said he looked tired)
there were plenty of strange goings on. my experience was one and many other people suffered things while being involved
years later, when I was counselling with someone and praying with them, another woman and it was just the 2 of us...she had asked for help but I will never go alone again..not even same sex..as I was reading from the Bible and asking her to participate (she was a believer) I felt strange all of a sudden. we were across the living room from each other and I don't remember what she was saying...but I remember the look on her face.
I started to feel as I had when I had the OBE. I immediately shut it all down. She was involved in sexual fantasies and imagined someone in love with her. I was trying to bring her out of that deception. The man whom she fancied in love with her, thought she had mental problems.
it is my experience that those that have sexual demons attached to them have influence over others and some know they have this influence and enjoy it and others are oblivious and as much a victim of the demon as the ones bothered by it. not everyone will be 'bothered'. the Bible is clear that we should run from sexual sins. that is my best advice also
this is not an isolated thing. people are embarrassed to talk about this kind of thing but it is actually common.
I am not saying people are demon possessed. I do not see in scripture where believers are possessed by the devil. Influenced, bothered, even directed by...whatever, but we do know our enemies are spiritual and far more cunning then many will concede.
I don't make it my business to look into things like that, but if you do know something, sometimes someone will ask for help or need counselling.
now that's a long answer and maybe more than you would want to hear, but that's what happened
this same woman that I tried to help was involved in extra-biblical beliefs and loved how so called special knowledge made her feel superior and important. it also turned out that she had had several so called 'spiritual' involvements with men, thinking they were attracted to her or in love with her
I just ate lunch and just want to answer yr question before I get back to work.
this experience was totally against my will, I did nothing to make it happen and I don't know what happened...I was not aware...only aware I was OBE as you say
I was saved and desiring to 'serve' God but quite young. through a family member, we became involved with a well known 'evangelist' (at the time and I won't name him...no purpose to it now and I'm really a pretty private person)
there were suspicions about this individual, but he had hundreds...literally hundreds...of invitations to conduct 'crusades' in Pentecostal churches across the US and some in Canada
I got to know him very well. he was thrown out of his denom and excommunicated. he was a practicing sexual deviant (no...he never touched me but he did slap me across the face one time when I innocently said he looked tired)
there were plenty of strange goings on. my experience was one and many other people suffered things while being involved
years later, when I was counselling with someone and praying with them, another woman and it was just the 2 of us...she had asked for help but I will never go alone again..not even same sex..as I was reading from the Bible and asking her to participate (she was a believer) I felt strange all of a sudden. we were across the living room from each other and I don't remember what she was saying...but I remember the look on her face.
I started to feel as I had when I had the OBE. I immediately shut it all down. She was involved in sexual fantasies and imagined someone in love with her. I was trying to bring her out of that deception. The man whom she fancied in love with her, thought she had mental problems.
it is my experience that those that have sexual demons attached to them have influence over others and some know they have this influence and enjoy it and others are oblivious and as much a victim of the demon as the ones bothered by it. not everyone will be 'bothered'. the Bible is clear that we should run from sexual sins. that is my best advice also
this is not an isolated thing. people are embarrassed to talk about this kind of thing but it is actually common.
I am not saying people are demon possessed. I do not see in scripture where believers are possessed by the devil. Influenced, bothered, even directed by...whatever, but we do know our enemies are spiritual and far more cunning then many will concede.
I don't make it my business to look into things like that, but if you do know something, sometimes someone will ask for help or need counselling.
now that's a long answer and maybe more than you would want to hear, but that's what happened
this same woman that I tried to help was involved in extra-biblical beliefs and loved how so called special knowledge made her feel superior and important. it also turned out that she had had several so called 'spiritual' involvements with men, thinking they were attracted to her or in love with her
Not at all. The same Greek word is used in 1 Corinthians 7:14 and the unbelieving husband who was "sanctified" was not saved and neither were these Hebrews that drew back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul.
Doesn't matter. I only need one example in scripture to prove my point. In 1 Corinthians 7:14, it says "the unbelieving husband is sanctified by his wife, just as these Hebrew "nominal" Christians were sanctified or "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but the writer of Hebrews NEVER specifically said they were "saved." It's not hard at all to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with a group of genuine Christians. Why do you think Paul says to examine ourselves to see whether we are in the faith? (2 Corinthians 13:5) Paul mentions false brethren in 2 Corinthians 11:26 and Galatians 2:4. We also have disciples who are not truly His disciples (John 8:31) because they get offended by the words of Jesus, turned back and walked with Him no more/no longer followed Him (John 6:66) and Jesus knew from the beginning who is was that did not truly believe (John 6:64).
Willful sinning Christians is an oxymoron according to John. 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin.. That is willful and habitual sin (which is what the writer of Hebrews is addressing in Hebrews 10:26) willful rejection of Christ that is continuous action. But according to you, those who are born of God, practice sin and lose their salvation. Should I believe you or John? Check.
I have simply harmonized scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion. You should do the same, instead of giving the word "sanctified" a broad brushed definition of saved, when that does not fit the context (Genesis 2:3; Exodus 29:43; Leviticus 10:3; 1 Corinthians 7:14; Hebrews 10:29-39). Check mate.
Doesn't matter. I only need one example in scripture to prove my point. In 1 Corinthians 7:14, it says "the unbelieving husband is sanctified by his wife, just as these Hebrew "nominal" Christians were sanctified or "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but the writer of Hebrews NEVER specifically said they were "saved." It's not hard at all to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with a group of genuine Christians. Why do you think Paul says to examine ourselves to see whether we are in the faith? (2 Corinthians 13:5) Paul mentions false brethren in 2 Corinthians 11:26 and Galatians 2:4. We also have disciples who are not truly His disciples (John 8:31) because they get offended by the words of Jesus, turned back and walked with Him no more/no longer followed Him (John 6:66) and Jesus knew from the beginning who is was that did not truly believe (John 6:64).
Willful sinning Christians is an oxymoron according to John. 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin.. That is willful and habitual sin (which is what the writer of Hebrews is addressing in Hebrews 10:26) willful rejection of Christ that is continuous action. But according to you, those who are born of God, practice sin and lose their salvation. Should I believe you or John? Check.
I have simply harmonized scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion. You should do the same, instead of giving the word "sanctified" a broad brushed definition of saved, when that does not fit the context (Genesis 2:3; Exodus 29:43; Leviticus 10:3; 1 Corinthians 7:14; Hebrews 10:29-39). Check mate.
What I find amazing Jimbo is this.
I can't recall the verses to hand but I'm sure there is something in the bible that talks about the refining fire of God in our lives.
Its a process that continues to happen so that all the crap is removed and the nuggets you talk about start to shine through.
Its a process. As a God refines us more and more the dross that in our lives starts to fall away.
People think that diamonds come from compressed coal but my understanding is that they don't.
A diamond in order to become one has to go through a process to become one.
I would say, you me and others are diamonds. All the elements are there and it's God who refines us and takes us through the process.
Refiners fire, my hearts one desire, is to be Holy and set apart for you Lord.
Jimbo my friend you are a nugget and a diamond.
I can't recall the verses to hand but I'm sure there is something in the bible that talks about the refining fire of God in our lives.
Its a process that continues to happen so that all the crap is removed and the nuggets you talk about start to shine through.
Its a process. As a God refines us more and more the dross that in our lives starts to fall away.
People think that diamonds come from compressed coal but my understanding is that they don't.
A diamond in order to become one has to go through a process to become one.
I would say, you me and others are diamonds. All the elements are there and it's God who refines us and takes us through the process.
Refiners fire, my hearts one desire, is to be Holy and set apart for you Lord.
Jimbo my friend you are a nugget and a diamond.
The Bible has not shown me to be wrong through harmonizing scripture with scripture and the Bible has not shown me a specific verse that says a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation," so that settles it for me.
I clearly made my point in post #24413, but you can believe whatever tickles your ears.
I clearly made my point in post #24413, but you can believe whatever tickles your ears.
I have wondered about a verse for a long time so I may as well ask the opinions of all of you since I am finding you all to be a great help while we walk well in here.
It is the verses that say: Woe...it will be more tolerable or better for these or those unbelievers than it will be for you on the day of judgement. (My paraphrase).
The verse astounds me.
I have thought of it together with: If you didn't say you could see, you would have no sin, but since you say you can see...
I can't quite glean it though.
It is the verses that say: Woe...it will be more tolerable or better for these or those unbelievers than it will be for you on the day of judgement. (My paraphrase).
The verse astounds me.
I have thought of it together with: If you didn't say you could see, you would have no sin, but since you say you can see...
I can't quite glean it though.
I'm just getting here and you might have received an answer by now.
You're referring to Mathew 10:15
Jesus was instructing His 12 Apostles as to how they should go out and preach. He was telling them how they were to behave when accepted and when not accepted.
In Mathew 10:14 Jesus tells the Apostles that whoever does not receive them and heed their words, they are to shake the dust off their feet. IOW, they were to leave and not to worry about it further.
In Mathew 10:15 Jesus tells the Apostles that Sodom and Gomorrah will be judged less harshly on Judgement day than the cities that do not accept and heed the words of the Apostles.
In Genesis 19, God destroyed S and G because they were cities full of sin.
So why would the cities the Apostles visited by judged MORE harshly?
Because they had the Apostles that were speaking to them.
They heard the witnesses of Jesus.
They heard the actual teachings and the good news of Jesus.
It was as if they were denying not the Apostles, but Jesus Himself.
The unpardonable sin.
The great sin.
Unbelief.
Not at all. The same Greek word is used in 1 Corinthians 7:14 and the unbelieving husband who was "sanctified" was not saved and neither were these Hebrews that drew back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul.
Doesn't matter. I only need one example in scripture to prove my point. In 1 Corinthians 7:14, it says "the unbelieving husband is sanctified by his wife, just as these Hebrew "nominal" Christians were sanctified or "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but the writer of Hebrews NEVER specifically said they were "saved." It's not hard at all to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with a group of genuine Christians. Why do you think Paul says to examine ourselves to see whether we are in the faith? (2 Corinthians 13:5) Paul mentions false brethren in 2 Corinthians 11:26 and Galatians 2:4. We also have disciples who are not truly His disciples (John 8:31) because they get offended by the words of Jesus, turned back and walked with Him no more/no longer followed Him (John 6:66) and Jesus knew from the beginning who is was that did not truly believe (John 6:64).
Willful sinning Christians is an oxymoron according to John. 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin.. That is willful and habitual sin (which is what the writer of Hebrews is addressing in Hebrews 10:26) willful rejection of Christ that is continuous action. But according to you, those who are born of God, practice sin and lose their salvation. Should I believe you or John? Check.
I have simply harmonized scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion. You should do the same, instead of giving the word "sanctified" a broad brushed definition of saved, when that does not fit the context (Genesis 2:3; Exodus 29:43; Leviticus 10:3; 1 Corinthians 7:14; Hebrews 10:29-39). Check mate.
Doesn't matter. I only need one example in scripture to prove my point. In 1 Corinthians 7:14, it says "the unbelieving husband is sanctified by his wife, just as these Hebrew "nominal" Christians were sanctified or "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but the writer of Hebrews NEVER specifically said they were "saved." It's not hard at all to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with a group of genuine Christians. Why do you think Paul says to examine ourselves to see whether we are in the faith? (2 Corinthians 13:5) Paul mentions false brethren in 2 Corinthians 11:26 and Galatians 2:4. We also have disciples who are not truly His disciples (John 8:31) because they get offended by the words of Jesus, turned back and walked with Him no more/no longer followed Him (John 6:66) and Jesus knew from the beginning who is was that did not truly believe (John 6:64).
Willful sinning Christians is an oxymoron according to John. 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin.. That is willful and habitual sin (which is what the writer of Hebrews is addressing in Hebrews 10:26) willful rejection of Christ that is continuous action. But according to you, those who are born of God, practice sin and lose their salvation. Should I believe you or John? Check.
I have simply harmonized scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion. You should do the same, instead of giving the word "sanctified" a broad brushed definition of saved, when that does not fit the context (Genesis 2:3; Exodus 29:43; Leviticus 10:3; 1 Corinthians 7:14; Hebrews 10:29-39). Check mate.