Sabbath

[LoveGodForever]

Once a person comes to Christ they are no longer under the law. The law has done its job. It has shown you that you have no hope of EVER fulfilling it on your own. So you need a Saviour and a Helper and a Friend. If you go back to the law to try to work at it, entangling yourself again, you have rejected the Power of your Saviour. If you go back to your work and understanding of the law you have told Christ "No thanks, I've got this".
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Hi Grandpa,

Absolutely, you are correct. The "believer" is not " under the Law" in that Jesus has freed the sinner from their sins because of the Faith they had in His Word. But this is only because God's Law was the schoolmaster to bring us to the cross in the first place. No one is telling you to go back to the Law because all the Law of God can do is point out sin. (1John 3:4). We walk in Jesus the very same way that we receive him and that is by Faith. The scriptures tell us walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Rom 8:1-6,
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin,1 condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

All of our salvation every bit of it is by faith in the Word of God. It is God's Law that brings us there. This is why Jesus tells us

Mat 9:12-13,
But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Getting late my end so happy to chat latter. Nice to talk with you.

God bless

 

[Bogadile]

What is this fecal matter about if one "keeps the sabbath" one must keep all the u613 laws.? You are not very read in the eWord.

What next? If one wishes to keep the commandment to hoor they father and they mother, one must keep the entire 613 laws.

What kind of crackpot learning is this?

Right, it is for those of the lip service only who do nothing after salvatio to demonstrate gratitude.

Stop talking nonsense for the sake of all who are seekers of truth. We are obedient children and with
the infilling of the Holy Spirit we know what and why.

Because there is no longer a curse with the law, we are not afraid to learn teh wisdom contained theri,as
is written in our original Books of learning.....

Time to collect the stones now pal.
The difference between honoring your father and mother and the sabbath is that the sabbath is not mentioned in the new testament as binding on Christians, simple:

Romans 13:9 "For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Colossians 2:16 "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath."

Even Jesus leaves it out in:

Matthew 19:18-19 "He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Now what was it about crackpots? Empty vessels make the most noise, that is one thing about crackpots.

 

[Bogadile]

Lets put a stop to this "debate" once and for all:
Is there a single passage in the New Testament that states we are to keep the Sabbath? The answer is no, all other commandments of the 10 are listed in the NT except the Sabbath, and we have Col 2:16 as well.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Time to collect the stones now pal.
The difference between honoring your father and mother and the sabbath is that the sabbath is not mentioned in the new testament as binding on Christians, simple:Romans 13:9 "For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Colossians 2:16 "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath."Even Jesus leaves it out in:Matthew 19:18-19 "He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”Now what was it about crackpots? Empty vessels make the most noise, that is one thing about crackpots.

Hello Friend,

Last one for tonight. You may need to spend a bit more time studying the Word of God I think. Here are the scriptures you said were not in the New Testament.

(1) Jesus taught us that the Sabbath was made for mankind and that mankind was not created for the Sabbath (Mark 2:27).

(2) Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and that this is the Lord's Day and NOT Sunday (Mark 2:28). Jesus came to

(3) Jesus taught us that it is ok to enjoy the Sabbath and to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14)

(4) Jesus taught and fellow shipped with his people on the Sabbath (Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56). Similar verses can be shown for the apostles after the death of Jesus (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

Here are the scriptures proof in relation to Col 2 linked:

Col 2 Sabbaths and Shadows of things to come (1)

Col 2 Sabbaths and Shadows of things to come (2)

Colossians 2 (a must read God's Word)

It is God's Word please study for yourself and ask Jesus

God bless you

 

[LoveGodForever]

Lets put a stop to this "debate" once and for all:
Is there a single passage in the New Testament that states we are to keep the Sabbath? The answer is no, all other commandments of the 10 are listed in the NT except the Sabbath, and we have Col 2:16 as well.

In departing, why would there be a commandment in the New testament to keep the Sabbath? Where is the commandment not to use the Lords Name in Vain in the New Testament. Everything that comes from the New Testament comes from the Old testament scriptures. God's people were already given God's Law back in the times of Moses (Ex 20:1-17) and were already keeping the Sabbath. Jesus however taught us that the Sabbath was made for man and that He is the creator and Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:27-2; Heb 4). We keep the Sabbath because it is a commandment of God and we follow the Lord of the Sabbath Jesus because we love him. You may need to study God's Word more.

God bless and good night

 

[JaumeJ]

Would Jesus Christ be a truthful source in your expert esteem? He says to obey the commandments in the Gospels, that is if you believe the disciples qualify in their writings given by the Holy SÇpirit.

He also says teh same in Revelation after His ascension, obviously.

Unhapply, there are so many who rant they are under grace and so free of teh commandments and laws they do notneed to pay any attentiont to them, yet they do not understand about obeing God after salvation that the knowledge is clouded for so many. Of course all who are truly in christ will not be deceived for long. Jesus will not permit this.

Lets put a stop to this "debate" once and for all:
Is there a single passage in the New Testament that states we are to keep the Sabbath? The answer is no, all other commandments of the 10 are listed in the NT except the Sabbath, and we have Col 2:16 as well.

 

[Bogadile]

I can imagine these guys talking to new believers, the destruction.

"Great to hear that you've repented and received Jesus Christ. But uhm, do you abstain from working and making a fire on saturday (sabbath?)"
-"No, I go to church on sunday."
-"Wow, that will be the mark of the beast, you need to half-way keep the Sabbath (nobody can fully keep it today, do not say it out loud), if you go to church on the wrong day when the AntiChrist comes, you will go to hell. Oops I do not believe in hell, you will perish I mean, you will not exist, a lot of things are at stake here."
-"Nice, you mean there is no hell? And why does God care so much about what day we go to church on? brb going to the bar. have a good sabbath"

Judaizer translation: "Do not be afraid of him who can kill the body, but after that can do nothing, but be afraid of him who can kill the body".
Uhh..
You see this is why all the empty threats you throw at me are completely and utterly useless noise, in your belief system the punishment I would get would be that I would perish if I go to church on the wrong day in the future, if that is the worst that can happen in the afterlife, why should anyone care? I do not understand why SDAs have members at all.

I think it is safe to say this thread is wrapped up nicely.

 

[beta]

In departing, why would there be a commandment in the New testament to keep the Sabbath? Where is the commandment not to use the Lords Name in Vain in the New Testament. Everything that comes from the New Testament comes from the Old testament scriptures. God's people were already given God's Law back in the times of Moses (Ex 20:1-17) and were already keeping the Sabbath. Jesus however taught us that the Sabbath was made for man and that He is the creator and Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:27-2; Heb 4). We keep the Sabbath because it is a commandment of God and we follow the Lord of the Sabbath Jesus because we love him. You may need to study God's Word more.

God bless and good night

ALSO...there have already been hundreds/thousands of years of talking about keeping the Sabbath to no avail...why would Jesus continue a fruitless discussion about it ?
He did something much better HE observed it and lived it as an example for us !!!
For Him and His handpicked Disciples the Sabbath was a given and should also be for us their followers !!!

 

[JaumeJ]

You are presumptuous to think you understand what I do on the Sabbath or do not do. We are to approach the law with faith, mercy and justice....you do not understand this.

The Seventh day will always be the one designated byi God and not by men. I recognize the Authority that is God, while those who think ignoring Him is part of grace........fools the way to dusty death.

When you know what obedience in grace is, then comment,. Until then you are posting in abject ignorance. YOu have not read anything people who believe God have posted.

It must be nice to be your own truth.

I can imagine these guys talking to new believers, the destruction.

"Great to hear that you've repented and received Jesus Christ. But uhm, do you abstain from working and making a fire on saturday (sabbath?)"
-"No, I go to church on sunday."
-"Wow, that will be the mark of the beast, you need to half-way keep the Sabbath (nobody can fully keep it today, do not say it out loud), if you go to church on the wrong day when the AntiChrist comes, you will go to hell. Oops I do not believe in hell, you will perish I mean, you will not exist, a lot of things are at stake here."
-"Nice, you mean there is no hell? And why does God care so much about what day we go to church on? brb going to the bar. have a good sabbath"

Judaizer translation: "Do not be afraid of him who can kill the body, but after that can do nothing, but be afraid of him who can kill the body".
Uhh..
You see this is why all the empty threats you throw at me are completely and utterly useless noise, in your belief system the punishment I would get would be that I would perish if I go to church on the wrong day in the future, if that is the worst that can happen in the afterlife, why should anyone care? I do not understand why SDAs have members at all.

I think it is safe to say this thread is wrapped up nicely.

 

[loveme1]

I can imagine these guys talking to new believers, the destruction.

"Great to hear that you've repented and received Jesus Christ. But uhm, do you abstain from working and making a fire on saturday (sabbath?)"
-"No, I go to church on sunday."
-"Wow, that will be the mark of the beast, you need to half-way keep the Sabbath (nobody can fully keep it today, do not say it out loud), if you go to church on the wrong day when the AntiChrist comes, you will go to hell. Oops I do not believe in hell, you will perish I mean, you will not exist, a lot of things are at stake here."
-"Nice, you mean there is no hell? And why does God care so much about what day we go to church on? brb going to the bar. have a good sabbath"

Judaizer translation: "Do not be afraid of him who can kill the body, but after that can do nothing, but be afraid of him who can kill the body".
Uhh..
You see this is why all the empty threats you throw at me are completely and utterly useless noise, in your belief system the punishment I would get would be that I would perish if I go to church on the wrong day in the future, if that is the worst that can happen in the afterlife, why should anyone care? I do not understand why SDAs have members at all.

I think it is safe to say this thread is wrapped up nicely.

Are you sure you have not just come from the bar? What on earth were you thinking writing this?

 

[LoveGodForever]

I haven't read all of the posts, so if this is a repeat of scripture, my apologies. Hebrews 4:3-11 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”

And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world.4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

Hi Crustyone,

Nice to meet you. These are interesting scriptures. They are referencing the old testament scriptures (Gen 2:1-3) and the children of Israel and their experience in the wilderness. Here are the same scriptures with key points taken from each text and put together for your consideration.

HEB 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Key Scripture points

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)
* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbeliefit (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest [SUP]4520[/SUP] to the people of God.” (NAS; Heb 4:9)
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)
Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?

The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28-29)

Hope this is helpful

God bless

 

[graceNpeace]

Hi Grace777.

There is of course a difference between God's Law and the laws of Moses. If we count the Sabbath as a part of the law of Moses, then we should count the rest of the Ten Commandments as the law of Moses too, which then makes us free from all of them.

I have heard many different arguments for a Saturday and Sunday Sabbath, both sides very compelling. Personally I keep a Saturday Sabbath because that's what Jesus did, and if it was good for Him, then who am I to argue.

I have to admit though that a passage in the Bible has often baffled me: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (Col 2:16).

Something else I find very interesting is that the Commandment with regards to the Sabbath is the longest of all the Commandments and in Matthew 5:19 Jesus says that whoever breaks the least of the Commandments will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

No, there is not!
This is a completely false distinction.

The law is the law.
All of it was given to God to Moses.
The law is the Covenant of Moses.

The Covenant of Moses is not binding on New Covenant believers....

 

[gotime]

They are the same thing!!!!!!!
That is EXACTLY the point of Hebrews chapter 4!!!!!!!!

I get that you think they are the same thing.

But I told you clearly that I do not see it the way you do. Thus your whole argument is useless because it does not address the issue at all to my mind.

Now you can dismiss me and disagree. But you responded. It makes no sense to respond and dialogue if we are on two different pages.

I will address Hebrews 4 but it wont be short because the author is using a lot of stories and images form the Old Testament. Only by understanding them will one grasp the message of Hebrews 4.

I personally doubt you or Grace777 or Grandpa understands it because none of you every really have shown an explanation that uses the references the author uses.

 

[graceNpeace]

I get that you think they are the same thing.

But I told you clearly that I do not see it the way you do. Thus your whole argument is useless because it does not address the issue at all to my mind.

Now you can dismiss me and disagree. But you responded. It makes no sense to respond and dialogue if we are on two different pages.

I will address Hebrews 4 but it wont be short because the author is using a lot of stories and images form the Old Testament. Only by understanding them will one grasp the message of Hebrews 4.

I personally doubt you or Grace777 or Grandpa understands it because none of you every really have shown an explanation that uses the references the author uses.

Why cast pearls before swine?
I cannot speak for Grandpa directly but G777 and I understand our Bible and theology very well.

As for you, the more detail you elaborate about your Scriptural understanding the more obvious it becomes just how weak your exegesis (actually eisegesis) really is!
I have read a fair bit of scholarly stuff originating from the SDA church trying to justify their positions and they are always criticised for the poor scholarship.

Face it gotime, you may be an SDA pastor but that hardly gives you either the moral or scholarly high ground.
One of the reasons I do not go into extensive detail in my posts on this thread is precisely because the actual level of understanding is so poor.
After all, all you are trying to do is defend a really dodgy doctrine that just happens to be the signature doctrine of the SDA church...

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hi Feedmachine, (Part 1/2)

So nice to meet you here. Col 2 is an interesting Chapter. I really did not understand it until I started learning about the Old Testament scriptures. Everything in the New Testament has its origin from the Old and all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Jesus says we have life by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (2Tim 3:16; Matt 4:4). So you will find your answer to Col 2 in the Old Testament scriptures. I will be happy to have a discussion with you about this if you have some time? Here are some scriptures that I have found useful.

Lets look at the scriptures;

Col 2:14-17,
[SUP]14[/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [SUP]15[/SUP], And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. [SUP]16[/SUP] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath day(s): [SUP]17[/SUP], which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Omit “the”not used in the Greek)

Scripture points:

· Blotting out or nailing the handwriting of ordinances to the cross (v14)
· The cross triumphing over principalities and powers (v 15)
· No one to Judge you in meat and drink, holy days, new moon of the sabbath day(s) (v16)
· Which are a Shadow of things to come (v17)

The context is verse 14 which is the blotting out of the handwriting of ordinances to the cross. What is the handwriting of ordinances that were nailed to the cross? The Greek work used here is δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree, ordinance.

So it is clear the context of Col 2:16-17 is the completion of the civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws of Moses which the writer says is finished and nailed to the cross.

Here is the actual Greek to English translation of the verses from the interlinear:

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Not therefore anyone you let judge in regards to food or in regards to drink or in regards to a feast (or festival) or a new moon or a Sabbath (plural).[SUP] 17[/SUP] which are a shadow of things coming but body of Christ.

The word rendered "holy-day" - ἑορτὴ heortē - in the Greek means a "feast" or "festival;"
Now, notice the key context within Col 2:16-17; No one is to judge you in regards to meat or drink, a feast (festival), or of the New Moon or of sabbath(s).

Context within Col 2:16-17:
(1) meat or drink
(2) feast or festival
(3) new moons
(4) sabbath(s)

So the overall context of Col 2:14-17 is in judging in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses (v 14)

Now let’s have a look at the Old Testament scriptures to see what Col 2 is talking about. Remember the overall context is in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses that were completed and nailed to the cross. If we can find references to the above context it will help us to understand what Col 2:14-17 is talking about because these are Shadows that pointed to Jesus.

Old Testament references to Col 2:14-17 compared:

Col 2:16-17,
Let no man therefore judge you in (1) meat, or in drink, or in respect of an (2) feast, or of the (3) new moon, or of the (4) sabbath(s): Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Eze 45:17-21,
It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the (1) burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the (2) feasts, the (3) new moons, and the (4) Sabbaths, at all the appointed (3) feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel. Thus says the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erred, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house. In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the Passover, a Feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

1Ch 23:31
and whenever burnt offerings were presented to the LORD on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moon (2) feasts and at the appointed festivals. They were to serve before the LORD regularly in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them.

2Ch 2:4,
Now I am about to build a temple for the Name of the LORD my God and to dedicate it to him for burning fragrant incense before him, for setting out the consecrated bread regularly, and for making burnt offerings every morning and evening and on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moons and at the appointed (2) festivals of the LORD our God. This is a lasting ordinance for Israel.

Hos 2:11,
I will stop all her celebrations: her (2) yearly festivals, her (3) New Moons, her (4) Sabbaths and all her (2) appointed festivals.

It is interesting to note in the Old Testament the word Sabbath (shabbath 7676 from shabath 7673 meaning “rest”) is not only used for the weekly Sabbath but is also applied to the first and last days of the annual Jewish Festivals. The monthly New Moon Sabbaths in relation to these festivals could fall on any day of the week. These were to start the beginning of the annual Jewish feasts. They were to be rest (Sabbath) days and restricted or no work was to be done. (Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

High Sabbaths, in most Christian and Messianic Jewish usage, are seven annual Biblical festivals and rest days, recorded in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42. The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles). Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. (In other systems, it was Nisan 14, i.e., weekly but not annual Sabbath.) The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).

All of the above have their origin from the ceremonial laws of Moses found in Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29. All these references are in connection to; (1) Food and Drink offerings, (2) Feast days, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast Sabbath(s)

So in summary, it should be very clear that Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses along with the annual Jewish feast days that all pointed to the coming of Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross the Jewish feasts along with the food and drink offerings, festivals and New Moon festival Sabbath(s) which all pointed to Jesus where a shadow of things to come.
What is the difference between God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment and the annual feast sabbath(s) of Col 2:16-17? To answer this question you need to understand the difference between God’s Law (10 commandments) and the laws of Moses. Let’s have a look at what that Word of God says.

To be continued...

 

[LoveGodForever]

Continued from above Part 2/2

God’s Law (10 commandments) had a similar (not same) role is it did in the Old Testament as it does in the New and that is;

(1) The first is God's Law (10 commandments). Its role was to point out what sin is but it was never a cure or a remedy for sins that were committed. God’s Law was the work of God alone. God wrote it with his own finger or two tables of stone. God spoke it himself personally to His people for all to hear. God separated His Law from all the laws written in the book of Moses and placed it in the Ark of the Covenant. The purpose of God's Law; was to point out sin and the penalty of sin (death). It was never a cure for sin just like it is in the New Covenant. It is the foundation of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant and the very foundation of the Judgement that each one of us will be judged by in the last days. God's Law is forever.

Scripture proof:
Ex 32:16; Ex 31:18; 31:18; Ex 20:1-22; Deut 10:5; Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23; Heb 7:19; Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Rev 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1John 3:5-8; 1John 2:3-4; Ecc 3:14

(2) On the other hand we have the laws of Moses (civil, Levitical and ceremonial). It’s role was the cure for sin. If someone sinned they had all these laws and burnt offerings and animal sacrifices that pointed to Jesus for the forgiveness of sin. It was to teach God’s people of God’s plan of salvation from sin. It did not show people what sin was God’s Law did this. These laws were the work of Moses. They were written by Moses as he was inspired by God for God's people under the Old Covenant. Moses wrote all these laws in a book. the laws of Moses were spoken by Moses. The book of Moses was placed in the side of the Ark of the Covenant and separated from God's Law. The purpose of the laws of Moses; was to describe God's plan of salvation from sin. The purpose of the laws of Moses was to provide a cure for sin through animal sacrifices, food and drink offerings, annual feast days connected to New Moons etc. The laws of Moses where a shadow of things to come that finished at the cross.

Scripture proof:
Lev 1:1-13; Lev 23:1-44; Num 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deut 24:10-11; Ex 24:3; Deut 31:24-26; Col 2:16-16; Heb 10:1; Eph 2:14-15; Lev 4; 5; 6; Heb 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29
God’s Law (10 commandments) had a similar (not same) role is it did in the Old Testament as it does in the New and that is to (1) point out what sin is and the punishment of sin which is death (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4). It was never a cure for sin. (2) The laws of Moses however were the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus as described in earlier posts.

Every reference your writer above used as well as your previous posts is in context to (1) burnt offerings; (2) Sabbaths held at the New Moon feasts and at the appointed festivals and (3) food and drink offerings. This is the same reference and context that Col 2:16-17 is also referring. Every one of the scriptures used by the writer all have their context to the annual feast days descibed in Leviticus Chapter 23; Numbers chapters 28 and 29. As mentioned earlier these were all done away at the cross because they were Shadows of an unfinished word that was completed at the death of Jesus (Col 2:16-17).
Let’s now look at what the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment actually says?

Exo 20:8-11,
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day.

Now please notice some key points;

Where does it say in the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment of God’s Law that we need to do (1) burnt offerings (2) keep the annual Sabbaths at the New Moons at the appointed festivals and (3) offer food and drink offerings? It does not because it is God’s Law that points out sin. It is the same Law that we have today and is forever because it was made by God himself and represents the character of God and is the knowledge of good and evil. It shows us what sin is (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23).

Now notice the last part of the commandment in Ex 20:11 this is the reason the commandment was given. (v11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day.This is a reference back to Gen 2:1-3
What does Genesis 2:1-3 teach us about God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments?
GEN 2
[SUP]1[/SUP]Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [SUP]2[/SUP]And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.[SUP] 3[/SUP]And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Scripture context points:
* God finished all the work of creation on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the week (v1)
* God ended His Work on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the creation week and rested from all His work of creation, it was completed no more work required (v2)
* God blessed the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day and set it apart as a holy day as a memorial of creation

Critical questions and answers:

When was God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath made, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind?
It was made BEFORE the fall of mankind at the end of the creation week on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day and was the result of a FINISHED work!

Was God’s work of creation a FINISHED WORK or an UNFUNISHED WORK?
The 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath was the result of the FINISHED AND COMPLETED WORK of creation!

When were God’s Laws and the laws of Moses given, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind? Obviously AFTER the fall of mankind (Ex 20:1-17, Lev 23:1-44, etc) they were part of God’s plan of salvation.
So in summary the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath is a memorial of the FINISHED work of creation and if it is a FINISHED work and a memorial of God’s creation that was given BEFORE the FALL of mankind before SIN had entered the world and before the plan of salvation was given to FALLEN man. If it was a part of a FINISHED work then it cannot be a Shadow of salvation because a Shadow was part of an UNFINISHED work given in the laws of Moses and was given AFTER the fall of mankind where the Sabbath was made before the fall.

Overall summary:
* Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses (v 14)

* The ceremonial laws of Moses included all the (1) food and drink offering, (2) feast days and festivals, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast sabbaths (v 16)

* These were all Shadows pointing to Jesus and were completed at His death (v14; 17)

* The in text context of Col 2:16 is referring to the Old Testament scriptures word for word in relation to the laws of Moses (Col 2:16-17; Eze 45:17-21; 1Ch 23:31; 2Ch 2:4; Hos 2:11; Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

* God’s Law (10 commandments) was the work of God himself and separate from every other law given to Israel. Its role was to point out sin

* The laws of Moses were to teach Israel the plan of salvation pointing to Jesus which was completed at the death of Jesus. It could not identify sin but its provided a cure for sin in animal sacrificed and burnt offerings and food and drink offerings which all pointed to Jesus (Col 2:14-17)

* Col 2:16 is referring to the annual New Moon ceremonial sabbaths connected to feast days and mean and drink offerings and not the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment of God’s Law.

* God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment is a reference to Gen 2:1-3 which is the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day of the creation week which was part of the FINISHED work creation given BEFORE the fall of mankind so cannot be a part of any Shadow plan of Salvation because its origin is in the FINISHED creation week BEFORE the fall.

Closing remarks:
Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man. He is the God of creation that made it for mankind. God commands us to keep the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath as a Holy day because he rested on this day. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. If we love him we must follow Him (Mark 2:27-28; John 14:15)
Hope this helps the faithful Bereans.

More scripture support? (linked):

Col 2 Sabbaths and Shadows of things to come (1)
Col 2 Sabbaths and Shadows of things to come (2)
Colossians 2 (Lev 23)

Scripture support on the difference between God's Law and the laws of Moses linked

God's Law and the laws of Moses (1)
God's Law and the laws of Moses (2)
God's Law and the laws of Moses (3)

God bless you all.

 

[gotime]

Why cast pearls before swine?
I cannot speak for Grandpa directly but G777 and I understand our Bible and theology very well.

As for you, the more detail you elaborate about your Scriptural understanding the more obvious it becomes just how weak your exegesis (actually eisegesis) really is!
I have read a fair bit of scholarly stuff originating from the SDA church trying to justify their positions and they are always criticised for the poor scholarship.

Face it gotime, you may be an SDA pastor but that hardly gives you either the moral or scholarly high ground.
One of the reasons I do not go into extensive detail in my posts on this thread is precisely because the actual level of understanding is so poor.
After all, all you are trying to do is defend a really dodgy doctrine that just happens to be the signature doctrine of the SDA church...

That being the case I will no longer reply to you after this nor will I give any ear to your posts as you have no intention of actual discussion that leads to any sort of understanding.

 

[oldethennew]

when we give our whole hearts to God, He will let us know what is acceptable to/for Him...
not this evil world's take...

 

[LoveGodForever]

I see that you still have not answered a simple question. It's a yes or no answer.
I will give you an example: Someone asks me if living a homosexual lifestyle is it sinning? I would say "Yes!" I will ask the question one more time in the hope that you would be honest with us. If not , then I will not ask again because your answer will be obvious and you are entitled to it. Be honest with us. Do you love Jesus? Jesus wants you to be honest with us. You are free in Christ to observe any day or feast as you choose. But just answer this one question: It's a yes or no answer. If a Christian doesn't follow the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament - are they sinning and dis-obeying God?

I see you have still not opened your eyes

God bless you

 

[LoveGodForever]

They are the same thing!!!!!!!
That is EXACTLY the point of Hebrews chapter 4!!!!!!!!

You are indeed the disciple of Grace777