Not By Works

[Meggido]

Nothing of our own doing will ever work for us. Do you expect yourself or anyone else to love God out of their own ability? Seriously ponder it.

Does God love us out of his ability?

 

[BillG]

The question is the prize at the end of the race of life...eternal life/salvation or a different crown?

I believe it's a different crown.

I view this world more of a battlefield than a race, with many injured brethren that need our help.

If I see it as a race, it would be a rally race with an injured loved one as our batton we pass towards home/God.

Yes Yes Yes.

We have many injured brethren that need our help.

What does the church do? It shoots its wounded.
Gossip, slander, buck up or ship out, don't do this, you lack faith, do penance and the list could go on.

We are all called to love each other and build each other up.
Restore each other in love, reprove if need by with the word of God.

We are meant to love those not in the church as well.

Why on earth want to be part of the church when the church can't even love itself.

With regard to the wounded and injured we need to get alongside, get behind the scenes.
We have no idea what is going on behind the heart of a person.
Until we are willing to do so, we such back off and not judge.

We need spiritual doctors and nurses and we need them quick.

 

[Stephen63]

I agree with you.

Just one question if you don't mind.

what do you mean by your first sentence in terms of "are only pieces of it? and how that relates to "we can only fulfill the law of Christ if we do so but loving God & our neighbor when we do it"

Ta

Bill

I would have never made that statement, Bill, if folks weren't running around saying "All we have to do is love God & our neighbor. That's what it means to obey Christ".

They constantly made it look like that's all there is, which it isn't.

Jesus taught us a great deal, then told us, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

Jesus NEVER just taught two commandments.

That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Meggido]

Godly works are the "gauge" of our faith, or others we see.

Jesus said we'll know them by their fruits (works).

How do you know one of you favorite preachers is a person of great faith? By his works, of course.

Matt 5.16-

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

Funny, most here like the light, but think its on a timer.......yeah that will preach...

Passive light is a lie from hell, as you well know...

 

[Stephen63]

Thanks for taking the time to put this post together G7, it's a hammer shot from Heaven.

Sure, copy/pasting from a known hypergrace site is a "hammer shot from heaven"..... right.

Do all those that put their "likes" on these post believe hypergrace too?

After all, folks "like" what they agree with, don't they?

 

[Grace777x70]

I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians.

Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.

Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.

They were babes in Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?


I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".

- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning. Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.

Nor told them that their loving Father was now going to throw them into hell.

What religious nonsense and it is from the enemy who's sole purpose is to get us to doubt the love and faithfulness of God in order that we would fall from grace and rely on our own works of righteousness.

 

[Sully]

Sure, copy/pasting from a known hypergrace site is a "hammer shot from heaven"..... right.

Do all those that put their "likes" on these post believe hypergrace too?

After all, folks "like" what they agree with, don't they?

I liked this post because I agree with every word. History is made.

 

[Stephen63]

It's a quote from a book as I said in the bottom of the post.

View attachment 172571


View attachment 172572

Quoted from a hypergrace site by Bill Johnson, a charismatic WOF hypergrace teacher.

Just stating the facts folks, just the facts.

 

[Grace777x70]

Matt 5.16-

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

Funny, most here like the light, but think its on a timer.......yeah that will preach...

Passive light is a lie from hell, as you well know...

The light bulb has no light of it's own. It needs electricity to generate the light that the electrical current gives it.

We too get this "electrical current" from the "sap" of His life in us being manifested in and through us. He is the Vine - we are the branches

John 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Keeping our eyes on Christ will manifest His life in and through us to a hurt and dying world so that they can see the love and grace of our loving Father and Lord have for them. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

True light will always shine forth once we get the religious nonsense out of our un-renewed minds so that Christ Himself will shine through us.

 

[Meggido]

Quoted from a hypergrace site by Bill Johnson, a charismatic WOF hypergrace teacher.

Just stating the facts folks, just the facts.

Johnson is NAR, not WOF....

 

[Grace777x70]

There is a massive difference between church discipline to protect the people and the Lord sending you to hell as can be seen by the letter Paul said to the 1 Corinthians.

Paul told them who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach.

Or that their loving Father will now throw them in the lake of fire. What total religious nonsense and that is straight from the enemy to get us to doubt the love, grace of God for us and for us to rely on our own self-efforts of works-based righteousness.

( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man is Christ really is. )

Paul told them who they were in Christ...Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.


1) The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,

2) The Corinthians were now saints by calling

3) The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,

4) The Corinthians had the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,

5) The Corinthians had that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ

6) The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ ( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness )

7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption


1 Corinthians 1:2-9 (NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,


Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only think that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12. The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32

 

[Stephen63]

Here is another way of viewing "What does it meant to abide in Christ?"

I like to use this website from time to time as it is grace-based on the finished work of Christ and those that believe our loving Father throws us into hell will be offended by it but we are not ashamed of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. "In it the righteousness of God is revealed" - not our own righteousness attempts.

It also has a place at the bottom for those that had questions on the article. I often learned from the others there posting as well as the original article.

John 15:6 – Abiding in the Vine

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. (Jn 15:6)

What does it mean to abide in the vine?

You need to have a good answer to that question because Jesus warned that there are consequences for not abiding in the vine. He also said that those who do abide in the vine will bear much fruit:

As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit. (Jn 15:4)

Many people interpret the words of Jesus as carrots and sticks. They think, if I fail to abide I will be cast out and burned, but if I do abide I will bear much fruit, so I’d better start bearing fruit.

Read it like this and Jesus’ words will become a law for you: produce or perish! And that’s going to be a problem because the fruit Jesus is looking for you can’t produce. Apart from Him the only thing you can produce is Frankenfruit!


In this short series on the commands of Jesus, we have seen that Jesus expects us to do impossible things, namely, He expects us to do the same works He did and greater works still.

Happily, He has promised that we will do these impossible things because He is in us and we are branches to His vine. Unfruitful branches are not chopped off, but are lifted up out of the dirt. This lifting up and the bearing of fruit in us is something that He does. So far, so good.

But what does it mean to abide or remain in Him? That sounds as if Jesus is putting conditions on us. It sounds like He is saying, you have to do something otherwise you’ll be tossed and burned. But what is the something we must do?

I guarantee you that any list of somethings that man comes up with will include keep short accounts with God or confess your sins. This is a classic example of watering down scripture to accommodate human shortcomings. You want something to do? Try this:

Whoever abides in Him does not sin. (1 Jn 3:6, NKJV)


What does God expect of those who abide in Him? Zero sin! Yet many people believe, “whoever abides in Him may sin occasionally – after all, we’re only human – but as long as we quickly confess our sin God will be faithful and just and forgive us our sin.”

Well God is faithful and just but you can’t use His goodness to wriggle out of 1 John 3:6. You can’t lower His standards to accommodate your less-than-perfect performance.


A line in the sand





I occasionally get emails from people who are opposed to the gospel of grace. They say we must do everything in the Bible or at least everything that Jesus says. Well Jesus said, “be perfect” (Mt 5:8) – how’s that working out for you? I might just as easily respond with the words of John:

No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. (1 Jn 3:6, NIV)

I love this! This verse deals life to those who trust Jesus and utter condemnation to those who don’t.

It draws a big fat line in the sand and shouts, “Choose your Savior!” To those who are trusting in their own good behavior this verse declares, “Your best is not good enough. God expects sinless perfection.”

Either you must be perfect or you must put your faith in a perfect, representative. Guess who! Jesus is our perfect High Priest (Heb 7:28)! We stand on His sinless performance, not our own.

A promise, not a condition

Jesus told the disciples, you are in me (our imperfections are hidden in His perfection) and I am in you (we carry His sinless DNA). Jesus didn’t sin and He won’t ever sin.

If you let Him live His life through you, then without any conscious effort on your part you’re going to start talking and acting just like sinless Jesus. This is a glorious promise for all who believe:

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (1 Jn 3:9)

So what does it mean to abide in the vine? Here’s the answer we’ve all been waiting for…

Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. (1 Jn 4:15)

Have you confessed that Jesus is the Son of God? Then God abides in you and you in Him. You may wonder, But how did this happen? All I did was confess.

Well you could not have believed and confessed Jesus as Lord unless the Holy Spirit had led you to do so (1 Cor 12:3). The work and the glory are all His. Rest in that!

The trouble is, you can’t rest because somewhere inside there is a little voice that’s asking, Can I abide today and not abide tomorrow? Can I be in the vine one moment and cut off the next? Why would Jesus tell his disciples to abide if there wasn’t any danger of not abiding?

The problem, as usual, is found between our ears. Most of us have grown up with a slave mentality that says our value is determined by what we do. This was certainly true of the disciples who had been born and bred under the law.

They were conditioned to think in terms of their performance. This works mindset is also evident in some of our English translations:

Remain in me, and I will remain in you. (Jn 15:4, NIV)

Again, that sounds like a condition. It sounds like Jesus is saying, if your abiding performance is up to scratch, then I will reward you by abiding as well.

But it is not a condition to make us sweat; it is a promise to make us rest. In John 15 Jesus goes to great lengths to counter the law-mentality of the disciples. He does this by hitting them with promise after promise:

As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. (Jn 15:9)

How does the Father love Jesus? Ask yourself this question: How many miracles or works had Jesus done when the Father declared from heaven, “this is my beloved Son?” None!

The Father loves Jesus unconditionally, without any reference to His performance or fruit. That means that Jesus loves us unconditionally! He wants us to rest in His unconditional love.




You’re free? Be free!

Just to recap – if you think abiding is something we must do, then understand that the evidence of abiding is zero sin. This is humanly impossible.

The only logical response to the command “abide!” is to trust in Jesus and His performance and quit trying to impress Him with yours.

The word “abide” connotes “rest” and “surrender,” not “struggle” and “try harder.”

Trust God, the abiding issue is all settled from His side. “Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him.” But it may not be settled from your side. You may still be struggling with that old servant mentality.

Instead of rest there is insecurity. Instead of joy there is anxiety. Am I in? Can I be cut off? If this is you, let Jesus speak to your insecurity:

I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. (Jn 8:34-36)

The reality is, you are free indeed because Jesus has set you free. The reality is, you are abiding in the vine because you have confessed Him as Lord. But you may not be experiencing that reality.

You may feel like you’re not free or you’re not abiding. Although you are a son with a permanent place in the family, you may still think and act like the slave that you used to be.

There’s only one solution: renew your mind! Stop living by feelings and start walking by faith. You are abiding in fact, so start abiding in practice.

When Jesus said, “anyone who does not abide in Me is cast out as a branch, withers, and is thrown into the fire,” He was not referring to fruitless Christians. (They are lifted up.)

He was describing those who refuse to believe to that He is the Son of God. He was describing those who are looking for life outside of the true vine.

If you have confessed Jesus as your Lord, then walk in that the truth: You are free, God Himself abides in you, and as a son or daughter you have a permanent place in His family.

Thank you Jesus!

Unquote:

Here is the link to the questions at the bottom that others have asked if anyone wants to see them.

https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/08/john-15v6_abide-in-the-vine/

Aaannd people wonder why I reply many of G777's posts.

G777 is hypergrace 100%, 24/7.

People say I'm wrong for constantly pointing it out even though hypergrace is a known false doctrine.

I would rather someone else would do it so I wouldn't have to.

It's NOT one man's job. It's the responsibility of the church, not just little ole' me.

 

[Grace777x70]

I wonder if this "Christian" thing has anything to do with "grace" that is in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior?


It looks like we have received - grace upon grace through the Lord Jesus Christ

John 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.



It looks like we "believe through grace"..

( I'm sure they really meant that we are saved because of the good works we do...)

Acts 18:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:



Paul said that it was the grace of God that would give the believers their inheritance and it was able to build them up.

( Maybe that's not really important...)

Acts 20:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.



Paul said for Timothy to be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

( He probably didn't really mean it.... )


2 Timothy 2:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.



The apostles said that we are saved by the grace of God

( They probably really meant to say - you are saved by works that we do or don't do.)

Acts 15:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."



Paul says that we are justified "freely" by grace....

(He really meant to say - we are justified and continue to be saved by all the good works we do... We are justified "freely" because of what Christ has done but your Father is going to throw you into hell if you don't grow up.... )

Romans 3:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:



Paul says that when we receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness - we reign in life through Christ alone.

( He really meant to say that - those who do good works all the days of their life will receive grace and the gift of righteousness )

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.



Then Paul was really messed up when he told the Ephesians this scripture below-

( He really meant to say - you must do good works in order to create and maintain salvation - Paul was just having an "off" day when he wrote Ephesians )

( And God has even prepared the good works for us to walk in as a result of having His grace that saves us and not any works - we get to participate in the family business of telling people of the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them )


Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


Here Paul told Timothy that God saved us according to His own purpose and grace - not according to our works.

( He really meant to say - He will save us if we do enough good works...again Paul was having an "off" day )

2 Timothy 1:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,



Peter says to fix our hope "completely" on the grace that comes with the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

( It's most likely a mis-print in all 5,000 manuscripts - he really meant to tell us to fix our hope on our good works because you could end up in hell if you don't do enough of them..)

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.


Conclusion - this "grace stuff" is really not important at all. We can "do our own works of righteousness in order to keep ourselves saved" - and God will be happy with us....yeah right!.......

 

[JIMBO43]

Jesus came over 2000 years ago....so He came before our faith in Him.

It wasnt a trick question mrs aerial... i wreckon you have to have some faith befor the son comes.. what do you wreckon ? so i feal first comes the word as in the beginning was the word.... then comes the father then comes the son and then comes the holy spirit meaning you are given a new heart and new mind that is like all three the father the son and then the holy spirit.. just my two sence..

 

[Meggido]

The light bulb has no light of it's own. It needs electricity to generate the light that the electrical current gives it.

We too get this "electrical current" from the "sap" of His life in us being manifested in and through us. He is the Vine - we are the branches

John 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Keeping our eyes on Christ will manifest His life in and through us to a hurt and dying world so that they can see the love and grace of our loving Father and Lord have for them. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

True light will always shine forth once we get the religious nonsense out of our un-renewed minds so that Christ Himself will shine through us.

Bruce, many here believe once they are saved that is is it and everything else is a "passive" work of Christ....

Jesus and the Bible never teach he only passively works in you....this is the very reason why discipleship is maligned and marginalized and why you and others suggest a tree does not not have to produce fruit....

This is because the current you describe the light bulb needs is not Jesus, it is the Holy Spirit...someone I think even the OSAS crowd has marginalized down to a .49 stamp....


The deception that the Passive work of Christ is all you need to mature in Christ is a lie from hell... I am sorry if you disagree....

Ole Joe Prince said last night on his program that he was teaching a few things wrong...he said the passive work of Christ is not needed now, because my friend, I never saw this before, but we are made perfect in spirit, soul and body by the blood....and never have to confess our sins any more...passive work means you are not made perfect and puts Christ back on the cross...second, tongues will heal you and make you look,act and be younger than your age...if you pray in tongues and take communion your physical healing is manifested instantly....


Passive work alone is a deception....

 

[JIMBO43]

so question if one is saved by grace then is grace only given once ?

 

[FranC]

Aaannd people wonder why I reply many of G777's posts.

G777 is hypergrace 100%, 24/7.

People say I'm wrong for constantly pointing it out even though hypergrace is a known false doctrine.

I would rather someone else would do it so I wouldn't have to.

It's NOT one man's job. It's the responsibility of the church, not just little ole' me.

Hey Stephen,

This thread moves too fast for me,

But I'm with you all the way.

The thing about Hyper Grace is that some of it is true.
It's true that we're depending on Jesus.
It's true that He imputes HIS righteousness onto us.

But there is so much there that is NOT true or biblically correct that it just
wipes out everything else.

God's grace is sufficient for us.
Hyper Grace should not even exist.

What some here don't seem to realize is that there are TWO steps to salvation.

First you have to GET SAVED. Otherwise you're out of the Kingdom. Lost. No spirit in you. No zoe life which only Jesus could give.

Second, you have to keep yourself in the Kingdom. You have to do what Jesus wants you to do there.
Some think you tie a hammock to two trees and just do NOTHING the rest of your life.

This is not what Jesus taught.
WORKS is a GOOD word.
WE are God's hands and feet --- to go and to do.

He's not coming down here to do it all for us.

And if we DON'T do what He says, HE IS STILL GOD.

God Always demanded obedience.

Deuteronomy 30:15
30:19
Joshua 24:15

IT'S THE SAME GOD!!!

Choose this day whom you will SERVE.

SERVE.

 

[dcontroversal]

so question if one is saved by grace then is grace only given once ?

Grace is a position.....it is fluent, it is pro-active and out bounds our sin-----it is entirely from God......

In the grace YOU ARE, having been saved out of faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of GOD, not of works lest any man should boast.

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

Where sin abounds, GRACE did much more abound.

 

[Stephen63]

So, those that hear the message of Christ and believe in Christ in their heart - are then sealed with the Holy Spirit and these "abide/remain/and stay in Christ".

This isn't true at all. Both Jesus & Paul give commands to abide in Christ to the church.

Why these commands when G777 says we are permanently sealed & permanently remain?

There is a vast difference between universalism which says that all dogs go to heaven and a universal atonement. One must believe in Christ in order to receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness. Rom. 5:17

There's one difference between easy believeism & Universalism.

It repeating the sinner's prayer.

Search it yourself, dear readers. I would like to know if there IS anything else.

 

[Stephen63]

Nothing of our own doing will ever work for us. Do you expect yourself or anyone else to love God out of their own ability? Seriously ponder it.

I neither said nor implied that.