A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

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Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Yes, God does tell Abe about the 400 years, after saying

GENESIS 15:7 to give you this land to inherit it.

he says
GENESIS 15:13 Know for sure that your seed will live as foreigners in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them.

They will afflict them four hundred years.




so, if God makes you a promise, he will do it,

but maybe not in your lifetime.
Well after asking you about the 2000 years, I have looked hunted and asked. Not one thing about it that I can find. I was really hopping you had something, no matter how dim a light it shined. Well can't win them all.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Gen 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

I am shocked that this was not picked up already by any one. As we can see from the passages above, Yeshua was the seed that HaShem told Satan about. in Gen 3. May don't think about this, why I am not sure, After all, is this not what we should be finding of interest. To think that HaShem had already set this plan in action, before man was even on this earth.
He know, that we would never find salvation on our own. He know that the first system would be corrupted by man, and there was need for one that man had nothing to do with. Yet in His loving kindness, He gave man a chance to show that we are not all bad. What did man do with that? The same thing most men do with everything, we looked for a way to make money off it. Even if it meant cheating.
I have no intention of getting into that at all, as I simply don't like to bash folks for what they do. It is not our job to judge man, that is in His hands.
Yet,
1Co 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

Now do we really think we have the right to stand in judgment over angels? I know that is a bit off topic, yet by the end of this study I will ask this once more. Only next time, I will be giving my thoughts on this one. Hint, it is not what many may think.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Gen 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

I am shocked that this was not picked up already by any one. As we can see from the passages above, Yeshua was the seed that HaShem told Satan about. in Gen 3. May don't think about this, why I am not sure, After all, is this not what we should be finding of interest. To think that HaShem had already set this plan in action, before man was even on this earth.
He know, that we would never find salvation on our own. He know that the first system would be corrupted by man, and there was need for one that man had nothing to do with. Yet in His loving kindness, He gave man a chance to show that we are not all bad. What did man do with that? The same thing most men do with everything, we looked for a way to make money off it. Even if it meant cheating.
I have no intention of getting into that at all, as I simply don't like to bash folks for what they do. It is not our job to judge man, that is in His hands.
Yet,
1Co 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

Now do we really think we have the right to stand in judgment over angels? I know that is a bit off topic, yet by the end of this study I will ask this once more. Only next time, I will be giving my thoughts on this one. Hint, it is not what many may think.
not sure if its been mentioned yet but there are illusions to Revelation 12:

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Well after asking you about the 2000 years, I have looked hunted and asked. Not one thing about it that I can find. I was really hopping you had something, no matter how dim a light it shined. Well can't win them all.
must be one of those 'valleys' that the prophets didn't see. :D


so, imo, from the time Israel goes into captivity around 600 bce until 1948 they don't really 'posses' the land, though they often live in it.

also big question in my mind is whether the present nation of Israel is actually Israel, since they maybe don't have a son of David on the throne.
 
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Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,534
87
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must be one of those 'valleys' that the prophets didn't see. :D


so, imo, from the time Israel goes into captivity around 600 bce until 1948 they don't really 'posses' the land, though they often live in it.

also big question in my mind is whether the present nation of Israel is actually Israel, since they maybe don't have a son of David on the throne.
In 1948 they didn't have DNA testing, so they went with a democracy. It has been side that it is better for them, as there is not one person to become corrupted by power. As we know full well from History, most monarchy systems tend to do. The Bible shows this many times over in Israels history. In my mind this was is why HaShem warned them in 1 Sam. 8:9-19 about would become of the king they wanted. Sadly, it held true for almost every one of them.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Gen 13:1 Then Abram went up from Egypt, he and his wife and all that he had, and Lot with him, to the South.
Gen 13:2 Abram was very rich in livestock, in silver, and in gold.

Some say that Abram got this wealth from Pharaoh. though it is made clear that some of it may well have come from there, we can't be so sure that all of it had. After all we are never told what Abram left his home with.
Gen 13:5 Lot also, who went with Abram, had flocks and herds and tents.
Gen 13:6 Now the land was not able to support them, that they might dwell together, for their possessions were so great that they could not dwell together.
Gen 13:8 So Abram said to Lot, “Please let there be no strife between you and me, and between my herdsmen and your herdsmen; for we are brethren.
Gen 13:10 And Lot lifted his eyes and saw all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered everywhere (before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah) like the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt as you go toward Zoar.
Gen 13:11 Then Lot chose for himself all the plain of Jordan, and Lot journeyed east. And they separated from each other.

Now at first this may well have seemed like a good idea. After all, by what is said here, Lot picked the land that wouls best fill his needs, and let his flocks and herds grow in umber. However I bet he was wishing he could turn back the hands of time, so he could have a do over. We are not told flat out that Lot lost everything he had, yet as he was rushed away from Sodom, it does not seem as though he had time to get his things together.

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[TD] Gen 13:14 And the LORD said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: “Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are—northward, southward, eastward, and westward;
Gen 13:15 “for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever.
Gen 13:16 “And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered.
Gen 13:17 “Arise, walk in the land through its length and its width, for I give it to you.”
Gen 13:18 Then Abram moved his tent, and went and dwelt by the terebinth trees of Mamre, which are in Hebron, and built an altar there to the LORD.

Having been to Israel, and ridden in a bus, (not walked) the land from top to bottom, and east to west. That my friends would be a lot of walking. Abram would need more than one pair of saddles for that let me tell you. There is one thing I made note of when I was their. When entering any land under Muslim control, there was hardly anything growing. Yet when the land was under Jewish control, there was no shortage of crops, tree, and in some paces grass. Yet at the same time, one can't help to note the stark difference in what you see, and how it seen for the eyes of the Bible.
We also may note that here the land is given to his descendants, FOREVER. I asked a question above, that I was in real hopes of getting an answer to. Yet like myself, it seems there is not to be found.
This is the reason I asked. If the land is Israels, forever, why then do they work so hard to keep from pulling the land under their control, with the Temple mount and all?
If you follow replacement theology, you may have learned that HaShem remove Israel, and replaced them with the church. That this is why there is a church on the Temple mount, and no one wants it removed. Yet at the same time, when you stand on the Temple mount, there is a church, yet it is really more a mosque. Though at one time, both the dome of the rock, and the mosque, were turned into churchs, they didn't last all that long. Around 100 years if that. So even though you may hear there is a church up there, that is misleading. It is done to help make the PLO look more kind and carting.





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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
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As for the NKJ, yes I am 100% sure. It was copied and paste from Blue letter Bible, click on the Bule part that gives the pasage and you will see.
Did you even review the copyright owner's website to see if the verses you copied and pasted from the Blue Letter Bible were in fact the actual text of NKJV translation which was copyrighted? All you had to do was go to the copyrighted owners website and reviewed their text compared with the source you cited. Blue Letter Bible is not the owner of the copyright for the NKJV.

----------------------------------------------------------------
The Blue Letter Bible Project is an initiative of Sowing Circle, a United States-based, non-denominational Christian ministry, who have created a Study Bible in both CD format and for the internet.

Sowing Circle, a California 501(c)(3) Private Operating Foundation (Corporation), was founded in November 1995.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Letter_Bible
------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright Information

The text from the New King James Version® (NKJV®) may be quoted in any form (written, visual, electronic or audio), up to and inclusive of 500 verses or less without written permission, providing the verses quoted do not amount to a complete book of the Bible, nor do verses quoted account for 25% or more of the total text of the work in which they are quoted, and the verses are not being quoted in a commentary or other biblical reference work.

For churches requesting to use a small selection of material for church bulletins, sermons or classroom use that falls within our “gratis use” guidelines, formal written permission is not necessary. Churches may use stand-alone quotations/scriptures in sermons, bulletins, newsletters, or projected in a worship setting without asking written permission provided the translation is correctly cited.
This permission is contingent upon an appropriate copyright acknowledgment as follows:
Scripture taken from the New King James Version®. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson. Used by permission. All rights reserved.



Last. I am not going to wast my time with people that seem to be looking for a fight, so this will be my last reply to any of this kind.
"It is error only not truth which shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine



 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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87
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Did you even review the copyright owner's website to see if the verses you copied and pasted from the Blue Letter Bible were in fact the actual text of NKJV translation which was copyrighted? All you had to do was go to the copyrighted owners website and reviewed their text compared with the source you cited. Blue Letter Bible is not the owner of the copyright for the NKJV.

----------------------------------------------------------------
The Blue Letter Bible Project is an initiative of Sowing Circle, a United States-based, non-denominational Christian ministry, who have created a Study Bible in both CD format and for the internet.

Sowing Circle, a California 501(c)(3) Private Operating Foundation (Corporation), was founded in November 1995.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Letter_Bible
------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright Information

The text from the New King James Version® (NKJV®) may be quoted in any form (written, visual, electronic or audio), up to and inclusive of 500 verses or less without written permission, providing the verses quoted do not amount to a complete book of the Bible, nor do verses quoted account for 25% or more of the total text of the work in which they are quoted, and the verses are not being quoted in a commentary or other biblical reference work.

For churches requesting to use a small selection of material for church bulletins, sermons or classroom use that falls within our “gratis use” guidelines, formal written permission is not necessary. Churches may use stand-alone quotations/scriptures in sermons, bulletins, newsletters, or projected in a worship setting without asking written permission provided the translation is correctly cited.
This permission is contingent upon an appropriate copyright acknowledgment as follows:
Scripture taken from the New King James Version®. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson. Used by permission. All rights reserved.





"It is error only not truth which shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine



It is not inquiry that I I avoid, rather argument. As i stated, go back and read the post that got you on this road, and you will find your answers.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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It is not inquiry that I I avoid, rather argument. As i stated, go back and read the post that got you on this road, and you will find your answers.
Almost forgot, I looked it up in my NKJ, and also looked at may other passages that will be used, and like I said, I am 100% sure. That is my hard cover paper in hand, where one must use their hands to turn the page.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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In 1948 they didn't have DNA testing, so they went with a democracy. It has been side that it is better for them, as there is not one person to become corrupted by power. As we know full well from History, most monarchy systems tend to do. The Bible shows this many times over in Israels history. In my mind this was is why HaShem warned them in 1 Sam. 8:9-19 about would become of the king they wanted. Sadly, it held true for almost every one of them.
right!

so current Israel may not be heir to the promises given to Biblical Israel,

like always having a son of David as king.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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on the subject of copyrights,

I like to copy-paste from the modern public domain

https://ebible.org/engwebp/


the only bummer is that he does the Yahweh thing instead of following the pattern of the apostles.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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right!

so current Israel may not be heir to the promises given to Biblical Israel,

like always having a son of David as king.
That was never a part the covenant, made with Abram. So I see no reason why not having the blood line of David as king would change anything. Beside, HaShem really didn't want them to have a king in the first place.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,534
87
48
on the subject of copyrights,

I like to copy-paste from the modern public domain

https://ebible.org/engwebp/


the only bummer is that he does the Yahweh thing instead of following the pattern of the apostles.
I don't think I understand what you mean. Though Yahway is not the right way to say HaShems name, the apostles would have spoken Hebrew, and hens would have used the Hebrew name. Although I do use the Hebrew title,( as HaShem is not a name) I also know that this is just out of habit. Like I have said many times in my life, HaShem knows all the languages on earth, so He knows if we are speaking of him or not.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
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That was never a part the covenant, made with Abram. So I see no reason why not having the blood line of David as king would change anything. Beside, HaShem really didn't want them to have a king in the first place.
right, not part of the Abram covenant


but promised in some places


2 SAMUEL 7:16 Your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before you.

Your throne shall be established forever.”’”
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I don't think I understand what you mean. Though Yahway is not the right way to say HaShems name, the apostles would have spoken Hebrew, and hens would have used the Hebrew name. Although I do use the Hebrew title,( as HaShem is not a name) I also know that this is just out of habit. Like I have said many times in my life, HaShem knows all the languages on earth, so He knows if we are speaking of him or not.
when writing (and translating the ot),

the apostles always used a title

the master

never some form of yhwh.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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why does it matter if we call God HaShem?

for me, it would be breaking with the inspired tradition of the apostles

and replacing it with a Jewish tradition.

for me, that would be a dangerous path to start on.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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must be one of those 'valleys' that the prophets didn't see. :D


so, imo, from the time Israel goes into captivity around 600 bce until 1948 they don't really 'posses' the land, though they often live in it.

also big question in my mind is whether the present nation of Israel is actually Israel, since they maybe don't have a son of David on the throne.
Christ, in the line of David is king of Israel.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Christ, in the line of David is king of Israel.
yes, an invisible, spiritual throne

the nation of Israel today has a different physical government... so maybe not true Israel.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,534
87
48
why does it matter if we call God HaShem?

for me, it would be breaking with the inspired tradition of the apostles

and replacing it with a Jewish tradition.

for me, that would be a dangerous path to start on.
Wheren't the Apostles Jewish? Being as they lived as Jewish people, and used Hebrew as their first language, how can we say they didn't follow Jewish tradition, to a large %. After all, it was their life, what they did before Yeshua, and for many I am sure it was their life after as well.

Like you I see no reason to try to force others to follow a habit that comes from Years of study under the Rabbi's I have spent time under. After as I said, HaShem created all languages on earth, He also knows ones heart. So He does know what we say, no matter what words are used.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,534
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yes, an invisible, spiritual throne

the nation of Israel today has a different physical government... so maybe not true Israel.
I have seen many times where people try to say the people in Israel now are not from the family of Abraham. They use many things to show this, yet as DNA is used to find out if a person is or isn't, that has dropped off a lot.
Israel is what it is. They are His people, no matter what they do with government.