Not By Works

[royalscot]

your family, live because of war. pity it was a human army, that stop you.
it is good to come in last place,only after you killed half the world , trying to prove the meaning of soldier,, death understands,yesterday for a reason, it can not understand the future . if it can read. (death) who taugh death to read, etc

 

[Grace777x70]

True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man look on the outward appearance.

Getting "saved" is simple but it is not cheap - It cost our Lord His life and Blood to "obtain eternal salvation" for us. Hebrews 9:12

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The process is simple too.

1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him

2) we believe the message from our hearts

3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit

( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1)

the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2)

you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past.

Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.

 

[royalscot]

copy and pasting, other peoples work, only shows, what a pea brain, you are. with no concern, to your own down fall , i will copy and paste, other peopless work ,regardless. only because god ,made you singular, with only you on the planet.
now you can ,look away , and not read this post, a middle idex finger, was not the place, for a wedding ring. (the seven day event) when there is a day of rest. what happened to the missing day repentance.

 

[royalscot]

True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man look on the outward appearance.

Getting "saved" is simple but it is not cheap - It cost our Lord His life and Blood to "obtain eternal salvation" for us. Hebrews 9:12

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The process is simple too.

1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him

2) we believe the message from our hearts

3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit

( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1)

the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2)

you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past.

Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.

what do you believe, has nothing to do with a bible belief, truth never killed me.

 

[PHart]

Do you know that under the Levitical Law there was no sacrifice for someone purposefully and willfully transgressing the law of God?

Yes, I know that is what the author is alluding to:

...he will boast, saying, ‘I have peace though I walk in the stubbornness of my heart in order to destroy the watered land with the dry.’ 20“The LORD shall never be willing to forgive him, but rather the anger of the LORD and His jealousy will burn against that man..." (Deuteronomy 29:19-20 NASB)

Under the law there is no forgiveness for the man who willingly walks in the stubbornness of his heart. All he'll get is the wrath of God. How much more so for the man who does that in this New Covenant:

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:26-31 NASB)

​

But the church teaches us that the passage is saying "how much not so severe, in fact never, in this New Covenant", but we can plainly see from the passage that willful turning away in stubborn, willful unbelief is NOT one of the things that can be forgiven in this New Covenant that could not be forgiven in the old covenant. We have been led astray by the OSAS indoctrination of a blind and deaf leadership that has made it so we can not see the plain words of scripture right under our noses.

 

[dcontroversal]

True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man look on the outward appearance.

Getting "saved" is simple but it is not cheap - It cost our Lord His life and Blood to "obtain eternal salvation" for us. Hebrews 9:12

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The process is simple too.

1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him

2) we believe the message from our hearts

3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit

( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1)

the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2)

you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past.

Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.

Notice it states sealed unto the day of redemption.....the workers for read the word like this...ALL THE BOLDED EMBELLISHED TO EQUATE TO A WORKERS FOR SALVATION.

Sealed unto the day of redemption....unless _______ blah blah blah.....

Saved unto the uttermost...unless ________ blah, blah, blah

He that believes on the son is having temporary live based upon what he does or does not do.....

If you confess with your mouth the Lord JESUS you might be saved if you ________......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that do many wonderful works, is immersed, a member of hickory stick church, never sins, back flips down the isle and speaks in 16 different tongues while being slain in the spirit and walking on water at least 2 times and to really cap it off if they sing 57 verses of We'll Work Till Jesus Comes it adds 10 extra mediations by Jesus........

 

[UnderGrace]

Well your plain sense reading means you interpret it from your own frame of reference and bias....where is the word unbelief?

These words are written to bring courage and exhortation to the Hebrews, to carry forward under great duress and persecution because Jesus has obtained a more excellent ministry, greater than Melchisedec, assuring the reader plainly that it is impossible to be renewed again unto repentance meaning it can only be done once, never to be repeated thereby assuring our salvation because other wise it shames the cross of Christ saying His work was insufficient Hebrews 6:4 ..... instead you read condemnation.

It is those that insult the spirit of grace that will receive the greater punishment....and punishment does not always mean damnation..but of course in plain reading it does, especially when one is looking for it.

Yes, I know that is what the author is alluding to:

...he will boast, saying, ‘I have peace though I walk in the stubbornness of my heart in order to destroy the watered land with the dry.’ 20“The LORD shall never be willing to forgive him, but rather the anger of the LORD and His jealousy will burn against that man..." (Deuteronomy 29:19-20 NASB)

Under the law there is no forgiveness for the man who willingly walks in the stubbornness of his heart. All he'll get is the wrath of God. How much more so for the man who does that in this New Covenant:

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:26-31 NASB)

​

But the church teaches us that the passage is saying "how much not so severe, in fact never, in this New Covenant", but we can plainly see from the passage that willful turning away in stubborn, willful unbelief is NOT one of the things that can be forgiven in this New Covenant that could not be forgiven in the old covenant. We have been led astray by the OSAS indoctrination of a blind and deaf leadership that has made it so we can not see the plain words of scripture right under our noses.

 

[dcontroversal]

Well your plain sense reading means you interpret it from your own frame of reference and bias....where is the word unbelief?

These words are written to bring courage and exhortation to the Hebrews, to carry forward under great duress and persecution because Jesus has obtained a more excellent ministry, greater than Melchisedec, assuring the reader plainly that it is impossible to be renewed again unto repentance meaning it can only be done once, never to be repeated thereby assuring our salvation because other wise it shames the cross of Christ saying His work was insufficient Hebrews 6:4 ..... instead you read condemnation.

It is those that insult the spirit of grace that will receive the greater punishment....and punishment does not always mean damnation..but of course in plain reading it does, especially when one is looking for it.

Amen....I agree for sure

 

[Burninglight]

history has a death warrent,etc i am to shy to look whos name is on it.

that makes two of us

 

[PeterJens]

Ok, i'm gonna need graphs, and pie charts to understand this. Peter, please present all the ins and outs detailing how hearts of flesh are detectable externally by the likes of us mere mortals and how they differ from hearts of stone.

If you do not know what a heart of stone is, maybe you do not see beyond your own interests.

 

[PeterJens]

I wonder if when you find someone carries a wound, deep in their hearts, against a group, who
they feel betrayed them and wasted their life, and they dedicate themselves to weeding this
group out, that maybe this is about hurt, bitterness and revenge.

They then construct a device to identify these "wolves" as they call them, to expose them for
who they are. This all makes sense, and it is true, the straw man will catch people out, except
if these people are not as described, motivated and reacting as lost evil unbelievers, hypocrites
driven by demons, it all falls apart.

I remember feeling such animosity towards my church, yet it came from disappointment and rejection
over things they neither saw nor understood. But my mind found excuses and motivations, yet what
the truth was needy people who did the best they could based on where they were.

Until I know the balance of a person, who am I to say anything about them. Now anyone who comes
to this forum is a driven person, someone who takes faith seriously. And it is unlikely they are driven
by evil but rather success in their faith and a desire to learn and share. So I suggest those who want
only to criticise and discourage actually see very little in the contributors or care to know individuals, but
rather to just label, box and demand their view dominates. Unfortunately that is domination and
dictatorship rather than respect, listening and making a contribution.

 

[PeterJens]

It is those that insult the spirit of grace that will receive the greater punishment....

???? the spirit of grace does not exist so you cannot insult it.

Jesus shows His grace to us, in dying upon the cross for the forgiveness of our sins.

Once grace becomes who God is, things go wrong. Grace works in the world of love, truth and
justice and brings salvation, but it does not change love, truth and justice, because that is
corruption and evil.

If you cannot distinguish between having a child who hurts you, and you bringing reality to bear
on them, but show love and forgiveness, and just forgiving them without expecting any change
of behaviour, you miss who God actually is. If you forgive without change, you condone and encourage
the behaviour to continue. I have seen families who operate like this, and everything falls apart.

 

[Grace777x70]

Isaiah 43:13

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“From eternity to eternity I am God.
No one can snatch anyone out of my hand.
No one can undo what I have done.”

Those that have been truly "born from above" cannot "un-born" themselves by an act of their own un-renewed minds and sick thinking and "un-do" what God in Christ has done. It's religious nonsense.

 

[PeterJens]

Isaiah 43:13

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“From eternity to eternity I am God.
No one can snatch anyone out of my hand.
No one can undo what I have done.”

Those that have been truly "born from above" cannot "un-born" themselves by an act of their own un-renewed minds and sick thinking and "un-do" what God in Christ has done. It's religious nonsense.

Notice the straw man. Leaving Christ is seen as undoing something God has done.
God gives us life, but we can commit suicide? But this is not taking away our lives
because that is impossible in this proposition.

Now listen to Jesus.

I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15:5-6

Life is maintained, continued by abiding in Christ. We all know each day, each step
that must be taken.

Think of the people of Israel rescued through the baptism of the red sea, yet they rebelled
and many died.

Korah and his rebellion, thinking he knew God, yet Gods judgement fell on him.
In this scenario he was still saved, though opposing the will of God itself.

So sin in this world is not a problem or direct rebellion against the King.

 

[gb9]

Notice the straw man. Leaving Christ is seen as undoing something God has done.
God gives us life, but we can commit suicide? But this is not taking away our lives
because that is impossible in this proposition.

Now listen to Jesus.

I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15:5-6

Life is maintained, continued by abiding in Christ. We all know each day, each step
that must be taken.

Think of the people of Israel rescued through the baptism of the red sea, yet they rebelled
and many died.

Korah and his rebellion, thinking he knew God, yet Gods judgement fell on him.
In this scenario he was still saved, though opposing the will of God itself.

So sin in this world is not a problem or direct rebellion against the King.

definition of abide- to bear patiently , to endure without yielding , to accept without rejection, to remain stable in a fixed state, to continue in a place.

nothing about doing enough good works to maintain salvation. good works are a result in the BELIEF and acceptance of Christ.

learn what words mean instead of just throwing them around.

 

[Grace777x70]

Abiding in Christ is a "position" that we are in because we are in Christ and Christ is in us when we believe the message of Him. Eph 1:13.

Jesus' work on the cross included the whole world but we still must believe in order to receive of His finished work on all of our behalf.

All the world has been set apart for the gospel and all have been included in Christ's work on the cross. However, they need to "receive" the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in order to "remain/abide/stay" in Christ. Rom. 5:17

Jesus is simply saying "Without Me you can do nothing"...so remain/abide in Him and all that He has already done for us as He is our life.

Abiding in Him means to stand in what He has done and who He is because we are one with Him.

It is NOT a work that one does. This is called works-righteousness.

He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. We are one with Him now in our inner man of the heart created in righteousness and holiness.

1 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.


Sin no more separates the believer in Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

Sin is stupid and destructive and can shorten our lives here on earth and destroys our witness with people but it does not separate us from God because we are "in Christ". It does however in our own minds affect how we view God but not how God views us.

The gospel of the grace of Christ is offensive to the religious mindset.

How we live here while on this earth affects our quality of life. Either live in grace or in the flesh.

I say that we teach the grace of Christ as it is this very thing that instructs how to live godly in this present world . Titus 2:11

Romans 8:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Isaiah 43:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“From eternity to eternity I am God.
No one can snatch anyone out of my hand.
No one can undo what I have done.”

Those that have been truly "born from above" cannot "un-born" themselves by an act of their own un-renewed minds and sick thinking and "un-do" what God in Christ has done. It's religious nonsense.

Isaiah 43:13 Young's Literal Translation
Even from the day I am He, And there is no deliverer from My hand, I work, and who doth turn it back?

New International Version
Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?"

English Standard Version
Also henceforth I am he; there is none who can deliver from my hand; I work, and who can turn it back?”

King James Bible
Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Also, from today on I am He alone, and none can deliver from My hand. I act, and who can reverse it?"

International Standard Version
"I am God; also from ancient days I am the one. And there is no one who can deliver out of my hand; when I act, who can reverse it?"

NET Bible
From this day forward I am he; no one can deliver from my power; I will act, and who can prevent it?"

GOD'S WORD® Translation
"From the [first] day I was the one [who did this]. No one can rescue people from my power. When I do something, who can undo it?"

King James 2000 Bible
Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall hinder it?
American King James Version
Yes, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
American Standard Version
Yea, since the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who can hinder it?
Douay-Rheims Bible
And from the beginning I am the same, and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall turn it away?

Darby Bible Translation
Yea, since the day was, I am HE, and there is none that delivereth out of my hand: I will work, and who shall hinder it?

English Revised Version
Yea, since the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

Webster's Bible Translation
Yes, before the day was, I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall hinder it?

World English Bible
Yes, since the day was I am he; and there is no one who can deliver out of my hand. I will work, and who can hinder it?"

The above can be a good thing or a bad. To those that are following God by faith following God's Word it is a good thing because no one can take that person from God. But to those that are sinning and are not following God then at the day of Judgement no one can deliver you out of the Hand of God

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Heb 10:31, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.

Eze 3:20, Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Those that are truly born again...

1John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin (wilful known); for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Isa 55:6-7,
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.


God bless all

 

[LoveGodForever]

Abiding in Christ is a "position" that we are in because we are in Christ and Christ is in us when we believe the message of Him. Eph 1:13.

1John 3:6,
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Joh 14:15, Jesus says "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Good night God bless all

 

[Grace777x70]

1John 3:6,
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Have you ever sinned? We all know you still sin - so now we could say that you are not born of God and God does not abide in you nor do you know God.

Obviously there is more to this then meets the natural eye and mind of man because we know that all Christians still sin from time to time ( The wilful sin thing is something that we 'add" to the text in order to try to "get around" it. )

This verse here in 1 John 3:9 says the same thing basically as 1 John 5:18...it says that the one born of God cannot sin.

I don't believe the new creation in Christ can sin as 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 speaks about.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


It is definitely in the present tense which means "doing a sin now". Present tense is always present tense.

Whether it is one sin or a thousand sins. I don't believe the new creation in Christ where Christ dwells can be contaminated or touched by sin. This is what spiritual circumcision is all about. Col. 2:11

The body of the flesh has been "cut away" from the inner man that is sealed by the Holy Spirit. There is still sin in the flesh ( Romans 7:17-22) which is why He has removed us from sin as far as the east is from the west.

What happens to our spirit where Christ is joined as one with us when we sin if the theory that sin can reach our new man in Christ - which has been created in righteousness and holiness.

Do we go in and out of righteousness because it is NOT our righteousness but Christ's alone? Of course not. it's a bunch of religious nonsense.

Let's say we sinned ( and whatsoever is not of faith is sin so this could mean any type of sin ) and then we die in a car crash just after we got angry at someone and called them a name ( which Jesus says is a sin in Matt 5:22 ) - we have lost righteousness and thus not able to go to heaven?

There are so many problems when you really stop to ponder the ramifications with the theory that we lose our righteousness because sin touches the inner man in Christ. We don't have our own righteousness which is derived from the law ( which is what we do or don't do).

We have become the very righteousness of God in Christ.

We can sin by yielding our members in our flesh if we yield to it and we are responsible with what we do in our bodies.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Jesus is keeping us from the evil one in our new creation in Christ.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Have you ever sinned? We all know you still sin - so now we could say that you are not born of God and God does not abide in you nor do you know God.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Gal 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.