Not By Works

[Sully]

For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.
Hebrews 1:8 NASB

Can you live in 1John1:9 and 1John 2:1 simultaneously?

 

[PHart]

Yep and a lot or people fail to acknowledge the context of said verses........while twisting them to apply unto something which they do not apply unto....!

Haven't you been sanctified by the blood of the New Covenant through faith in that blood? If so, Hebrews 10:26-31 applies to you. Every believer was sanctified (set apart unto God for a Holy purpose) when they first believed (Acts 26:18). (From there we also grow up into the sanctifying work of God in our personal growth in Christ).

If you, believer, who have been sanctified by the blood of Christ trample on the blood of Christ in a return to your old life of unbelief, you will not be chastised as a Son is lovingly chastised, you will be burned up with the rest of God's enemies at the Judgment as an unbeliever.

The words of Hebrews 10:26-31 are plain. Don't let a besetting sin tempt anyone to make the words mean something else, or be for someone else. They are for believers. God's grace can and will set you free from your besetting sin.....if you humble yourself and fall at his feet, and most importantly, if you keep believing in the blood of Christ.

 

[BillG]

My wife and I have been married 23 years today.

i bet it's been hard work for her

 

[PHart]

Can you live in 1John1:9 and 1John 2:1 simultaneously?

Why are you asking me?
I'm not advocating sinless perfection, if that's the point of your question.

I don't think anyone is advocating that here. It's just being heard that way. And I suspect it's being heard that way out of defensiveness because so many people are caught in the snare of pornography and substance addiction at this particular time in church history. God's grace is bigger than those things.

Just keep believing and trusting in the blood. Keep coming back to God for forgiveness when you fail. Unbelief is the enemy of being set free from addiction. Your addiction and unfruitfulness doesn't separate you from God. Your unbelief does, people. As long as your failure is not the result of you turning away from the Lord in unbelief your sin is not going to separate you from God. Only unbelief can do that. He's waiting with open arms for the weak and defeated sinner.

 

[Sully]

Why are you asking me?
I'm not advocating sinless perfection, if that's the point of your question.

I don't think anyone is advocating that here. It's just being heard that way. And I suspect it's being heard that way out of defensiveness because so many people are caught in the snare of pornography and substance addiction at this particular time in church history. God's grace is bigger than those things.

Just keep believing and trusting in the blood. Keep coming back to God for forgiveness when you fail. Unbelief is the enemy of being set free from addiction. Your addiction and unfruitfulness doesn't separate you from God. Your unbelief does, people. As long as your failure is not the result of you turning away from the Lord in unbelief your sin is not going to separate you from God. Only unbelief can do that. He's waiting with open arms for the weak and defeated sinner.

It wasn't an accusation just a question. Just as your post ref "you" in reply to me describing addiction I didn't really believe you're saying I have substance abuse issues.

 

[mailmandan]

Haven't you been sanctified by the blood of the New Covenant through faith in that blood? If so, Hebrews 10:26-31 applies to you. Every believer was sanctified (set apart unto God for a Holy purpose) when they first believed (Acts 26:18). (From there we also grow up into the sanctifying work of God in our personal growth in Christ).

If you, believer, who have been sanctified by the blood of Christ trample on the blood of Christ in a return to your old life of unbelief, you will not be chastised as a Son is lovingly chastised, you will be burned up with the rest of God's enemies at the Judgment as an unbeliever.

The words of Hebrews 10:26-31 are plain. Don't let a besetting sin tempt anyone to make the words mean something else, or be for someone else. They are for believers. God's grace can and will set you free from your besetting sin.....if you humble yourself and fall at his feet, and most importantly, if you keep believing in the blood of Christ.

Returned to their old life of unbelief, or chose to "draw back to perdition" instead of believing to the saving of the soul? (vs. 39).

In verse 29, the reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" seems to be referring to a Christian, but the word translated "sanctified" (which is a term often applied to Christians) and means "set apart," does not necessarily refer to salvation.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians and sinful things without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply means saved, then you would have to say that the Sabbath was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) and many other things that just do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the author sets up the contrast that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the context, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing Christian in the Christian community of Hebrew believers, yet renounced their identification, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" they had received, and by rejecting the work and the person of Christ himself, giving evidence that their identification with the Christian community was merely superficial and they were not a genuine believer.

*In Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

 

[UnderGrace]

Do you know that under the Levitical Law there was no sacrifice for someone purposefully and willfully transgressing the law of God?

Haven't you been sanctified by the blood of the New Covenant through faith in that blood? If so, Hebrews 10:26-31 applies to you. Every believer was sanctified (set apart unto God for a Holy purpose) when they first believed (Acts 26:18). (From there we also grow up into the sanctifying work of God in our personal growth in Christ).

If you, believer, who have been sanctified by the blood of Christ trample on the blood of Christ in a return to your old life of unbelief, you will not be chastised as a Son is lovingly chastised, you will be burned up with the rest of God's enemies at the Judgment as an unbeliever.

The words of Hebrews 10:26-31 are plain. Don't let a besetting sin tempt anyone to make the words mean something else, or be for someone else. They are for believers. God's grace can and will set you free from your besetting sin.....if you humble yourself and fall at his feet, and most importantly, if you keep believing in the blood of Christ.

 

[UnderGrace]

What is the old life of unbelief?

Haven't you been sanctified by the blood of the New Covenant through faith in that blood? If so, Hebrews 10:26-31 applies to you. Every believer was sanctified (set apart unto God for a Holy purpose) when they first believed (Acts 26:18). (From there we also grow up into the sanctifying work of God in our personal growth in Christ).

If you, believer, who have been sanctified by the blood of Christ trample on the blood of Christ in a return to your old life of unbelief, you will not be chastised as a Son is lovingly chastised, you will be burned up with the rest of God's enemies at the Judgment as an unbeliever.

The words of Hebrews 10:26-31 are plain. Don't let a besetting sin tempt anyone to make the words mean something else, or be for someone else. They are for believers. God's grace can and will set you free from your besetting sin.....if you humble yourself and fall at his feet, and most importantly, if you keep believing in the blood of Christ.

 

[UnderGrace]

Do you know that under the Levitical Law there was no sacrifice for someone purposefully and willfully transgressing the law of God?

Hi DCON,

I don't know if you meant to or not but you just twisted what I said to try and make it sound like I am saying something I never did and ignored the context of the conversation the message was sent to. Anyhow the context is continuing in wilful sin. Did Peter continue in wilful sin? What your suggesting that I said is just plain deceitful or you do not know God's Word which is it?

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.

1John 2:3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1John 2:4,
He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Ok time to sleep my end all

God bless you

 

[dcontroversal]

My wife and I have been married 23 years today.

i bet it's been hard work for her

AHAHAHAH I bet Bill and congrats migo.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Do you know that under the Levitical Law there was no sacrifice for someone purposefully and willfully transgressing the law of God?

AMEN....and again I must point out that CONTEXT is a word that alludes most who post..........especially within the ranks of those who push a working for, law keeping, sinless perfectionist dogma.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Haven't you been sanctified by the blood of the New Covenant through faith in that blood? If so, Hebrews 10:26-31 applies to you. Every believer was sanctified (set apart unto God for a Holy purpose) when they first believed (Acts 26:18). (From there we also grow up into the sanctifying work of God in our personal growth in Christ).

If you, believer, who have been sanctified by the blood of Christ trample on the blood of Christ in a return to your old life of unbelief, you will not be chastised as a Son is lovingly chastised, you will be burned up with the rest of God's enemies at the Judgment as an unbeliever.

The words of Hebrews 10:26-31 are plain. Don't let a besetting sin tempt anyone to make the words mean something else, or be for someone else. They are for believers. God's grace can and will set you free from your besetting sin.....if you humble yourself and fall at his feet, and most importantly, if you keep believing in the blood of Christ.

So does the following verses...pay particular attention to the verbiage "ONCE FOR ALL" and "PERFECTED FOR ALL TIME"

By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

 

[Sully]

So does the following verses...pay particular attention to the verbiage "ONCE FOR ALL" and "PERFECTED FOR ALL TIME"

By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

It's like striving to obtain what we already possess. It's impossible to do so.

 

[UnderGrace]

Exactly, I think this puts the Book of Hebrews in a nutshell!

It's like striving to obtain what we already possess. It's impossible to do so.

 

[UnderGrace]

Just two

Well outright maybe....but there seems to be a few other workers and lawyers who would have to deny this as well.

I know...and their very words condemn them....there are two posters on this thread that...

a. Deny the imputed righteousness of Christ to a believer
b. Say the cross is not enough
c. Say that the imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work

BOTH deny sin in a believer and both push their own working for I don't sin dogma.......MY bible teaches that a man who believes the above is not saved.....regardless of how much they claim to follow JESUS.....

 

[Sully]

Exactly, I think this puts the Book of Hebrews in a nutshell!

The lion, the scarecrow, and the tinman were on an endless search for what they already had. The "wizard" had to give them trinkets to convince them....sounds like religion.

 

[dcontroversal]

It's like striving to obtain what we already possess. It's impossible to do so.

Exactly.......in my view it dishonors Christ and devalues his blood and sacrifice.....just like those who deny the following or say the following...

1. The cross is not enough
2. The imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work
3. The bible does not teach the imputed righteousness of Christ

NO ONE led of the spirit of God would say such things.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Just two

Well outright maybe....but there seems to be a few other workers and lawyers who would have to deny this as well.

Obviously...but two for sure that outright say such things.........and some who don't say it outright, but rather imply it by their beliefs....

 

[Sully]

Exactly.......in my view it dishonors Christ and devalues his blood and sacrifice.....just like those who deny the following or say the following...

1. The cross is not enough
2. The imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work
3. The bible does not teach the imputed righteousness of Christ

NO ONE led of the spirit of God would say such things.......

The wages of sin requires death, any other attempt to pay the wage is an insult and there is a more accurate and extreme description than "insult". This how the enemy destroys, in a very subtle and unsuspecting way.

 

[Meggido]

A person cannot have a relationship with God without following the rules set forth by God.

Is there a marriage where there are no rules,where they can cheat on each other,spend the marriage funds on their wants neglecting the finances,although both contribute equally to the marriage,insult each other,and belittle each other,physically abuse each other,a spouse trying to poison the other spouse,and they find out about it,but they still love each other better than they ever did,and still have a wonderful,and exciting relationship,in their marriage.

Is there a business where there are no rules,where the people of the company can embezzle money freely,and encouraged by the owner,and out of an 8 hour day,spend 6 hours of that on break,and steal from the company,and the owner claps their hands,and says bravo,good job,enjoy the spoils of your stealing endeavor,and still have a job,and a wonderful,and exciting relationship with the owner,and still work there.

There is no relationship without rules,for not to abide by what God's character is about,and what His kingdom is about,is to not have a relationship with God.

God is the Creator of all things,including people,and loves them,and they are His property,but the Bible says if any person has the means to help the poor and needy,and does not do it,then the love of God does not dwell in them,they have erred from the faith,and their faith is dead.

The prosperity Gospel neglects the poor and needy,and shall God not have a rule help the poor and needy if He loves people,and the saints are supposed to represent Christ,for to not do it,they do not have a relationship with God,for they go against His love for people.

How can a person go against God's love,and say,I have a relationship with God.

God said give offense in nothing,so the ministry is not blamed,but holding unto sin,and hypocrisy,among many that claim to be with Christ,give offense to the ministry,for they say,forget Christianity,and its hypocrisy,and causes people to not come to the truth,or leave the Church.

Shall God not have a rule,abstain from sin,and stop the hypocrisy,and act Christlike,for they are causing people to not embrace Christianity,and leave Christianity,because of their hypocrisy,giving offense to the ministry that God is using to save people.

The Bible says love not the world,or the things in the world,for all that is in the world,is lust of the flesh,lust of the eyes,and arrogance,and if they do love the world,they are not of the Father.

But there are millions of people that claim Christ that love worldliness,and spending money on material things,fleshy pleasures,worldly entertainment,watching movies that are not godly,and enjoying the things of this world.

And shall God not have a rule to not enjoy the things of this world,and spending money on wants,when there is people in need,and He loves people,and it is also fleshy pleasures that war against the soul.They are supposed to abstain from things of the flesh,not enjoy them.

God hates sin,and His kingdom is love,so to hold unto sin,and not love people,which the Bible says do not love in word only,but love in deed,and in truth,is to not have a relationship with God.

In the world they have rules,and if you do not follow the rules,you are not going to get along with them,and be accepted and have a relationship in whatever,and wherever,they set the rules,whether marriage,business,military,stores,police force,obeying the laws of the nation,or whatever.

Shall friends have a relationship if they do not follow the rules,no stealing from me,no trying to kick my butt,no insulting me,no trying to have sex with my spouse,no getting drunk and kicking my dog,etc.

There is no relationship without rules,for people cannot act anyway they want,and expect to have a relationship.

God is love,and loves people,and hates sin,so how can we have a relationship with God without rules,for we cannot act anyway we want,and have a relationship with Him,and holding unto sin,and not helping the poor and needy if possible,and giving offense to the ministry by being hypocritical,not representing Christ,is to not have a relationship with God.

For in marriage there are rules to not offend each other.
In business there are rules to not offend the business.
In military rules to not offend the military.
In law enforcement rules to not offend the law.

With God rules to not offend Him,and His agenda on earth.People are trying to achieve a certain agenda on earth,and so is God,and to not represent God's ways on earth,by holding unto sin,and being hypocritical,not acting like Christ,is to go against His agenda.

How can a person have a relationship with anyone,or organization,if they are going contrary to the person,or the organizations,agenda.

Does the cabinet members of the president go against the agenda of the president.

But we have many people that claim Christ that go against the agenda that God is putting forth on earth,thy will be done on earth,as it is in heaven,and in heaven there is no sin,and hypocrisy,and so it should be the same way on earth,or we are not doing God's will.

Do the angels do what they want in heaven,and say to the Lord,I do not feel like worshipping you today Lord,and think I will venture off,and take me some time off,and try to find myself,and I do not feel like ministering to any saints today,or helping you out with your salvation plan on earth,when they are ministering spirits sent to all those who shall inherit eternal life.

They do not do that.They stick to the plan,they stick to the mission.Thy will be done on earth,as it is in heaven.

They are not up in heaven being rebellious,so the saints should not be that way on earth.

The Bible says awake to righteousness,and sin not,and Paul said not everyone has the knowledge of God,which he speaks to their shame.

God hates sin,and does not tolerate it,and views it as filthy.

And shall a man work in the sewer for 12 hours covered in filth,and smelling worse than a skunk,and come home to his wife,and not bathe,and do nothing to cleanse himself,and start hugging on his wife,and trying to kiss her,and be all sweet to her,rubbing on her,and will she not say,get away from me,and go clean up first,and present yourself in a decent manner,then I will accept you in a loving way.

And shall we try to have a relationship with God,and say,I love you,and I adore you,and we are holding unto sin,and being hypocritical,and not Christlike,because we want to hold unto some things of the flesh,and worldliness,when God hates sin,and it is filthy to Him.

That is why Christ came,and shed His blood to take away our sins,for then we can receive the Spirit,and if we hate sin,and do not want sin,then by the Spirit we can abstain from sin,and then we can have a relationship with God.

And this is not being strict for we can be forgiven of all our sins,even if we live in sin for 5 years we can be forgiven,we can be forgiven at any time,and we can be right with God again if we mean it to get rid of sins,but we cannot say that while we do sin,or if we hold unto sin for a while that it does not affect our relationship with God,because it does.

Jesus is not a President of a democracy or republic that can be challenged and kept in check by the other 2 branches of the system....Jesus is a King of a Kingdom......