The Rapture

J7 · Jul 23, 2017

[h=1]Ezekiel 5King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]5 And thou, son of man, take thee a sharp knife, take thee a barber's razor, and cause it to pass upon thine head and upon thy beard: then take thee balances to weigh, and divide the hair.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Thou shalt burn with fire a third part in the midst of the city, when the days of the siege are fulfilled: and thou shalt take a third part, and smite about it with a knife: and a third part thou shalt scatter in the wind; and I will draw out a sword after them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Thou shalt also take thereof a few in number, and bind them in thy skirts.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; for thereof shall a fire come forth into all the house of Israel.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 Thus saith the Lord God; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye multiplied more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my judgments, neither have done according to the judgments of the nations that are round about you;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, am against thee, and will execute judgments in the midst of thee in the sight of the nations.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all thine abominations.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers; and I will execute judgments in thee, and the whole remnant of thee will I scatter into all the winds.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 Wherefore, as I live, saith the Lord God; Surely, because thou hast defiled my sanctuary with all thy detestable things, and with all thine abominations, therefore will I also diminish thee; neither shall mine eye spare, neither will I have any pity.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scatter a third part into all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Thus shall mine anger be accomplished, and I will cause my fury to rest upon them, and I will be comforted: and they shall know that I the Lord have spoken it in my zeal, when I have accomplished my fury in them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 Moreover I will make thee waste, and a reproach among the nations that are round about thee, in the sight of all that pass by.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 So it shall be a reproach and a taunt, an instruction and an astonishment unto the nations that are round about thee, when I shall execute judgments in thee in anger and in fury and in furious rebukes. I the Lord have spoken it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 When I shall send upon them the evil arrows of famine, which shall be for their destruction, and which I will send to destroy you: and I will increase the famine upon you, and will break your staff of bread:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 So will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee: and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee; and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the Lord have spoken it.[/FONT]

Jackson123 · Jul 23, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." - Dan.9:27

The ruler, that antichrist (AC), will establish his covenant for seven years with Israel, allowing them to build their temple. For the first 3 1/2 years they will be performing sacrifices and offering according to the law given by Moses. In the middle of the seven years, he, the anitchrist, will cause the sacrifices and offerings to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple. It is also at this time when the AC will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God, as described by Paul 2 Thes.2:4.

That last 3 1/2 years will also be the time when the beast/antichrist is given authority over the great tribulation saints to make war and to conquer them.

That entire seven years is God's tribulation, not Satan's or man's. Certainly Satan, the beast and the false prophet will be performing their events, but that seven years is God's time of tribulation, his wrath. And that because that last seven years will be the fulfillment of the prophecy of seventy seven year periods that was pronounced on Israel and Jerusalem in Dan.9:24. God will be using Satan, the beast and the false prophet to carry out His will. After all, God is the One who wrote all of the activities of that last seven years in His word.

you said, during 7 years Satan make war with saint and win

that mean you believe during tribulation Satan persecute saint, that mean tribulation for saint from satan
that also mean saint still on earth, not rapture yet

Ahwatukee · Jul 23, 2017

"Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

The seven years are God's seven years that were pronounced against Israel and Jerusalem, not Satan's. God is just using him to fulfill it.

The 1260 days in Rev.11:3 is regarding the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period when the two witnesses of God will be prophesying in the streets of Jerusalem and will be bringing every kind of plague that they want, as many times as they want.

The second part of the seven year period, i.e. the last 3 1/2 years, is when the beast will be given authority to make war and conquer the great tribulation saints. That - Rev.13:7

That last 1260 days (3 1/2 years) will also be the time when the woman/Israel, will flee out into the desert where she will be cared for by God until the Lord returns to end the age.

The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will progress like a woman in birth pains, getting closer together and more intense.

Jackson123 · Jul 23, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

"[/COLOR][/FONT]Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finishtransgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

The seven years are God's seven years that were pronounced against Israel and Jerusalem, not Satan's. God is just using him to fulfill it.

The 1260 days in Rev.11:3 is regarding the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period when the two witnesses of God will be prophesying in the streets of Jerusalem and will be bringing every kind of plague that they want, as many times as they want.

The second part of the seven year period, i.e. the last 3 1/2 years, is when the beast will be given authority to make war and conquer the great tribulation saints. That - Rev.13:7

That last 1260 days (3 1/2 years) will also be the time when the woman/Israel, will flee out into the desert where she will be cared for by God until the Lord returns to end the age.

The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will progress like a woman in birth pains, getting closer together and more intense.[/SIZE]

you said God used satan to persecute saint? Why God want to persecute saint. Don't you said God wrath is not for saint?

Ahwatukee · Jul 23, 2017

"He was given power to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world

No, that does not mean that there is no rapture yet. The saints that the beast makes war against and conquers, will be the great tribulation saints, who are not the church, but are those who will become believers in Christ after the church has been gathered. The saints will be this group below:

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands." - Rev.7:9-17

"Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The above are not the church, but the great tribulation saints. These great tribulation saints are those who will come to Christ after the church has been gathered.

J7 · Jul 23, 2017

There is no 7 year Peace treaty Jackson. It is a fantasy of the corrupt so-called church.

It also has somewhat anti-semitic overtones.

Jackson123 · Jul 23, 2017

J7 said:

Look like Daniel and revelation mention 7 Years, but yes I am not sure whether 7 years peace treaty or tribulation

Ahwatukee · Jul 23, 2017

Jackson123 said:

Because they did not believe in Christ and were therefore not saved prior to the church being gathered. This is why Jesus warns us many time to "watch" and to be ready, looking for his coming. For those who continue to reject Christ and live according to the sinful nature, they will not go when the Lord appears to gather His church.

Anyone and everyone who is on the earth during the time of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be exposed to God's wrath, simply because they are on the earth.

Ahwatukee · Jul 23, 2017

Jackson123 said:

The antichrist will make a peace agreement with Israel for seven years, but will break it in the middle of that seven years. During that same seven years the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be in operation, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses bring upon the earth. It isn't until after the 7th bowl has been poured out that Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. If He didn't return at that time there would be no one left alive on the earth. - Matt.24:15-22

Jackson123 · Jul 23, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

"He was given power to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world

No, that does not mean that there is no rapture yet. The saints that the beast makes war against and conquers, will be the great tribulation saints, who are not the church, but are those who will become believers in Christ after the church has been gathered. The saints will be this group below:

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands." - Rev.7:9-17

"Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The above are not the church, but the great tribulation saints. These great tribulation saints are those who will come to Christ after the church has been gathered.

Yes revelation 7:9-17 did say this group is out of tribulation, but not say this group become believer after rapture.

Jackson123 · Jul 23, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Because they did not believe in Christ and were therefore not saved prior to the church being gathered. This is why Jesus warns us many time to "watch" and to be ready, looking for his coming. For those who continue to reject Christ and live according to the sinful nature, they will not go when the Lord appears to gather His church.

Anyone and everyone who is on the earth during the time of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be exposed to God's wrath, simply because they are on the earth.

do you have a verse that say if you believe after rapture, God will ask Satan to persecute you?

Jackson123 · Jul 23, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

it doesn't mention peace treaty in these verse, but it may interpreted as peace treaty.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak.19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

Ahwatukee · Jul 23, 2017

Jackson123 said:

They are people who become believers after the church has been gathered.

Please check the following for yourself:

From Revelation chapters 1 thru 3 only the word ekklesia translated church is used within those chapters. Within those same chapters you will not find the word Hagios translated as Saints.

Like wise from Revelation 4 onward, you will only see the word Hagios/Saints, but you will not see the word ekklesia/church anywhere during the narrative of God's wrath. You will only see the word "Saints." The reason for this is because in Rev.4:1 you see the following:

"After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”

Here the church is prophetically being represented by John. The voice that he hears that sounds like a trumpet, is the same as the "trumpet call of God" found in 1 Thes.4:16. The reason that the word church is not used after Rev.4:1 is because that is where the church is gathered and is no longer on the earth. This is why the word switches to "saints."

KJV1611 · Jul 23, 2017

J7 said:

Jeremiah 19
19 Thus saith the Lord, Go and get a potter's earthen bottle, and take of the ancients of the people, and of the ancients of the priests;
2 And go forth unto the valley of the son of Hinnom, which is by the entry of the east gate, and proclaim there the words that I shall tell thee,
3 And say, Hear ye the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.
4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;
5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.
7 And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
8 And I will make this city desolate, and an hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished and hiss because of all the plagues thereof.
9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend in the siege and straitness, wherewith their enemies, and they that seek their lives, shall straiten them.
10 Then shalt thou break the bottle in the sight of the men that go with thee,
11 And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel, that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.
12 Thus will I do unto this place, saith the Lord, and to the inhabitants thereof, and even make this city as Tophet:
13 And the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses of the kings of Judah, shall be defiled as the place of Tophet, because of all the houses upon whose roofs they have burned incense unto all the host of heaven, and have poured out drink offerings unto other gods.
14 Then came Jeremiah from Tophet, whither the Lord had sent him to prophesy; and he stood in the court of the Lord's house; and said to all the people,
15 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.

11 And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel, that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.

Verse 11 says God will break this people and the city so that it cannot be made whole again.... AD 70 earthly Jerusalem was destroyed and will never be made whole again.

But that's also what the book of Joel and the rest of the prophets is about.

KJV1611 · Jul 23, 2017

Jackson123 said:

Revelation 12:4 KJV
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

You tell me if Satan didn't draw the third part of the Jews fell from heaven.... they were ready to devour Jesus at his birth. That already happened.

Ahwatukee · Jul 23, 2017

Currently and since the destruction of the temple, Israel has not been able to rebuild her temple on the temple mount. Currently Islam controls the temple mount and that because during the 6 day war, Moshe Dayan relinquished control to islam. This was God's doing in order to keep Israel from building her temple before the appointed time.

When that antichrist comes, his seven year agreement will be to allow Israel to finally build her long-awaited temple. So, whatever you want to call their ability to do that, call it an agreement, a peace treaty or whatever you would like to call it. The bottom line is that, the seven year agreement will all allow Israel to build what they have not been able to for almost 2000 years. I would call that a peace treaty.

J7 · Jul 23, 2017

The Futurists do not follow the Bible KJV, they only acknowledge a tiny bit of it.

The -le

But we know that before we can grow up, we need also a bib

KJV1611 · Jul 23, 2017

Jackson123 said:

It's neither, it's Jesus confirming the covenant with Abraham.

KJV1611 · Jul 23, 2017

Zephaniah 1:7 KJV
Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord God : for the day of the Lord is at hand: for the Lord hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.

I'm still waiting for the futurists to tell me what sacrifice the Lord is going to make when the day of the Lord comes in the last 7 years (lol, this is pathetic theology).

So what is the sacrifice futurist and who are the bidden guests and what are they bidden to come to?

KJV1611 · Jul 23, 2017

KJV1611 said:

I will answer this for you futurists... The sacrifice was Christ and the guests were the Gentiles... the day of the Lord happened when God sacrificed Jesus on the cross and gave the kingdom to the Gentiles.

The Rapture

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