The Rapture

[KJV1611]

Revelation 6:8 KJV
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Notice the verse doesn't say "over a fourth of the earth, it says "the fourth part. What part of the earth is the 4th part of the earth?

 

[J7]

Joel 2:24-27 KJV
And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil.

[25] And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.

[26] And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the Lord your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.

[27] And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

First coming or milenneum?

I think Joel was talking about the Assyrians. The Lion was an Assyrian motif.

28 [FONT=&quot]And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]That was fulfilled at Pentecost, and it says 'afterward', so everything before that would be before Christ's first coming.
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[J7]

Luke 3:16-17 KJV
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

[17] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

His fan is IN his hand right then to seperate the wheat from the chaff.... is this 1st coming or rapture?

I think first coming.

10 [FONT=&quot]And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.[/FONT]

 

[J7]

Revelation 6:8 KJV
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Notice the verse doesn't say "over a fourth of the earth, it says "the fourth part. What part of the earth is the 4th part of the earth?

I don't know. what is it?

 

[RickyZ]

I am sorry RZ, I have to vehemently disagree:

Nahum 1:3 The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked:

Nehemiah 9:17 but thou art a God ready to pardon, gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and forsookest them not.

Psalm 103:8
The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.

Psalm 145:8
The Lord is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.

Joel 2:13
And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the Lord your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.

Jonah 4:2
And he prayed unto the Lord, and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

And, you know I could put up just as many verses that describe God in His anger, right?

Slow to anger - it doesn't mean He never gets there.

 

[heartofdavid]

In Colossians 1:15 it is said that our Lord Jesus was the "first born of every creature",,,So from the beginning the saviour who would need be come into this was the first thought of God that is,Adam and then you and me were not created and then when we goofed up there was an need to then create someone to come and save us but instead long before me and you and Adam was created and sinned God loved us and created beforehand the saviour Jesus Christ our Lord.

lol,Just something to ponder about who came first "the sinner or the saviour?",,,

Jesus is God.

Jesus is not a creation of God.

He is creator.

 

[tanakh]

Revelation 6:8 KJV
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Notice the verse doesn't say "over a fourth of the earth, it says "the fourth part. What part of the earth is the 4th part of the earth?

Um It doesn't say but you can bet anyone in the remaining three parts will be relieved it wasn't them!

 

[heartofdavid]

have you read 2 thesalonians 2 brother.

read and tell me sentence by sentence what It mean

It is saying that the second coming will not happen untill after the AC is revealed.

 

[J7]

That is what intemperate means RZ, someone who flies off the handle, which is how you view God. That is what we are discussing. Not whether God gets angry.

Do you think God is irrational or something? He gets angry when people violate his ways, so anger and judgement go hand in hand.

And, you know I could put up just as many verses that describe God in His anger, right?

Slow to anger - it doesn't mean He never gets there.

 

[Magenta]

That is what intemperate means RZ, someone who flies off the handle, which is how you view God. That is what we are discussing. Not whether God gets angry.

Do you think God is irrational or something? He gets angry when people violate his ways, so anger and judgement go hand in hand.

Ricky explicitly stated that God is slow to anger so your accusation of saying he believes God flies off the handle is completely irrational and unwarranted.

 

[Jackson123]

It is saying that the second coming will not happen untill after the AC is revealed.

not only second coming brother ​but also our being gathered to him/rapture


2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him,we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

 

[Ahwatukee]

asserting that the day of the Lord has already come

The wrath part of the day of the Lord will not happen until the rebellion occurs and that man of lawlessness is revealed.

* The appearing of our Lord and our being gathered to Him

* The rebellion occurs

* The man of lawlessness is reveal, which begins the seven years and God's wrath.

 

[Jackson123]

The wrath part of the day of the Lord will not happen until the rebellion occurs and that man of lawlessness is revealed.

* The appearing of our Lord and our being gathered to Him

* The rebellion occurs

* The man of lawlessness is reveal, which begins the seven years and God's wrath.

the verse start with: concerning the coming of our Lord...

/ concerning second coming and rapture

 

[J7]

Thank you Mother Hen for your timely interference, I mean, insight.

Ricky explicitly stated that God is slow to anger so your accusation of saying he believes God flies off the handle is completely irrational and unwarranted.

 

[Ahwatukee]

the verse start with: concerning the coming of our Lord...

/ concerning second coming and rapture

First Paul says:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him"

then he says:
"asserting that the day of the Lord has already come"

 

[mj007]

People compare God to themselves so much don't they lol Like God has a physical brain, spends time thinking about things, with chemical reactions, hormones, mood changes, neurons.

God is not human, therefore the 'anger' of God, is more like the 'anger' of gale force wind tearing up trees - it just is. God just is, where as humans may or may not be, which is the most major flaw of human physical existence, we live in a duality. God is singularity. Jesus surrendered his human flesh to being singularity, therefore in the image of God. He also said you can too, but dualistic views say no.

 

[Jackson123]

First Paul says:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him"

then he says:
"asserting that the day of the Lord has already come"

Do not wory concerning food, money and tranportation, company Will taking care all your need

what is the word
need refer to?

need in this sentence refer to food, money and transportation

narmaly people not write :

Do not wory concerning food, money and tranprtation, company Will provide food, money and transportation

Food money and tranportation already mention than you do not mention It anymore

All your need replace food money and transportation, to make It short.
concerning second coming and rapture do not unsettle

the day of the Lord.....

the day of the Lord refer to second coming and rapture, to make It short.

Paul ask them not to unsettle. Do you think paul stop there and change topic? No

he continue to give a reason

that day/ the day of the Lord, not going to happen before trib

 

[VCO]

In Colossians 1:15 it is said that our Lord Jesus was the "first born of every creature",,,So from the beginning the saviour who would need be come into this was the first thought of God that is,Adam and then you and me were not created and then when we goofed up there was an need to then create someone to come and save us but instead long before me and you and Adam was created and sinned God loved us and created beforehand the saviour Jesus Christ our Lord.

lol,Just something to ponder about who came first "the sinner or the saviour?",,,

Colossians 1:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.


All firstborn means is "the TITLE designating the one who has the right to inherit all that the Father has", and that includes HIS DEITY.


John 16:15 (NRSV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.


That birthright TITLE can be given to anyone the Father chooses to give it to, including a servant, or a CO-EQUAL. IT DID NOT IN THIS CASE ESPECIALLY, Designate Offspring.

 

[VCO]

Pre tribbers use the types in the Bible to support their belief in a Pre Trib Rapture and yet maintain that the Jews and so called Tribulation Saints remain on earth during the tribulation.

Whether they are aware of this or not the truth is that the Pre Trib rapture is a device to maintain the false premise that there are two different paths to salvation for Jews and Gentiles as according to Darby who created the whole Dispensational baggage. His version goes that the Jews rejected Jesus offer to set up his kingdom so God created the Church and let it run for two thousand plus years until such time as he would turn his attention back to them again. To do this he removes the Church from the scene at the tribulation which in part is to force the Jews to return to him. Having two separate plans of salvation goes against everything Paul and others said about salvation through Christ. It also results in very few Christians sharing the Gospel with Jews and so condemning many of them to a Godless eternity.

AMAZING, you really KNOW almost nothing truthful about what we genuinely believe.


WE TEACH only ONE WAY TO BE SAVED. Mal. 3:6 says the LORD DOES NOT CHANGE. Therefore if we can find how GOD saved one man, WE WILL KNOW HOW HE SAVES ALL MEN.


Romans 4:3 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”


O.T. Saints BELIEVE GOD would send a Messiah.

N.T. Saints BELIEVE GOD did send the Messiah.


IT IS THE SAME FAITH, the FAITH OF ABRAHAM, and everyone who is SAVED was saved the exact same way.

 

[KJV1611]

I think Joel was talking about the Assyrians. The Lion was an Assyrian motif.

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

That was fulfilled at Pentecost, and it says 'afterward', so everything before that would be before Christ's first coming.

I agree, but for our futurist friends, I want them to notice that verse 27 says I am in the midst of Israel and my people shall never be ashamed. I would assume this makes Joel 2 future to them lol.


[27] And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Look at the generation

Joel 1:3-4 KJV
Tell ye your (gen 1) children of it (gen 2) , and let your children tell their children (gen 3), and their children another generation (gen 4).

[4] That which the palmerworm (gen 1) hath left hath the locust eaten (gen 2); and that which the locust hath left hath the (gen 3) cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the (gen 4) caterpiller eaten.

Notice that regeneration took place on the FOURTH generation. Coincidence or is the bible teaching on the meaning of "the fourth part" of the earth?