The Rapture

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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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You've probably heard of it, it is a place under us burning right now called hell.
There is no doubt 70 AD Jerusalem's destruction was devastating to the Jews as well, I am not denying that.
Are you discussing final judgment wrath or the wrath of the Lamb which came in 70 AD? Do you realize that the unpardonable sin was only possible for those who actually knew Jesus in His day?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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WHO is antichrist that mention by John

how about a man of sin in thesalonians 2

You will get some VERY STRANGE answers from that guy.

Most of the Churches believe it is a Dictator (possessed by Satan himself) who rules over a Ten Nation Confederacy that is pretty much a Revival of the Original Roman Empire. Most of us think that right now the European Union, is starting to look like that multi-nation Confederacy. A couple days ago, I posted a video that shows a short speech in the E.U. meeting where the British Representative was warning them about a Political Movement within the E.U. attempting to take over, which HE SAID WOULD DRIVE SEVERAL COUNTRIES INTO LEAVING THE E.U. What do you bet that when the dust settles, there are only TEN NATIONS LEFT?


SEE THE VIDEO ON MY POST #4396
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Ya but when It happen, during the trib or after that is I do not know for sure
Jackson123, the tribulation is God's wrath.

Currently those in Christ world-wide, from the beginning of the church until now, have been suffering trials and tribulation, which are not the wrath of God, but come at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness. Once the church has been gathered, then that time of tribulation will begin, which is when God will begin to pour out His wrath, His tribulation.

You are speaking of the tribulation as though it were something separate from God's wrath, when they are the same thing. The time of tribulation will take place during that entire last seven years via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

God's wrath is the tribulation.
 
May 11, 2014
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A couple days ago, I posted a video that shows a short speech in the E.U. meeting where the British Representative was warning them about a Political Movement within the E.U. attempting to take over, which HE SAID WOULD DRIVE SEVERAL COUNTRIES INTO LEAVING THE E.U. What do you bet that when the dust settles, there are only TEN NATIONS LEFT?
I can confirm I live in the EU. It is falling apart.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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You will get some VERY STRANGE answers from that guy.

Most of the Churches believe it is a Dictator (possessed by Satan himself) who rules over a Ten Nation Confederacy that is pretty much a Revival of the Original Roman Empire. Most of us think that right now the European Union, is starting to look like that multi-nation Confederacy. A couple days ago, I posted a video that shows a short speech in the E.U. meeting where the British Representative was warning them about a Political Movement within the E.U. attempting to take over, which HE SAID WOULD DRIVE SEVERAL COUNTRIES INTO LEAVING THE E.U. What do you bet that when the dust settles, there are only TEN NATIONS LEFT?


SEE THE VIDEO ON MY POST #4396
thanks bro, let see what happen
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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The inscription on the Arch of Titus in Rome still visible today reads:

SENATVS
POPVLVSQVE·ROMANVS
DIVO·TITO·DIVI·VESPASIANI·F(ILIO)
VESPASIANO·AVGVSTO


Which means:

"The Roman Senate and People (dedicate this) to the divine Titus Vespasianus Augustus, son of the divine Vespasian."

Think about what this means for a minute and let it sink in. To the Romans, Titus was a God.

The Arch provides one of the few contemporary depictions of Temple period artifacts.[SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP] The seven-branched menorah and trumpets are clearly depicted on the arch. It became a symbol of the Jewish diaspora. Roman Jews refused to walk under it. The menorah depicted on the Arch served as the model for the menorah used on the emblem of the state of Israel. However, when David Ben Gurion declared independence for the State of Israel, the chief rabbi gathered the entire Roman Jewish community by the arch and in solemn procession, walked the opposite way under the arch to symbolize the return to Jerusalem and Israel.

The menorah and trumpets stolen by the Romans after the siege of 70 AD were taken to Rome and as mentioned are engraved on the Arch of Titus next to the Forum. The "menorah (candlestick) and trumpets" were present in 70 AD. Did anyone else make a connection to Revelation here?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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You will get some VERY STRANGE answers from that guy.

Most of the Churches believe it is a Dictator (possessed by Satan himself) who rules over a Ten Nation Confederacy that is pretty much a Revival of the Original Roman Empire. Most of us think that right now the European Union, is starting to look like that multi-nation Confederacy. A couple days ago, I posted a video that shows a short speech in the E.U. meeting where the British Representative was warning them about a Political Movement within the E.U. attempting to take over, which HE SAID WOULD DRIVE SEVERAL COUNTRIES INTO LEAVING THE E.U. What do you bet that when the dust settles, there are only TEN NATIONS LEFT?


SEE THE VIDEO ON MY POST #4396
Wow, what a strange idea this is. Tell me brother, what does your antichrist do that is worse than what Titus did? Does he deceive Israel into getting wiped out? Seems like we've seen that play before.

Vespasian (Satan like who did miracles) and Son of Perdition, Titus.
 
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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Jackson123, the tribulation is God's wrath.

Currently those in Christ world-wide, from the beginning of the church until now, have been suffering trials and tribulation, which are not the wrath of God, but come at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness. Once the church has been gathered, then that time of tribulation will begin, which is when God will begin to pour out His wrath, His tribulation.

You are speaking of the tribulation as though it were something separate from God's wrath, when they are the same thing. The time of tribulation will take place during that entire last seven years via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

God's wrath is the tribulation.
Hi ahwatukee,

in revelation tell that the beast rule the world and kill saint, It is mean not only wrath of God,
also persecution happen

the Bible also Said, during wrath of God, all the kings are Tremble hide in the cave, in this situasion
i believe No persecution anymore

I am not expert in this subject, but seem to me persecution keep going during the beast era than God wrath.
with that kind of calamity, to kill the population of the world do not need 7 years. If 1/3 of the star fall, great earthquaqe,
I believe in a week all done.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Numbers 10: [SUP]9 [/SUP]“When you go to war in your land against the enemy who oppresses you, then you shall sound an alarm with the trumpets, and you will be remembered before the Lord your God, and you will be saved from your enemies.

They weren't saved on that day, were they? In fact, each trumpet blast brought a worse judgment upon them, not their enemies.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Wow, what a strange idea this is. Tell me brother, what does your antichrist do that is worse than what Titus did? Does he deceive Israel into getting wiped out? Seems like we've seen that play before.

Vespasian (Satan like who did miracles) and Son of Perdition, Titus.
Is that mean you believe Titus is the antichrist?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Is that mean you believe Titus is the antichrist?
Titus was the Man of Sin. Titus, as far as I know, never claimed to be Christ. However, I will say, many Romans of that day believed Titus was the Messiah the Jews were waiting for to save them from the tyrants inside.

To be clear, there has been no historical figure since Paul discussed the Man of Sin that better fits everything Paul said about him than Titus. Titus checks all the boxes, every last one of them and since he does, why are some still waiting for someone else to come along and fulfill everything that Titus already did? It baffles me. The only reasons I can think of is stubbornness and the unwillingness to admit error.
 
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Vespasian (Satan like who did miracles) and Son of Perdition, Titus.
Like what? I think you are too eager to have things fulfilled just to be done with it. This can be dangerous because you do not need to "WATCH" like our Lord Jesus Christ said, since everything has already come to pass in your view.

The man of sin will be destroyed at the Second Coming:

2 Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

Which has not happened yet because we should be ruling with Christ right now had it occured.

Just think about it: Why would God give us a Bible, for generations and generations if everything was already fulfilled including the resurrection. It does not make sense. There would be no reason to watch or study anything.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Titus was the Man of Sin. Titus, as far as I know, never claimed to be Christ. However, I will say, many Romans of that day believed Titus was the Messiah the Jews were waiting for to save them from the tyrants inside.

To be clear, there has been no historical figure since Paul discussed the Man of Sin that better fits everything Paul said about him than Titus. Titus checks all the boxes, every last one of them and since he does, why are some still waiting for someone else to come along and fulfill everything that Titus already did? It baffles me. The only reasons I can think of is stubbornness and the unwillingness to admit error.
If Titus is a man of sin, than after Titus, must be rapture, and second coming

and Titus must sets himself in the temple and proclaim AS a God and is worshiped AS a God by all nations

2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
 
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If Titus is a man of sin, than after Titus, must be rapture, and second coming
This is what I and others have been trying to tell PlainWord as well, but for some reason he cannot see it, because he thinks second coming and resurrection already happened.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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If Titus is a man of sin, than after Titus, must be rapture, and second coming

and Titus must sets himself in the temple and proclaim AS a God and is worshiped AS a God by all nations

2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

The rebellion was the Jewish rebellion against the Romans. Notice Titus must be revealed prior to the Day of the Lord. The problem you are having (I think) is "the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our (their) gathering to Him." So, did this happen after Passover of 70 AD?

First off the word, "coming" would be better translated as "presence." The word Paul uses is parousia 3952 which is the same word the disciples used in Mat 24 when they inquired as to when His presence would return. The glorified Christ in Heaven is a bright light that cannot be looked upon by mortals, just as was the case with His Father. However, the presence of God appearing to man was usually in the form of a dark cloud under His feet. At night it was usually a pillar of fire.

Since the Garden, God never appeared directly and visibly again. The same now must be assumed for Christ appearing from heaven on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Pay close attention to this. It is an appearance in the sky above. The same description found in Mt 24 is found in Mt 26 when He prophesies to the religious leaders.
[SUP] 64 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Jesus is telling those about to put Him to death that they will see Him again, in heaven with Power and coming for vengeance in the skies above.

Secondly, the gathering to Him, what does that mean? Here again, another incomplete translation. The actual Greek text says, "and of us gathering together to Him." The word here is episunagoge, 1997 which means a complete collection, specifically a Christian meeting (for worship) - assembling (gathering) together. The only place in the NT where this exact word is used is here in 2 Thes 2. However, the root word gather, episunago, 1996 is also used by Christ in Mt 24:31 and Mk 13:27. These are the only two places in the NT that use this word!! Other examples of "gather" such as the 'gathering of tares' or 'gather out of his kingdom' use sullego 4816, to collect - gather (together up). So we are talking about a Christian gathering.

What is it when two or more get together? For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

So, the gathering of the elect is NOT a collection of the elect taken forcefully so don't confuse this with the rapture (harpazo of 1 Thes 4). Instead it is a Christian assembly of Saints with the angels which occurs during or in close proximity to the parousia (presence return) of Christ as powerful God. We have a collection of saints on Mount Zion who heard a divine voice and were told to leave Jerusalem. The voice of an angel said, "Let us remove hence." This is also in the historic record.

The parousia of Christ during the Jewish Roman War was recorded by Josephus as related to him by many eye witnesses. The gathering of the Jerusalem church as told in Rev 14 and 2 Thes 2, is also recorded by Josephus and many of the early church fathers.

I already went into great detail explaining how Titus fits.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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This is what I and others have been trying to tell PlainWord as well, but for some reason he cannot see it, because he thinks second coming and resurrection already happened.
First study history. When you've put the time in that I have, then you can speak down to me.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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The rebellion was the Jewish rebellion against the Romans. Notice Titus must be revealed prior to the Day of the Lord. The problem you are having (I think) is "the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our (their) gathering to Him." So, did this happen after Passover of 70 AD?

First off the word, "coming" would be better translated as "presence." The word Paul uses is parousia 3952 which is the same word the disciples used in Mat 24 when they inquired as to when His presence would return. The glorified Christ in Heaven is a bright light that cannot be looked upon by mortals, just as was the case with His Father. However, the presence of God appearing to man was usually in the form of a dark cloud under His feet. At night it was usually a pillar of fire.

Since the Garden, God never appeared directly and visibly again. The same now must be assumed for Christ appearing from heaven on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Pay close attention to this. It is an appearance in the sky above. The same description found in Mt 24 is found in Mt 26 when He prophesies to the religious leaders.
[SUP] 64 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Jesus is telling those about to put Him to death that they will see Him again, in heaven with Power and coming for vengeance in the skies above.

Secondly, the gathering to Him, what does that mean? Here again, another incomplete translation. The actual Greek text says, "and of us gathering together to Him." The word here is episunagoge, 1997 which means a complete collection, specifically a Christian meeting (for worship) - assembling (gathering) together. The only place in the NT where this exact word is used is here in 2 Thes 2. However, the root word gather, episunago, 1996 is also used by Christ in Mt 24:31 and Mk 13:27. These are the only two places in the NT that use this word!! Other examples of "gather" such as the 'gathering of tares' or 'gather out of his kingdom' use sullego 4816, to collect - gather (together up). So we are talking about a Christian gathering.

What is it when two or more get together? For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

So, the gathering of the elect is NOT a collection of the elect taken forcefully so don't confuse this with the rapture (harpazo of 1 Thes 4). Instead it is a Christian assembly of Saints with the angels which occurs during or in close proximity to the parousia (presence return) of Christ as powerful God. We have a collection of saints on Mount Zion who heard a divine voice and were told to leave Jerusalem. The voice of an angel said, "Let us remove hence." This is also in the historic record.

The parousia of Christ during the Jewish Roman War was recorded by Josephus as related to him by many eye witnesses. The gathering of the Jerusalem church as told in Rev 14 and 2 Thes 2, is also recorded by Josephus and many of the early church fathers.

I already went into great detail explaining how Titus fits.
than why Titus not sets in the temple, declare himself AS a God and whorshiped AS a God
 
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Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Titus is not the man of sin,for God is allowing the man of sin to deceive all people who do not love God,so they will follow the beast kingdom,and God can put an end to this sin business on earth.

When the man of sin deceives the world who do not love God,He will then put an end to all evil on earth,but we see evil still going on.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The ten horns is the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,and the man of sin,the beast,shall come from them,and the 4th beast shall devour the while earth,tread it down,and break it in pieces,and the beast has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues,and all who dwell on earth that does not love Jesus will worship the beast.

The beast kingdom is the whole earth together.

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

When the transgressors are come to the full then the man of sin will appear to deceive the world.The transgressors were not come to the full back in the first century,and people are more motivated by arrogance,and self exaltation,than in the first century,marriages ending up in divorce,children disobedient to parents,and general worldliness,and greed,and fleshy pleasures,where one billion dollars is not enough for a person.

Pro 30:11 There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
Pro 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
Pro 30:13 There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
Pro 30:14 There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

God told us of the last generation before Jesus comes back.Children not honoring their parents,being pure in their own eyes,but not right with God,highly selfish,highly arrogant,agressive towards each other,and so obsessed with money that they will not care about the poor and needy,which we observe today.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

God warns us of the new age movement that is going on today,interpretating the Bible according to spiritual evolution,and the exaltation of people through nature,and will unify the religions,and all religions will be interpreted according to the new age movement.

During the operation of the unified religious system,and the ten horn kingdom,it will be the time they will not endure the truth of the Bible,but according to their own lusts,giving heed to fables,spiritual evolution through nature,and will be a hate crime to try to convert someone to their religion,punishable in the international criminal court system,for all are valid with a core truth.

A terrible war will happen at that time,the 6th trumpet,because of the unified religious system,for they rebel against the operation of it,and will not accept their interpretation of their religion in the religious system,and will not like that they cannot preach their religion,which appears as of it would be the religion of Islam.

After the 6th trumpet God says the world will not repent of their evil ways,and will not turn to Him to have peace on earth,so God allows the man of sin to deceive all people that do not love Him.

The falling away first is complete.

The ten horns failed at obtaining peace,and the ten horns hand their power over to the beast,and He gains control of the world,and convinces the world that he harnessed the power of nature,and obtained power,and the false prophet will do great wonders to show the world that the beast did receive power through nature,and shared this power with the false prophet,and the beast will share this power with all who worship him.

When they take the mark of the beast then repentance,and salvation,is no longer available to the world,and the saints can be gathered unto Christ,but God allows the beast to make war against the saints,and prevail against them,and they shall be given in to his hands for three and one half years.

The man of sin establishes peace in the Middle East,which allows for all Jews to go back to Israel,and the Gentiles will come together and say,Peace and safety,and the Jews and the Gentiles will be separated,and will begin the time that will start the separation of those that love God,from those that do not love God.

The Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians,and the Jews will build their temple with no hassle from the Palestinians.

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

The elect will not be deceived when they say Peace and safety for they will know it is not the operation of God,and the elect are still on earth when the 7 years period starts.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Jesus will deliver the elect from the temptation that shall come upon all the earth,for when they say Peace and safety,people then have a choice whether to follow them or not.

This temptation is going to come upon all the earth,and will result in those that follow the world to be put down,and the sin business on earth to cease.

This has not happened yet,for sin is going on.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

The 7 heads 1.Egypt 2.Assyria 3.Babylon 4.Medo-Persia 5.Greece 6.The Roman Empire 7.The world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,the physical dominion of the beast.

The crowns are on the heads,Satan in the spiritual realm deceiving people by way of the 7 kingdoms.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The crowns are on the horns,Satan in the physical realm deceiving the world by the man of sin,who is mighty but not by his own power,but gets his power from Satan.

The ten horn kingdom,the physical dominion of the beast kingdom,with the ways of a lion-Babylon,which represents human religion,with the ways of a bear-Medo-Persia,which represents physical cruelty,and the ways of a leopard-Greece,which represents human wisdom(Daniel 7),for this is the kingdom of man in its entirety,that acknowledges no God,but honors the God of forces,the power of nature as their higher power,and in to spiritual evolution through nature.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Five have fallen 1.Egypt 2.Assyria 3.Babylon 4.Medo-Persia 5.Greece.One is in operation at the time John wrote Revelation 6.The Roman Empire.And one is to come that will continue for a short space,only three and one half years,the first half of the 7 years period,the ten horn kingdom,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,and the 8th king is the man of sin,who is of the 7 kings,for the devil influenced those kingdoms,and the ten horn kingdom hand their power over to the 8th king,and he gets control of the world.

The man of sin does not claim to be God,until the operation of the ten horn kingdom,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,which could of not happened in the first century,for the world did not even know about each other to the extent they do today,because of advanced technology,and they can travel to each other by advanced travel.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
Dan 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Fuhgeddaboudit Daniel,but go your way,for you cannot understand,but they will understand in the end time,because of advanced travel,and advanced technology,which they did not have in the first century.

Nah 2:3 The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men are in scarlet: the chariots shall be with flaming torches in the day of his preparation, and the fir trees shall be terribly shaken.
Nah 2:4 The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings.

This is obviously talking about automobiles,which shall be in the day of the Lord's preparation.Did not know what to call them,but used chariots for it is a form of transportation.

Isa 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

As birds flying,Israeli fighter pilots paved the way to win the 6 day war,and take control of Jerusalem.

The man of sin has not appeared yet,and could of not happened in the first century,and Titus is not the man od sin,or any other person in the first century.

The beast kingdom in Revelation is in the future,and is the time for God to end this sin business on earth,and bring Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah,for all the Jews are back on their land,and God said He will leave none of them left in the nations.

Israel is blinded in part,they accept the Old Testament,but not the New,for the majority,but the nation of Israel must come to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah,until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,when the world takes the mark of the beast,for then salvation is no longer available to them,and all Israel shall be saved,from physical attack after the 7 years perod,and physical Israel shall become spiritual Israel.

God turns the nation of Israel to the truth by 2 witnesses at the last three and one half years,for the fulness of the Gentiles have come in,and that is why during the first three and one half years they will have their temple,because Israel is still blinded in part at that time acknowedging the Old Testament,but not the New,but will be turned to the truth at the last three and one half years of the 7 years period.

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

If a person is not going to heed what the Bible says,they will not believe even if one rose from the dead and told them,which in Matthew 24,Jesus said the saints will be hated of all nations,not a few,but all nations,and the Gospel will be preached in to all the world,not 12.6 percent of the world,but 100 percent of the world,as a witness unto all nations,not a few,but all nations,and the saints shall observe,and know,and hear,of things that occur around the world,which can only be known by advanced travel,and technology.

All prophesy was not fulfilled in the first century,and it is impossible that it could be.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I never saw a Safeway until I came to the west coast forty years ago. Later when I was back visiting Toronto at one point, they had Sobeys there, which I had also never seen before. Now Sobeys has taken over Safeway here. That hoagie sandwich sells for ten dollars... Sobeys Inc. is the second largest food retailer in Canada, with over 260 supermarkets operating in Canada and around 1500 under a variety of banners. At least it is Canadian owned. Safeway was not, and I rarely shopped there because of it. I did buy a hoagie a few times, though, when I wanted to eat inexpensively. It would last three to four days at least, for a lunch or dinner meal each day.

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Between 1987 and 2014, we lived in three different small towns in Northern California. I did not choose to leave California, they FORCED ME OUT, after I retired. The cost of living there kept going up and up, while my pension stayed pretty much stayed the same. Finally the cost of living was greater than our pensions by $400 per month, so we moved to a small town in north central Nevada. Two years later my wife passed and Nevada ceased to feel like home. So I moved back to Nebraska near where I was born and raised. Not my favorite place to live but at least it is affordable. Crescent City, California was my favorite place in the States that I ever lived. BUT now it is TOO expensive to live there. Looking forward to living in heaven.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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Are you discussing final judgment wrath or the wrath of the Lamb which came in 70 AD? Do you realize that the unpardonable sin was only possible for those who actually knew Jesus in His day?
No the Wrath of the Lamb that will come during the last seven years that man will be ruling nations on this earth.