Not By Works

Meggido · Jul 19, 2017

Gabriel2020 said:

The gift is gift of the discerning/distinguishing of spirits, not the gift of discernment.....

1 Cor 12.10-

[SUP]10 [/SUP]and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

You have no gift, you are engaged in what is called bias and judgement....anyone who cannot even properly tell us what the gift is called does not have the gift they describe....

A wise old pastor mentor taught me decades ago...if anyone comes up to you in person or not and says...hey preacher, I ask God for one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and he gave it to me. that gift was the gift of discernment....they do not ahve it and never had it.....

Now, do you want to continue splashing water on my arm or keep telling me its rain....

The gift of discerning of spirits manifests in 2 ways...The Holy spirit allows the person he is manifesting the gift through to see and hear in the spiritual realm and they can and will hear angles, demons, evil/unclean spirits operating through or upon other people or otherwise.....the second way and most common manifestation of this gift is when .The Holy spirit allows the person he is manifesting the gift through to distinguish if a teaching, message or sermon is from God or not....

Ariel82 · Jul 19, 2017

Meggido said:

That isn't even logical.,,,if you accept the Gospel and accept Jesus, how is that NOT about "getting saved"?

The fruit The good soil bears is about what happens AFTER SALVATION, so again why would you claim its not about it?

I have already stated that the Gospel is about Jesus and what He did...so not sure why you are posting as if I disagree with that definition.

Why did you cut out my questions?

eternally-gratefull · Jul 19, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

Hi all

I am posting this here because some people do not understand what I believe and I want to make it clear to everyone what it is that I actually believe so there is no misunderstandings between us. I don't know how many times I have told some people here that we are saved by the things we do ("the Works of the Law"). Yet I am accused of believing something that I do not believe.

I believe that the true Gospel is the Word of God because Jesus is the Word and we only have life by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4) I believe it is only through the Law of God that we can see ourselves just as God sees us, as sinners in need of a savior and that all of our own righteousness is as filthy rags (Isa 64:6). It is only here as sinners, that we can see our need of help and cry out to Jesus "Lord save us we perish" (Matt 8:25). It is only in this conditions looking into the perfect Law of liberty (James 1:25) as our mirror that God's Law can be our schoolmaster that leads us to find Jesus as our very own Lamb of God that takes away our sins. God's Law shows us that all we can do without him is sin and that this disease is in us and that there is nothing that we can do in our own strength to save ourselves. It is only here that we can lay hold of the promises of God alone and by Faith alone completely depend on the Word of God to do what it says it will do that we see the love of God towards us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us and washed us in His own blood and that by His stripes we are healed and it is here that we love him because he first loved us (Rev 1:5; John 3:16; 1Pet 2:24; 1John 4:19)

People do not realize that it is only as we continue in his Word the very same way that we found Jesus by complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it will do in us by faith that we are His disciples (John 8:31). It is only here that we can see the God of Love and by beholding by faith we become changed into his image so that we can love as he has loved us (2Cor 3:18). Now finally we do not keep God's law for salvation but God works in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure as we have complete dependence and faith in His Word to do what it says it will do (Phil 2:13) and it is because we love Jesus that we follow him (John 14:15). Salvation is by Faith in God's Word alone. Only the Law of God can bring us to Christ that we might be justified by Faith (Gal 3:24). Do away with God's Law you do away with salvation because Jesus did not come to call the righteous but sinners (Matt 9:13) It is sinners that God makes into saints so that God can show the world "here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus" (Rev 14:12). It is only as God writes His Law of Love in us as we walk in the Spirit that we can follow Jesus (Rom 8:1-5). Love is the fulfilling of God's Law and is the New Covenant (Rom 13:10; Heb 8:10-12).

God's Word tells us that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Each one of us needs to decide for ourselves do we want to follow God's Word or the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God. We can only find God through His Word as we seek him and ask him (Isa 55:6-7; Jer 29:13; John 14:26). It is here he promises to help us and guide us and reveal himself to us.

It is God's Word that teaches that His 7th Day Sabbath is just as much a part of God's Law as the other 9 and God tells us if we break one of these commandments (10) we are guilty before God as sinners because sin is the transgression of God's Law (James 2:10-12; 1John 3:4)

Hope this help others to see that it is because I love Jesus not because I am worthy. I am a sinner. I love Jesus because of What he has done for me. I take hold of his Hand and walk with Him moment by moment by faith alone in His Word. It is God who works in me and changes my life so I can walk with Him

God bless you all.

If I read this right, If I do not follow the Sabbath, I can not be saved, And you preach the works of the law and doing them is what saves us, As I highlighted in your statement.

Meggido · Jul 19, 2017

Ariel82 said:

only 1 received the seed and they had the heart condition[good soil] to receive it....do you disagree?

Meggido · Jul 19, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

Hi all

I am posting this here because some people do not understand what I believe and I want to make it clear to everyone what it is that I actually believe so there is no misunderstandings between us. I don't know how many times I have told some people here that we are saved by the things we do ("the Works of the Law"). Yet I am accused of believing something that I do not believe.

I believe that the true Gospel is the Word of God because Jesus is the Word and we only have life by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4) I believe it is only through the Law of God that we can see ourselves just as God sees us, as sinners in need of a savior and that all of our own righteousness is as filthy rags (Isa 64:6). It is only here as sinners, that we can see our need of help and cry out to Jesus "Lord save us we perish" (Matt 8:25). It is only in this conditions looking into the perfect Law of liberty (James 1:25) as our mirror that God's Law can be our schoolmaster that leads us to find Jesus as our very own Lamb of God that takes away our sins. God's Law shows us that all we can do without him is sin and that this disease is in us and that there is nothing that we can do in our own strength to save ourselves. It is only here that we can lay hold of the promises of God alone and by Faith alone completely depend on the Word of God to do what it says it will do that we see the love of God towards us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us and washed us in His own blood and that by His stripes we are healed and it is here that we love him because he first loved us (Rev 1:5; John 3:16; 1Pet 2:24; 1John 4:19)

People do not realize that it is only as we continue in his Word the very same way that we found Jesus by complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it will do in us by faith that we are His disciples (John 8:31). It is only here that we can see the God of Love and by beholding by faith we become changed into his image so that we can love as he has loved us (2Cor 3:18). Now finally we do not keep God's law for salvation but God works in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure as we have complete dependence and faith in His Word to do what it says it will do (Phil 2:13) and it is because we love Jesus that we follow him (John 14:15). Salvation is by Faith in God's Word alone. Only the Law of God can bring us to Christ that we might be justified by Faith (Gal 3:24). Do away with God's Law you do away with salvation because Jesus did not come to call the righteous but sinners (Matt 9:13) It is sinners that God makes into saints so that God can show the world "here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus" (Rev 14:12). It is only as God writes His Law of Love in us as we walk in the Spirit that we can follow Jesus (Rom 8:1-5). Love is the fulfilling of God's Law and is the New Covenant (Rom 13:10; Heb 8:10-12).

God's Word tells us that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Each one of us needs to decide for ourselves do we want to follow God's Word or the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God. We can only find God through His Word as we seek him and ask him (Isa 55:6-7; Jer 29:13; John 14:26). It is here he promises to help us and guide us and reveal himself to us.

It is God's Word that teaches that His 7th Day Sabbath is just as much a part of God's Law as the other 9 and God tells us if we break one of these commandments (10) we are guilty before God as sinners because sin is the transgression of God's Law (James 2:10-12; 1John 3:4)

Hope this help others to see that it is because I love Jesus not because I am worthy. I am a sinner. I love Jesus because of What he has done for me. I take hold of his Hand and walk with Him moment by moment by faith alone in His Word. It is God who works in me and changes my life so I can walk with Him

God bless you all.

On tthe Sabbath day.....

Romans 14.5-9

[SUP]5 [/SUP]One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; [SUP]8 [/SUP]for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Slapping water on my legs and calling it rain........

LoveGodForever · Jul 19, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Hi EG,

No that is not what I am saying. In context to the rest of the post. It is only by Love that any of us can follow Jesus. The New Covenant is Christ's love in us. This is the hope of glory (Rom 8:9-11, Heb 8:10-12). Jesus working in us so that we can follow him. Love is the fulfilling of the Law. What it is saying in context is that if we have faith in God's Word we have a Savior that can save us from our sins so that we can follow him.

God bless

Ariel82 · Jul 19, 2017

Meggido said:

All four were given the Gospel...one had it stolen...one had too much pride/rocky soil and shallow roots..one allowed thorns to choke it....three allowed the seed to die and take root but only one bore fruit: saving faith and verbal confession unto salvation which allowed the one with good soil to receive the Holy spirit.

The other three were not born again of the Spirit. They received the Gospel message but did NOT receive CHRIST JESUS.

Seohce · Jul 19, 2017

Ariel82 said:

So you believe that it is founded or based on actions and assurance then why do some on this thread say that "works are works are works" and therefore imply that all sort of works are the same while on the other hand claim that God is the one doing all the work in a believer? Why do people disprove people quoting verses regarding walking righteously and blameless instead of agreeing and praising God. I personally believe that Jesus is our Lord and Savior and I am very grateful that God raised Him from the dead. Does this mean that I am already saved eternally without proving to the Judge that I am worthy His justification and am obliged to live according to the Spirit and putting to death the misdeeds of the flesh?

Romans 8:12-13 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,

If BELIEVING is a work according to God(john 6:28-29)and let us be honest to accept that or be found a liar, would you still say that FAITH ALONE SAVES? Isn't it that faith is one of the gifts of God accdg to 1 cor 12:4-11), do we then disqualify or reject the other gifts which is tantamount to rejecting the other parts of the Body who received a different gift?

Isn't it that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD, just as the body without the Spirit is dead?(james 2:14-26)

How can anyone claim to be in Christ(and Christ in God) if we do not do exactly what He says or commands?

John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.

Can we just say that we believe and we love God without obeying His command to love God and our neighbors.(john 5:1-3, 3:16-18)

1 John 3:16-18 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

Jesus said that He does exactly what the Father has commanded Him, then why would some in here say that looking after the welfare of the widows and the fatherless are just dead works while even God considers it as pure and blameless and it is consistent with His command which is to love your neighbor.

Now, can faith without love save you?(1 cor 13:2) I don't think so. It's just like saying FAITH WITHOUT GOD because God is love(1 john4:8&16) and LOVE should manifest in ACTION & IN TRUTH.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

LoveGodForever · Jul 19, 2017

Meggido said:

Hi Med,

No that is not saying at all that we no longer need to keep the 7th Day Sabbath a holy day. It does not even mention the 7th Day Sabbath. It is actually talking about the feast days and Holy days of of Leviticus 23. These were shadows that were pointing to Jesus and nailed to the cross (Col 2:14) Go read about them there.

In fact there is not one scripture in God's Word that says we no longer need to keep his 4th Commandment Holy.

Try and find one bible verse to answer even one of the questions below that says....

The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that has no basis in God's Word whatsoever. This thread however is not really the place to talk about it. Maybe the Sabbath thread is better.

God bless

UnderGrace · Jul 19, 2017

The believer is to live in the liberty and power of God's Grace by the Spirit, NOT the rule of law.

Your theology very plainly nullifies the cross, what "blows my mind" to use a figure of speech is that you cannot even see it.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

LoveGodForever said:

LoveGodForever · Jul 19, 2017

UnderGrace said:

Hi UG,

Not really because I am not saying what you think I am saying. It is only through God's Law that we come to the cross. This is where we find Jesus. Without the Law of God you cannot find the cross. It brings us there so that we can be justified by faith in God's promises. This is how we are to continue in God's Word by complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it will do. By Faith are you save (from sin) and not of yourselves... it is a gift of God. The post you quoted me from is from Rom 8 as well

. I love that whole chapter it is the new Covenant and combines with Heb 8:10-12

God bless

Meggido · Jul 19, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

Gal 3.23-29 kind of disagrees with you....The Law showed us Christ , until faith came.....

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. [SUP]26 [/SUP]For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Ariel82 · Jul 19, 2017

Seohce said:

1. So you believe that it is founded or based on actions and assurance

2. then why do some on this thread say that "works are works are works" and therefore imply that all sort of works are the same while on the other hand claim that God is the one doing all the work in a believer?

3. Why do people disprove people quoting verses regarding walking righteously and blameless instead of agreeing and praising God.

4.I personally believe that Jesus is our Lord and Savior and I am very grateful that God raised Him from the dead.
Does this mean that I am already saved eternally without proving to the Judge that I am worthy His justification and am obliged to live according to the Spirit and putting to death the misdeeds of the flesh?

Romans 8:12-13 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,

6. If BELIEVING is a work according to God(john 6:28-29)and let us be honest to accept that or be found a liar, would you still say that FAITH ALONE SAVES?

7. Isn't it that faith is one of the gifts of God accdg to 1 cor 12:4-11), do we then disqualify or reject the other gifts which is tantamount to rejecting the other parts of the Body who received a different gift?

8. Isn't it that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD, just as the body without the Spirit is dead?(james 2:14-26)

9. How can anyone claim to be in Christ(and Christ in God) if we do not do exactly what He says or commands?

John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.

10. Can we just say that we believe and we love God without obeying His command to love God and our neighbors.(john 5:1-3, 3:16-18)

1 John 3:16-18 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

11. Jesus said that He does exactly what the Father has commanded Him, then why would some in here say that looking after the welfare of the widows and the fatherless are just dead works while even God considers it as pure and blameless and it is consistent with His command which is to love your neighbor.

12. Now, can faith without love save you?(1 cor 13:2)

I don't think so. It's just like saying FAITH WITHOUT GOD because God is love(1 john4:8&16) and LOVE should manifest in ACTION & IN TRUTH.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Do you actually want an answer to all these questions?

Or are they just rhetoric for your platform?

Gonna go back and number them.....12 questions ...some with premises I disagree with, but we could discuss them all if you wish. However if you think you already know how I will answer, then I won't bother.

Gabriel2020 · Jul 19, 2017

You decieve even your own self. If you dont have a spirit then you are dead. This mean all spirits. Your wordly knowledge is foolishness. One that is of the devil

Meggido · Jul 19, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Do you actually want an answer to all these questions?

Or are they just rhetoric for your platform?

Gonna go back and number them.....12 questions ...some with premises I disagree with, but we could discuss them all if you wish. However if you think you already know how I will answer, then I won't bother.

at least I challenge you huh Ariel?

Ariel82 · Jul 19, 2017

Fyi.... The Word of God is a "He" not an "it"....as in We rely on JESUS not the LAW not the ten commandments or other old covenant shadows (such as the Sabbath and the feasts) of which Jesus is the SUBSTANCE.

Ariel82 · Jul 19, 2017

Meggido said:

Love you too Meggido. Lol.

Ariel82 · Jul 19, 2017

Bedtime will check in when God gives me time. God bless and keep you all.

LoveGodForever · Jul 19, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Hi Ariel

There is no premise to any of those questions. Either the bible verses is there in God's Word or they are not. You can do whatever you like. Show even one bible verse that answers any one of those questions if you like. Here is a hint however you wont find one. But as I said earlier this is not a Sabbath thread so I don't mind either way. If you want to talk about it I am always happy to share God's Word

God bless

LoveGodForever · Jul 19, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Good night have nice rest

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