Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

No, all these things are true for the one who believes. Not for the one who has departed the faith in unbelief.

Keep believing and all these promises are true and are yours, and no one can take them away from you.

And by the way, John has said they were never of us, for if they were of us, they never would have left. The left to prove they were never really of us.

You can not lose salvation, You maye think you have it, and not have it, by which you will lose faith, because it was never rooted to begin with,

But you can not lose salvation, Because you can not save yourself. or keep yourself saved.

Again, It is God who made the promises, if he messed up and saved someone he has to take it back, thats on him, He has to fulfill his promise, or his word is meaningless.

 

[notuptome]

And by the way, John has said they were never of us, for if they were of us, they never would have left. The left to prove they were never really of us.

You can not lose salvation, You maye think you have it, and not have it, by which you will lose faith, because it was never rooted to begin with,

But you can not lose salvation, Because you can not save yourself. or keep yourself saved.

Again, It is God who made the promises, if he messed up and saved someone he has to take it back, thats on him, He has to fulfill his promise, or his word is meaningless.

Faith is not feelings. Feelings change but faith does not. When faith is tested it stands firm. Feelings change with the weather. James commented on those who are double minded.

Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

I don't feel that I am saved I know that I am saved by grace through faith which trusts in Christ and the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith is not feelings. Feelings change but faith does not. When faith is tested it stands firm. Feelings change with the weather. James commented on those who are double minded.

Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

I don't feel that I am saved I know that I am saved by grace through faith which trusts in Christ and the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

amen, it stands firm because it is rooted in the good soil, and when trouble comes, it stands firm (it may waver but it will still stand firm)

it is the faith rooted in other things which will fade away, Because I think as you said, they are based on feelings. Not true living faith.

 

[gb9]

amen, it stands firm because it is rooted in the good soil, and when trouble comes, it stands firm (it may waver but it will still stand firm)

it is the faith rooted in other things which will fade away, Because I think as you said, they are based on feelings. Not true living faith.

to keep this excellent point going- what is one of the strongest feelings that people, especially men, have? PRIDE . what does too much of it lead to- self righteousness. where does that lead to?? "look at good, holy, right with God I am, you need to be like me". what is that? works salvationism!

 

[Grace777x70]

There is a massive difference between church discipline to protect the people and the Lord sending you to hell as can be seen by the letter Paul said to the 1 Corinthians.

Paul told them who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach and thus their loving Father will throw His beloved children into hell.

( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man is Christ really is. )

Paul told them who they were in Christ...Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.


1) The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,

2) The Corinthians were now saints by calling - not by works that we do or don't do.

3) The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,

4) The Corinthians had the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,

5) The Corinthians had that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ

6) The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ ( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness )

7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption


1 Corinthians 1:1-9 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,


Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only think that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12.

The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32

 

[dcontroversal]

Numerous times now over the last few months, the scripture that's been coming up in my mind is the one where God says "if you being evil know how to give good things to your children, then how much more will your Heavenly father"

It really makes you think. Because we are finite creations of an infinite God, and we cannot put an infinite God into a finite box.

There are cases where a finite father will break his promises and might even abandon his children, but God doesn't and He said He will never leave us or forsake us.

And while a finite father loves his children, how much more does God love His children?

AMEN.....and I too have pondered this verse along with the statement about none being good but GOD....stated at a time when there were saved, immersed disciples of Jesus on the earth......

 

[dcontroversal]

Interesting. Did not know that. I also heard baptists teach conditional security?? A while ago I watched on youtube a lady that had some dream and was claiming that she saw born again believers in hell, that they had sinned and had not been forgiven of those sins before they died, and it was an urgent warning to the church! Not sure if this was just her, or whether the baptist churches actually teach this?


But would say that when one is convicted of their sins, and they become a new creature in Christ, that then they know what they were saved from. Those who are currently without truth don't seek to witness to others, because they don't have the truth to begin with.

With catholicism, all I've seen is when a catholic wants to marry and the fiance is expected to convert so that their baby will be raised catholic. Or maybe I'm wrong, that their fiance can be of a different religion so long as their baby is raised in the RCC?

Some groups within the Baptist ranks do indeed teach such fallacies....the bible is clear on eternal security and even Paul's question points to it...What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Verb TENSE
Scripture in context
Words and their definitions
The promises of Jesus
etc.

Must all be denied and swept under the table to teach the loss of salvation......

 

[dcontroversal]

then it is not eternal, god lied, and non of us have any hope.

The word eternal means forver, eternal life is not some religious key word, like so much in the church wants to make up new meanings to, it is a fact, whoever believes or trusts God will live forever, that is what the words actually mean.

As for holding fast, a plant can not hold itself into the ground, you give a plant way to much power, a plants future is determined by where it is seated, a plant that is seeded not in firm soil will perish, that is jut the plain facts,

finally, God is the one who made the promise,

God said I give you eternal life,

God said you have it the most you trust him and ask for it

God said he gave you the seal of th spirit.

God said you were born of incorruptible seed

God said you were perfect d forever yet he is in the process of sanctifying g you

God said you will never die, live forever, and be raised on the last day.

thse are all on God, if God made a mistake and gave these things to a person who later decides this god does not exist, that's no God, just like any of us who give someone a gift, we are obligated to fullfill our pledge no matter what, if we, or God, decides to not carry out our promise, we are the sinner, we have destroyed our word, we are not worthy of anyone's faith,

sorry, it's not a free will thing, it is a God thing, God knows all things, he knew everything you would d rom birth to death before you were even conceived, God does not make mistakes. Period, to say he does, just wow.. just wow.

Amen....passed from death unto life....a present continuing result from a past completed action.......<--Greek verb tense denied by those who teach it can be lost or forfeit.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen....passed from death unto life....a present continuing result from a past completed action.......<--Greek verb tense denied by those who teach it can be lost or forfeit.

Amen...I love the verb tense and voice when Paul is speaking of salvation "as in being one with the Lord forever".

Here is a post about Ephesians 2:8-9 that has spoken to me of the completed work of Christ for us.

Quote:

Eph 2:8~~New American Standard Bible

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

The Believer's Study Bible writes that...

The full sense of the expression “you have been saved” is difficult to capture in English.

The Greek perfect tense emphasizes action initiated in the past, the effects of which continue into the present and beyond. Therefore, salvation has a moment of initiation in the past, but the results of that primary experience continue (Ed: See Three Tenses of Salvation).

This is another evidence of the permanence of our salvation, a doctrine which is called the “eternal security of the believer.” (Criswell, W A. Believer's Study Bible: New King James Version. 1991. Thomas Nelson)

Commenting on the significance of the tense of the two verbs "been" (present tense) and "saved" (perfect tense) Kenneth Wuest writes...

Not content with the details offered by the perfect tense, Paul uses a periphrastic construction (Ed note: a periphrasis is the use of a longer phrasing in place of a possible shorter form of expression = a roundabout way of expressing something.

In Greek it specifically means the use of a verb in any tense but aorist in combination with the verb eimi = to be as the auxiliary verb) consisting of the participle in the perfect tense and the verb of being in the present tense.

The perfect tense speaks of the existence of finished results in present time, whereas Paul wanted to express persistence of finished results through present time. So he borrows the durative aspect of the present tense verb to give persistence to the existing results.

The Expanded Translation reads: “By the grace have you been saved completely with the result that you are in a state of salvation which persists through present time.”

Present time in this instance is always the time at which the reader reads his statement. The security of the believer could not have been expressed in stronger terms.

(Wuest, Kenneth - The Practical Use of the Greek New Testament - Part II: The Eloquence of Greek Tenses and Moods - Bibliotheca Sacra: A quarterly published by Dallas Theological Seminary. Volume 117. Issue 466. Page 142) (Theological Journal Subscription info) (List of 22 journals - 500 yrs of articles searchable by topic or verse! Incredible Online Resource!)


Here is the link from a former member's post.

Verse for "once saved always saved"?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Soooo, just to recap:

Salvation by works does NOTHING to get you saved, nor keep you saved.

We are saved by God's grace, through our faith and belief in Him.

John 3:16 says that ALL who believe, shall be saved.

ALL have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God. So that throws sinless perfectionism out the window.. LOL

 

[dcontroversal]

Works-based salvationists say that we lose our salvation by what we do or don't do ( which is not based on what Christ has already done ). That is called works-righteousness.

John says that they truth is in us forever. One is telling the truth.

2 John 1:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

[SUP]2 [/SUP] For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.

The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in us forever too. John 14:16

Jesus said that no one that the Father gives Him will He lose. Jesus said that he will never leave nor forsake us. Jesus said that no one can pluck us out of His hand.

Personally I am going to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe that He is not a liar.

I agree....no matter how they slice, dice and twist...a salvation that can be lost must be maintained by something that one does other than Christ....it boils down to a works based salvation....end of story.....other than it is false of course...!

 

[dcontroversal]

And by the way, John has said they were never of us, for if they were of us, they never would have left. The left to prove they were never really of us.

You can not lose salvation, You maye think you have it, and not have it, by which you will lose faith, because it was never rooted to begin with,

But you can not lose salvation, Because you can not save yourself. or keep yourself saved.

Again, It is God who made the promises, if he messed up and saved someone he has to take it back, thats on him, He has to fulfill his promise, or his word is meaningless.

Paul includes himself and even Timothy when he states clearly.....IF WE believe not, HE abides faithful because he cannot deny HIMSELF........

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree....no matter how they slice, dice and twist...a salvation that can be lost must be maintained by something that one does other than Christ....it boils down to a works based salvation....end of story.....other than it is false of course...!

I agree...

IMO - what happens is that we can see the warning scriptures and our un-renewed mind goes to the default setting of - the Lord dis-owns you or you are going to hell. This is because of bad teaching that only sees the warning scriptures as a heaven or hell situation.

These do not know the heart of the Father, the finished work of Christ for us, - basically what the gospel actually is and what the whole purpose of the gospel is in the first place.

I know - I was there - I had a few things the Lord had to "un-learn" from my religious church teachings and I'm betting that there are many more things to come. I had and most likely still do have my "sacred cows".

When we come to the point where we are totally honest with the Lord and say "I don't care what it is - but reveal Yourself and the true gospel to me by your Spirit" and I will believe that. Then the scriptures began to open up to me and I was amazed at the grace and love of God in Christ for me.

It was like being born-again - again. I have heard the very same thing being said from many others too.

I could never go back to that performance-driven religion of works. That religion is a very poor substitute for knowing the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father for who they truly are.

 

[dcontroversal]

Faith is not feelings. Feelings change but faith does not. When faith is tested it stands firm. Feelings change with the weather. James commented on those who are double minded.

Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

I don't feel that I am saved I know that I am saved by grace through faith which trusts in Christ and the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

These things are written that YOU MAY KNOW...........it boils down to faith and trust....either one does or does not....I believe the words of JESUS....HE said HE began my faith and he will finish my faith.....he will complete that good work that he began in me....He will never leave me nor forsake me and he will abide faithful because he cannot deny himself....end of story......

 

[Burninglight]

You are taking the Lords name in vain.

I don't believe Christians should mention the expression "My God" just to emphasize their emotions unless it is a very serious situation, but you do know that God is not God's name?

 

[Rosemaryx]

So what happens if we no longer believe?

Unquote:

We often hear this statement being said.

So, this implies that anyone can stop believing even though they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. You realize there is a difference between the heart of man and the mind of man?

We believe in the heart - not in the head. People can be messed up in their heads because of wrong thinking and be sick. This doesn't negate the work of Christ in their hearts - in their spirit where they are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6;17

At what point does Jesus leave you and separate Himself from you? He did say that He would never leave you nor forsake you.

If someone could at any time "change their believing in their heart" and the completely foolish belief that one can "un-born" themselves.

- then that means that Paul and all the other Christians that have gone to heaven can now as an act of their own mind choose to not believe in Christ. It's foolishness and it is a deception from the enemy to get us "working to keep our salvation". Christ Himself is our salvation - not us.

Can any Christian that is with the Lord now choose to not believe in Him in his heart? Think this through.

No, my brethren - belief in Christ and true faith is born in the heart of man and we are then born-again and have been created a new creation in Christ - sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Let's preach and teach Christ and all that He has already done so that us Christians will have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him so that others in this world can see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

Hi Grace...I like the way you have explained this...I am a new born again child of God, i have been walking with the Lord 2 years this October, and everyday since i was born again i crave Him even more, the urge inside of me wants to cling to Him, i know it is not a fad or faze i am going through because i crave Him from my heart and not my mind, minds change, one day/month/year someone changes their mind to suit whatever way they want to live, when Jesus is in your heart, the changes are being made for us, we walk in the Spirit, we abide in the Spirit and grow in the Spirit, the Holy Spirit is renewing my mind, my thoughts, my way of thinking,those that believe they have been born again and continue to live their old life style were never born again in the first place, thats why they change their mind because its a mind thing with them, not a heart felt love for our Lord Jesus...xox...Sorry if i went on a bit lol...xox...

 

[UnderGrace]

The gift is eternal life not only forgiveness.

The gift of eternal life is based on one singular event, a transaction between God as judge and the new believer.

Scripture says it is a gift meaning that it cannot be earned, however the transaction is far more involved.

The gift is a payment of a debt of sin, those sins are only forgiven because of the work that Christ completely accomplished. To say that God gives back the gift is to say once declared innocent of all debt we now have become guilty again.

You cannot be declared innocent of a charge and then go back to being guilty.

This is absolutely a singular transaction. It is a singular transaction because all men fell because of a singular event in the garden of Eden, and therefore God restores us to justified status via a singular pronouncement. Otherwise the work of Adam is stronger than the work of Jesus.

Think and pray on this...God's way is absolutely perfect ...a perfect solution for a fallen humanity.

The problem of unbelief cannot be handled under being Justified...that my friend is a different courtroom of living out one's true faith as a new creation.

Don't miss the point of the passage.
The man in the story lost the forgiveness of the debt that he received that he could not pay himself.
Jesus said that's how it is in the kingdom. His Father will treat each of us the way the King treated the man in the story if we do not forgive as we have been freely forgiven. IOW, we will lose the forgiven we have if we do not forgive. But so many people in the church insist you can not lose your redemption, the forgiveness of your sins (Ephesians 1:7), under any circumstances whatsoever and that you are irretrievably saved, and that not even unbelief can cause God to revoke his free gift of forgiveness.

 

[dcontroversal]

The gift is eternal life not only forgiveness.

The gift of eternal life is based on one singular event, a transaction between God as judge and the new believer.

Scripture says it is a gift meaning that it cannot be earned, however the transaction is far more involved.

The gift is a payment of a debt of sin, those sins are only forgiven because of the work that Christ completely accomplished. To say that God gives back the gift is to say once declared innocent of all debt we now have become guilty again.

You cannot be declared innocent of a charge and then go back to being guilty.

This is absolutely a singular transaction. It is a singular transaction because all men fell because of a singular event in the garden of Eden, and therefore God restores us to justified status via a singular pronouncement. Otherwise the work of Adam is stronger than the work of Jesus.

Think and pray on this...God's way is absolutely perfect ...a perfect solution for a fallen humanity.

The problem of unbelief cannot be handled under being Justified...that my friend is a different courtroom of living out one's true faith as a new creation.

Amen and agree for sure.....!

 

[stonesoffire]

There's scripture where Jesus said something like if we don't forgive, the tormenters will come. I've not yet found the scripture and can't remember where it is right now.

The new law is to love others as He has loved us. That is complete forgiveness if we think about it. Can't hold anything against anyone else.

If we do...we don't lose our salvation if we should pass on...but will be tormented in mind.

I believe a lot of mental illness is linked to being abused...and not able to let it go...takes deliverance. Abuse comes in many ways.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The gift is eternal life not only forgiveness.

The gift of eternal life is based on one singular event, a transaction between God as judge and the new believer.

Scripture says it is a gift meaning that it cannot be earned, however the transaction is far more involved.

The gift is a payment of a debt of sin, those sins are only forgiven because of the work that Christ completely accomplished. To say that God gives back the gift is to say once declared innocent of all debt we now have become guilty again.

You cannot be declared innocent of a charge and then go back to being guilty.

This is absolutely a singular transaction. It is a singular transaction because all men fell because of a singular event in the garden of Eden, and therefore God restores us to justified status via a singular pronouncement. Otherwise the work of Adam is stronger than the work of Jesus.

Think and pray on this...God's way is absolutely perfect ...a perfect solution for a fallen humanity.

The problem of unbelief cannot be handled under being Justified...that my friend is a different courtroom of living out one's true faith as a new creation.

Amen, By one act, All men fall, even so, by one act, all men shall be made alive, for as in adam all die, even so in christ shall all be made alive.

one act. One moment,

All of my sin was future when Christ died, When I come to ask home for mercy, ALL my sin is in question, I did not ask God to die for my past sin, I ask him to save me from myself, From all my sins,