Earth is Flat and Stationary

[trofimus]

So Genesis was incorrect using earth instead of land, or are you just claiming earth CAN be translated as land with greek?

How does this effect the earth being created before the sun, and light before the sun?

How does day translated as "period of time" lead you to believe the earth not created before the sun, and light before sun?

I still think you misspoke and actually meant to argue figurative vs literal, but wait for more evidence and specifics from you to argue your position that the earth was not created before the sun, and that light was created before the sun.

For example, English "And God made two lights" in the original language does not have to mean "now", but "in any time in the past".

I know, it destroys half of your arguments, but it is so.

 

[pckts]

It does make sense with Scriptures in the minute you realize that not every nature description in Scriptures is a technical description from the outer point of view, but rather a percieved description from the human point of view.

Also, flat earth does not make sense with anything. Neither with Scriptures nor with our daily lifes.

Earlier you defended the globe by saying that not every Bible verse is a technical description, but from the human point of view.

Now you are claiming that Genesis was describing the creation of the globe universe, rather than a creation of earth from the human perspective.

You decide on your own authority where you want the verses to be from "the human point of view", and where you want them to be a "technical description", to match the globe model.

 

[Zen]

So, in the verse one?

Do you accept then, that in the first verse the Universe was created, our planet, waters above its surface?

So why cant you accept that also stars, sun or moon were created in the first verse?

You keep using the word "universe" which doesn't appear in the bible. It's an atheist / deception / big bang word to describe things we see in the sky.

The earth, water and heaven are all that are mentioned. You believe it's an all-inclusive creation of everything, it's not. If it was an all-inclusive creation in verse 1 why would God talk about subsequent actions of creation until the the 7th day sabbath?

And why would God tell people to keep the sabbath holy and that it was set apart if it wasn't an actual day period of 24 hours? If you start talking about "periods of time like 50,000 years" or other nonsense, you can make creation say anything you want to. "6 days but actually it was 6 billion years because "day" means period of time".

 

[pckts]

For example, English "And God made two lights" in the original language does not have to mean "now", but "in any time in the past".

I know, it destroys half of your arguments, but it is so.

Genesis is separated by days or "periods of time", so when they are listed in chronological order and on a later day or "period of time" God "made two lights", this refers to "now" (or the current day), not "any time in the past"

You claim it "does not have to mean", not that it "does not mean". And the chronological days or "periods of time" in the description, gives concrete "periods of time" to order this creation.

This destroys your entire argument. You are looking for any way possible to interpret Genesis 1 figuratively, but by ignoring the chronically and wording used, your interpretations are taken out of context and are wrong.

Do you understand what I am saying? You say it "does not have to mean" "now", but the separate days of Genesis means that this does not apply here. It actually does mean "now" (within the given day), rather than "in any time of the past"

 

[trofimus]

Earlier you defended the globe by saying that not every Bible verse is a technical description, but from the human point of view.

Now you are claiming that Genesis was describing the creation of the globe universe, rather than a creation of earth from the human perspective.

You decide on your own authority where you want the verses to be from "the human point of view", and where you want them to be a "technical description", to match the globe model.

What do you mean by "the globe universe"?

 

[pckts]

What do you mean by "the globe universe"?

The universe the globe earth exists in, respond to my post:

Genesis is separated by days or "periods of time", so when they are listed in chronological order and on a later day or "period of time" God "made two lights", this refers to "now" (or the current day), not "any time in the past"

You claim it "does not have to mean", not that it "does not mean". And the chronological days or "periods of time" in the description, gives concrete "periods of time" to order this creation.

This destroys your entire argument. You are looking for any way possible to interpret Genesis 1 figuratively, but by ignoring the chronically and wording used, your interpretations are taken out of context and are wrong.

Do you understand what I am saying? You say it "does not have to mean" "now", but the separate days of Genesis means that this does not apply here. It actually does mean "now" (within the given day), rather than "in any time of the past"

 

[trofimus]

You keep using the word "universe" which doesn't appear in the bible. It's an atheist / deception / big bang word to describe things we see in the sky.

The earth, water and heaven are all that are mentioned. You believe it's an all-inclusive creation of everything, it's not. If it was an all-inclusive creation in verse 1 why would God talk about subsequent actions of creation until the the 7th day sabbath?

And why would God tell people to keep the sabbath holy and that it was set apart if it wasn't an actual day period of 24 hours? If you start talking about "periods of time like 50,000 years" or other nonsense, you can make creation say anything you want to. "6 days but actually it was 6 billion years because "day" means period of time".

The creation of water is not mentioned!

That means that in the verse 1, the creation of "heaven and earth" is a general description, not a specific one.

I.E. the creation of the Universe till the state of our planet full of waters. Then the terraforming creation events took place in 6 days.

And by "day" I do not mean 24 hours.

 

[pckts]

The creation of water is not mentioned!

That means that in the verse 1, the creation of "heaven and earth" is a general description, not a specific one.

I.E. the creation of the Universe till the state of our planet full of waters. Then the terraforming creation events took place in 6 days.

And by "day" I do not mean 24 hours.

I agree the water existed in the beginning. The darkness on the face of the deep, the deep is this uniform ocean that God later divided.

 

[trofimus]

Genesis is separated by days or "periods of time", so when they are listed in chronological order and on a later day or "period of time" God "made two lights", this refers to "now" (or the current day), not "any time in the past"

You claim it "does not have to mean", not that it "does not mean". And the chronological days or "periods of time" in the description, gives concrete "periods of time" to order this creation.

This destroys your entire argument. You are looking for any way possible to interpret Genesis 1 figuratively, but by ignoring the chronically and wording used, your interpretations are taken out of context and are wrong.

Do you understand what I am saying? You say it "does not have to mean" "now", but the separate days of Genesis means that this does not apply here. It actually does mean "now" (within the given day), rather than "in any time of the past"

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, to divide between day and night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and for years.
And let them be for light in the firmament of the heaven, so as to shine upon the earth, and it was so. "
- this happened in this specific "day", "now", "it was so"

"And God made the two great lights, the greater light for regulating the day and the lesser light for regulating the night, the stars also."
- this happened in the verse 1, not "now"

 

[trofimus]

I agree the water existed in the beginning. The darkness on the face of the deep, the deep is this uniform ocean that God later divided.

If it existed, it was created in the verse 1, simple.

That means that the verse one includes whole the creation up to the point of the already existing planet with surface full of waters.

 

[pckts]

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, to divide between day and night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and for years.
And let them be for light in the firmament of the heaven, so as to shine upon the earth, and it was so. "
- this happened in this specific "day", "now", "it was so.

"And God made the two great lights, the greater light for regulating the day and the lesser light for regulating the night, the stars also."
- this happened in the verse 1, not "now"

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the evening and the morning were the third day.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.



Explain to me why this happened in verse 1, instead of in between the third day and the fourth day where it is located.

 

[pckts]

If it existed, it was created in the verse 1, simple.

That means that the verse one includes whole the creation up to the point of the already existing planet with surface full of waters.

No it absolutely does not, this is you bending the scriptures to fit science by interpreting figuratively.

All it says is that water existing when heaven and earth were created.

 

[Zen]

If it existed, it was created in the verse 1, simple.

That means that the verse one includes whole the creation up to the point of the already existing planet with surface full of waters.

All that existed in verse 1 was the earth, the water on the earth, and heaven. It was still dark, no stars, no sun, no moon, no animals, no plants. They all came later.

A full "universe" was not created. All of the following verses after Genesis 1:1 tell you what was created and when.

Light, earth, time, water. They all existed before the sun and stars.

 

[pckts]

Here is a flat earth creation using scripture:

There is no already existing planet with a surface full of water in verse 1.

[video=youtube;YBMqjy4O-7I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBMqjy4O-7I[/video]

To fit your model by interpreting figuratively you would have to have planets with water on them by verse 1, but the scripture never states or implies this occurs.

And I'm still waiting to see where Greek interpretation informed you that the earth was not created before the sun, and light not before the sun.

And I want to know why you place the sun's creation in verse 1, rather than in between the end of the third day and end of the fourth day where it is located.

On what authority do you move this verse?

 

[trofimus]

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the evening and the morning were the third day.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.



Explain to me why this happened in verse 1, instead of in between the third day and the fourth day where it is located.

I already did. You just do not want to see it.

"Let there be lights..." .... "And it was so" - it happened now in this day, that the lights appeared in the sky.

"And God made two lights (in the past) .... and placed them in the firmanent (in this specific day)".

 

[trofimus]

All that existed in verse 1 was the earth, the water on the earth, and heaven. It was still dark, no stars, no sun, no moon, no animals, no plants. They all came later.

A full "universe" was not created. All of the following verses after Genesis 1:1 tell you what was created and when.

Light, earth, time, water. They all existed before the sun and stars.

Yes, the terraforming events came later. Like separation of the waters (atmosphere), thick clouds covering sun, moon and stars to be visible from the Earth were cleared so the life could be possible etc.

 

[pckts]

I already did. You just do not want to see it.

"Let there be lights..." .... "And it was so" - it happened now in this day, that the lights appeared in the sky.

"And God made two lights (in the past) .... and placed them in the firmanent (in this specific day)".

let there be lights occurs in verse 14.

God making the two lights referencing his creation in verse 14, when He created lights in the firmament of heaven.


It specifically says He created the two lights and placed them in the firmament, and the firmament was not created until verse 6.

"And God made the two great lights, the greater light for regulating the day and the lesser light for regulating the night, the stars also."
- this happened in the verse 1, not "now"

How is it you claim "this happened in verse 1", When the firmament wasn't created until verse 6, and the lights were not placed in the firmament until verse 14.

And on what authority do you move the placement of these events before the "days" or "periods of time" in which they are located?

 

[trofimus]

let there be lights occurs in verse 14.

God making the two lights referencing his creation in verse 14, when He created lights in the firmament of heaven.


It specifically says He created the two lights and placed them in the firmament, and the firmament was not created until verse 6.



How is it you claim "this happened in verse 1", When the firmament wasn't created until verse 6, and the lights were not placed in the firmament until verse 14.

And on what authority do you move the placement of these events before the "days" or "periods of time" in which they are located?

Stars, moon and sun were created in the verse one.

They were placed into the firmanent, i.e. made visible in the sky from the surface of the Earth in the day 3.

Also, try to use normal formatting without colors and size changing, its very bad and distracting from reading.

 

[pckts]

Stars, moon and sun were created in the verse one.

They were placed into the firmanent, i.e. made visible in the sky from the surface of the Earth in the day 3.

Also, try to use normal formatting without colors and size changing, its very bad and distracting from reading.

On what authority do you place verse 14
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Into verse 1?

You do this with figurative interpretation to fit the globe model, and ignore and rearrange the scripture to your own pleasing.

You also claim God created the stars, moon, and sun, before he created light in verse 3. On what authority do you make this claim?

It's figurative interpretation to satisfy the authority of man's science.

 

[trofimus]

On what authority do you place verse 14
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Into verse 1?

You do this with figurative interpretation to fit the globe model, and ignore and rearrange the scripture to your own pleasing.

You also claim God created the stars, moon, and sun, before he created light in verse 3. On what authority do you make this claim?

It's figurative interpretation to satisfy the authority of man's science.

If you cant format your posts normally, I will ignore you.