The Rapture

[J7]

It is the latter time of the Greek Kingdom

 

[KJV1611]

It is the latter time of the Greek Kingdom

So this isn't the antichrist in your view?

Daniel 8:25 KJV
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 

[J7]

So this isn't the antichrist in your view?

Daniel 8:25 KJV
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

no.

Does it say anywhere that he is???

No. It just says he is a Greek King

 

[KJV1611]

no.

Does it say anywhere that he is???

No. It just says he is a Greek King

Yes a spiritual king in my view... I can see how we have a disconnect now lol. So the daily sacrifice being taken away in verse 11 has nothing to do with end times in your view?

Daniel 8:11 KJV
Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

 

[J7]

no. Nothing whatsoever. just stick to the text!!


[FONT=&quot]21 The male goat is the king of Greece, (1) and the great horn between its eyes is the first king.(2) 22 As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose, (3) four kingdoms shall arise from his nation, but not with his power.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]23 At the end of their rule,



You just need to understand what is being said, but if you leap in without a clue about the preceding chapters of Daniel, you are liable to go full Futurist whack-job. You just need to identify what is being referred to. Its not difficult either.
[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[KJV1611]

no. Nothing whatsoever. just stick to the text!!


21 The male goat is the king of Greece, (1) and the great horn between its eyes is the first king.(2) 22 As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose, (3) four kingdoms shall arise from his nation, but not with his power.
23 At the end of their rule,



You just need to understand what is being said, but if you leap in without a clue about the preceding chapters of Daniel, you are liable to go full Futurist whack-job. You just need to identify what is being referred to. Its not difficult either.

I'm not going futurist lol. I see the king of fierce countenance understanding DARK SENTENCES as Jesus uttering things kept secret from the foundation of the world and then getting angry with the wicked Jews.

So what is the little horn in chapter 7 that comes out of the 4th beast?

 

[J7]

The RCC..........

 

[KJV1611]

The RCC..........

Rcc with ANOTHER DIFFERENT little horn?

 

[J7]

yes...........

 

[heartofdavid]

Ok, so you are a self-taught dispensationalist, none of which undermines Tanakh's words,
which have great relevance, as most have imbibed their understanding from some cup or other, often unwittingly.

When something takes 40 odd years to construct, people get very attached to it. But Jesus had no qualms about tearing down the false worship centre of the Temple, and if you are in error, your work will be exposed, as wood, and earth, and burnt down too.

We can expose false teaching for what it is, folly; but fools despise wisdom and instruction (Proverbs 1:7), fools hate knowledge (Proverbs 1:22), The way of a fool is right in his own eyes (Proverbs 12:15), Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly (Proverbs 13:20), in the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride (Proverbs 14:3), the folly of fools is deceit (Proverbs 14:8), and "he that uttereth a slander, is a fool".

So, back to the seals; all the Church has been taken up at this point you say, prior to the first seal. But this is palpable nonsense, (again). After the opening of the fifth seal (Revelation 6) we see part of the Church still on earth, still awaiting martyrdom:



I am sorry, this is laugh out loud stuff. You're telling us Jesus begins his judgement on the earth with the first seal, and here we have the Saints pleading with Jesus, after 5 seals have been broken, to execute judgement on the earth.

I kind of pity you Ahwatukee. But then I look at all the people who lap up your homespun balsa theologies, and shake my head in despair. Why do they lap them up? Because they, even if you are entirely autodidactic, are not and have imbibed dispensationalism, and your skewed misinterpretations chime a deep chord in them.

I take no pleasure in saying these things, but false teachings like yours help no-one. I will pray for you fervently my brother, because I am sure you are a nice chap, and your zeal if properly applied could be really edifying.

I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

and even funnier, the Church in heaven is asking God how long until he executes judgement on their persecutors!

I kind of pity you Ahwatukee. But then I look at all the people who lap up your homespun balsa theologies, and shake my head in despair. Why do they lap them up? Because they, even if you are entirely autodidactic, are not and have imbibed dispensationalism, and your skewed misinterpretations chime a deep chord in them.

I take no pleasure in saying these things, but false teachings like yours help no-one

.

You are one nasty individual are't you.

You can not challenge him nor I scripturally, therefore you attack his character and mock us for what we defend.

You and others have hijacked this thread with historicist extra biblical rants and spiritualize things into oblivion,then accuse us of what??? Darby,margaret,1800's blah,blah blah.

Pure garbage.

If you can not defend your deal with integrity push away from the keyboard.
Face it your deal ABSOLUTELY needs the FALSE NARRITIVE THAT most all of you anti-pretribs bring. And it is your charachter that "shines" in that false narrative. You have been told over and over why we do not make the grand canyon leaps with you historicists,and you can not ,for some bizarre reason defend your deal without the goofy darby,lahaye lies,just pure lies,that you NEED to inflate your deal.

so you are a self-taught dispensationalist, none of which undermines Tanakh's words,
which have great relevance

Here you give you give him a pass from your false judgment that you accuse him of,only to say in the next breath that he is in some "tractor beam" pulling him into "dispensationalism"
And let me guess,that would be darby,lahaye,blah,blah,blah

 

[KJV1611]

.

You are one nasty individual are't you.

You can not challenge him nor I scripturally, therefore you attack his character and mock us for what we defend.

You and others have hijacked this thread with historicist extra biblical rants and spiritualize things into oblivion,then accuse us of what??? Darby,margaret,1800's blah,blah blah.

Pure garbage.

If you can not defend your deal with integrity push away from the keyboard.
Face it your deal ABSOLUTELY needs the FALSE NARRITIVE THAT most all of you anti-pretribs bring. And it is your charachter that "shines" in that false narrative. You have been told over and over why we do not make the grand canyon leaps with you historicists,and you can not ,for some bizarre reason defend your deal without the goofy darby,lahaye lies,just pure lies,that you NEED to inflate your deal.




Here you give you give him a pass from your false judgment that you accuse him of,only to say in the next breath that he is in some "tractor beam" pulling him into "dispensationalism"
And let me guess,that would be darby,lahaye,blah,blah,blah

Original thread topic:

The Rapture

I just started to study the rapture and the tribulation few days ago. I came across what every Christian is debating about. I alone believe in the mid tribulation rapture. I just want to get your view on this if you are pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rapture believer. THANKS AND GOD BLESS​

The discussion is right on topic, we are giving our view of when the tribulation happened.... the rapture is post-trib.

 

[heartofdavid]

I'm not going futurist lol. I see the king of fierce countenance understanding DARK SENTENCES as Jesus uttering things kept secret from the foundation of the world and then getting angry with the wicked Jews.

So what is the little horn in chapter 7 that comes out of the 4th beast?

The RCC..........

Rcc with ANOTHER DIFFERENT little horn?

yes...........

Ironically the catholic websites sound the same as you guys. Go to one of them and find their rants on "end times"
They use the exact same talking points that all anti-pretribs use.

They,the rcc burned heretics like myself for disagreeing with them.

So,most pretrib writings are erased from mankind. As are the defenders. Burned and tortured by a spirit.

Red flags? red flags for you anti pretrib false narrative promoters???
Nah.

 

[heartofdavid]

Original thread topic:



The discussion is right on topic, we are giving our view of when the tribulation happened.... the rapture is post-trib.

Oh,there it is.

You have a rapture verse declaring such a view.????

one verse maybe????

 

[heartofdavid]

let me guess,you guys think you have 2 verses right?

 

[KJV1611]

Oh,there it is.

You have a rapture verse declaring such a view.????

one verse maybe????

Great tribulation:

Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Rapture:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[heartofdavid]

Great tribulation:

Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Rapture:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You have not shown a post trib rapture. Just a rapture.

(we both believe he returns post trib)

So,we still have nothing showing a post trib rapture.

 

[heartofdavid]

Here is an excerpt from margarets dream;

I said, Now shall the people of God have to do with realities - now shall the glorious mystery of God in our nature be known - now shall it be known what it is for man to be glorified. I felt that the revelation of Jesus Christ had yet to be opened up - it is not knowledge about God that it contains, but it is an entering into God - I saw that there was a glorious breaking in of God to be. I felt as Elijah, surrounded with chariots of fire. I saw as it were, the spiritual temple reared, and the Head Stone brought forth with shoutings of grace, grace, unto it. It was a glorious light above the brightness of the sun that shone round about me. I felt that those who were filled with the Spirit could see spiritual things, and feel walking in the midst of them, while those who had not the Spirit could see nothing - so that two shall be in one bed, the one taken and the other left, because the one has the light of God within while the other cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. I saw the people of God in an awfully dangerous situation, surrounded by nets and entanglements, about to be tried, and many about to be deceived and fall. Now will THE WICKED be revealed, with all power and signs and lying wonders, so that if it were possible the very elect will be deceived - This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus; but Oh it will be a fiery trial. Every soul will be shaken to the very centre. The enemy will try to shake in every thing we have believed - but the trial of real faith will be found to honour and praise and glory. Nothing but what is of God will stand. The stony-ground hearers will be made manifest - the love of many will wax cold.
Margaret MacDonald's Dream/Vision


Clearly she was post trib.

You guys are so busted,because you don't check your teachers out.

 

[VCO]

Interesting that you guys spiritualize away so cunningly the flying scorpions,the fiery hailstones and the mark of the beast,and insist satan is bound.

but concerning the AOD.....now that really happened huh?

And AMAZINGLY they are wrong in all cases.

 

[KJV1611]

You have not shown a post trib rapture. Just a rapture.

(we both believe he returns post trib)

So,we still have nothing showing a post trib rapture.

The difference between you and I is that I believe every word of God is right. Peter said this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. He didn't say "But I'm only talking about the pouring out the spirit part". Dispensationalist add that in.

Acts 2:14-21 KJV
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: [15] For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. [16] But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; [17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: [18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: [19] And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: [20] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: [21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[garee]

I don't quite understand what you meant there. Are you saying from Christ to AD 70 was a time of first century reformation?

Thanks for your patience my writing skills suffer. The time of the reformation brought in the last days that we are still in.

Its the same thousand years as a metephor used in the parable found in Revelation 20. It will last until the last day.