Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull said:
Think word usage,

I am the vine

YOU are the branches

If THEY do not abide he is cast out (as apposed to I or YOU)

He did not say if you do not abide in me, You will be cut off and cast into the fire, He said if THEY....
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interesting thought...where are you going with this?

John 15.6-NASB

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

John 15.6-NLT
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.

John 15.6-KJV
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

John 15.6-AMP
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown out like a [broken off] branch, and withers and dies; and they gather such branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
 
Meggido said:
and you just described working for it on your own terms....
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Yes sir

i had to learn just to "do" and stop letting my left hand know what my right hand is doing
I kept looking and looking st myself and began to worry too much about what I should or shouldn't do instead of just understanding HE will our in my path what I should or shouldn't do

and I should have learned by biwbhie to make a right judgement between what is the work wrought of the kingdom of light from the work wrought of the wrong kingdom
 
Meggido said:
interesting thought...where are you going with this?

John 15.6-NASB

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

John 15.6-NLT
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.

John 15.6-KJV
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

John 15.6-AMP
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown out like a [broken off] branch, and withers and dies; and they gather such branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
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follow along

[SUP]5 [/SUP]“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will[SUP][b][/SUP] ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

I have also heard it said that Jesus is speaking about the bema seat judgment, where our works are tried, If our reward (which was gained by producing fruit) remains we have reward, If it does not (because we produced o fruit) it is burned, and we suffer lose, Yet he himself will be saved as through fire.

I see both of those (us vs them and BEMA seat reward) as very plausible interpretations.


 
eternally-gratefull said:
follow along

[SUP]5 [/SUP]“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will[SUP][b][/SUP] ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

I have also heard it said that Jesus is speaking about the bema seat judgment, where our works are tried, If our reward (which was gained by producing fruit) remains we have reward, If it does not (because we produced o fruit) it is burned, and we suffer lose, Yet he himself will be saved as through fire.

I see both of those (us vs them and BEMA seat reward) as very plausible interpretations.


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who is the THEM, EG?
 
Meggido said:
The verses preceding the branch being removed talks about the branch abiding, and getting what you described, not their fruit/works....John 15.8 says bearing fruit proves you to be a disciple to Father....

John 15 says a branch that does not abide and without fruit/works is cast away and burned, not a branch that has works/fruits and those get burned away....

Works are tested by fire, but a branch that has no works is cast way and dried and burned....

I see a big difference here....
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no works, cast away, Interesting, Mind if I ask how you came up with no works? since that would mean a dead faith.
 
I grew up sir

its why I pointed you to 1 Corinthians 4
its why Paul stopped judging himself and just did what GOD had prepared in advance (understanding GOD has prepared them in advance) what we should walk in
 
dcontroversal said:
I know and a good point to ponder about that tree.....On occasion I have taken a bush or tree that is alive yet supporting dead and or dying branches....I then PRUNE the branches just like the "sucker" vines on tomato plants to get them to produce bigger and better fruit.....to say John 15 speaks of losing salvation is a stretch in my mind....every man's work will be tried by fire...some, yea many saved will have works of wood, hay and stubble that will be burnt to a crisp yet they themselves will still be saved.....
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yes, he also lifts them up off the ground, where they are getting choked..
 
eternally-gratefull said:
The children of Isreal The natural branches, and anyone really, who never became a YOU..
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The Bible says all of Israel will be saved, right? [Romans 11.26]Since this is true, what are you saying? That the natural branches are the ones that died in the wilderness and did not enter into the promised land?
 
Meggido said:
interesting thought...where are you going with this?

John 15.6-NASB

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

John 15.6-NLT
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.

John 15.6-KJV
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

John 15.6-AMP
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown out like a [broken off] branch, and withers and dies; and they gather such branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
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Where are you going with this TRUTH

If you had understood it, you would have understood that when darkness comes those who held to THIS TESTIMONY really didn't "do" anything active. Not according to their power and might

and yet still did ( not love their lives even to the death) the works which will proceed
 
miknik5 said:
I grew up sir

its why I pointed you to 1 Corinthians 4
its why Paul stopped judging himself and just did what GOD had prepared in advance (understanding GOD has prepared them in advance) what we should walk in
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I looked hard at what you showed me and cannot see that it says what you seem to be saying...I found not a shred of Paul talking about his unknown sins in any part of 1 Cor 4...maybe I misunderstood you....
 
Some of the "wise" will stumble so as to be made pure for the time of the end

I will not profess myself
But i took a big fall and beating for the very purpose of opening my mouth
 
miknik5 said:
Where are you going with this TRUTH

If you had understood it, you would have understood that when darkness comes those who held to THIS TESTIMONY really didn't "do" anything active. Not according to their power and might

and yet still did ( not love their lives even to the death) the works which will proceed
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I understand the whole passage just fine....I guess disciples are not made how Jesus commanded us to make them, they are just passively made by Casper the friendly Holy Spirit...
 
It's entirely possible.. Here's an example: a person who has a phobia of going outside and being among crowds of people. It's so bad to the point where they refuse to even come out of their room, and just sleep the day away in order not to have to encounter anyone.. Or a quadriplegic with no arms or legs, who is so bitter to the point that they just chase off all contact with other humans.

I'm talking about ones so caught up in fear and bitterness that they can't even bring forth any good works.. Will God judge them for not doing good works??


eternally-gratefull said:
Is this even possible? Even the man on the cross showed his faith was real By doing the work of God and praising his savior.
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Meggido said:
I looked hard at what you showed me and cannot see that it says what you seem to be saying...I found not a shred of Paul talking about his unknown sins in any part of 1 Cor 4...maybe I misunderstood you....
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He didnt
he said he would not justify himself but this did not make him innocent

just like I told you
we have no understanding of our hidden faults
but let me tell you, those HE loves HE does discipline so that they will bear impartial unbiased fruit in all seasons
whether rain or sunshine
whether in seasons of suffering or in times of plenty

And if they aren't disciplined they are Illegitimate children

Review 1 Corinthians 4...again
 
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Meggido said:
The Bible says all of Israel will be saved, right? [Romans 11.26]Since this is true, what are you saying? That the natural branches are the ones that died in the wilderness and did not enter into the promised land?
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Not sure what you mean here,, Yes All Isreal will be saved at a future date,

But many have not abided in the vine from day one, They were cut off from among Gods people.

A natural branch is a Child of Israel, An unnatural branch is a gentile.. Saved or unsaved.

I am not saying any of this is true, just one possibility, I actually just thought about it when I went to get context after you posted the one verse..

Along with the bema seat judgment either of them are possibilities

Losing salvation, I do not see that as a possibility.

the ones who died in the wilderness, Think of them as non believers who infiltrate our churches, and are blessed by association with Gods children, Yet never produce fruit, Never show any signs of being born again, and end up dieing having missed the promise. because they did not believe (have true saving faith)
 
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Meggido said:
I understand the whole passage just fine....I guess disciples are not made how Jesus commanded us to make them, they are just passively made by Casper the friendly Holy Spirit...
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Pick up your cross and follow HIM

Is sufficient

those who love their lives (physical lives with all it's well being and comforts) will lose it
and those who lose their lives (physical lives with all its well being and comforts) for HIM and the GOSPEL will find it and keep it to Eternal Life
 
blue_ladybug said:
It's entirely possible.. Here's an example: a person who has a phobia of going outside and being among crowds of people. It's so bad to the point where they refuse to even come out of their room, and just sleep the day away in order not to have to encounter anyone.. Or a quadriplegic with no arms or legs, who is so bitter to the point that they just chase off all contact with other humans.

I'm talking about ones so caught up in fear and bitterness that they can't even bring forth any good works.. Will God judge them for not doing good works??
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I do not think a child of God can go and do no good works. Who can endure the chastening of God, They either had to have done works in the past. ad due to circumstances, have now stopped for whatever reason, Which will start Gods chastening, Or I would wonder if they were saved at all..
 
eternally-gratefull said:

Not sure what you mean here,, Yes All Isreal will be saved at a future date,

But many have not abided in the vine from day one, They were cut off from among Gods people.

A natural branch is a Child of Israel, An unnatural branch is a gentile.. Saved or unsaved.

I am not saying any of this is true, just one possibility, I actually just thought about it when I went to get context after you posted the one verse..

Along with the bema seat judgment either of them are possibilities

Losing salvation, I do not see that as a possibility.

the ones who died in the wilderness, Think of them as non believers who infiltrate our churches, and are blessed by association with Gods children, Yet never produce fruit, Never show any signs of being born again, and end up dieing having missed the promise. because they did not believe (have true saving faith)
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Ok, good convo here, because I have heard the children of Israel not abiding thing and it is wrong and has it's roots in replacement theology<<<<no pun intended

BEMA I can get behind..anyway, thanks for the thoughts...have a great day
 
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