The Rapture

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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How was the abomination of desolation not then? This I want to hear! No spiritualizing needed. Where does it say it takes place in conjuction with the end of the world?
There are many prophetic events, that in order to gain an understanding of when they will take place, requires the cross-referencing and comparing of scripture, such as the timing of the gathering of the church. The event of the abomination is one of those events.

In Matt.24:15, Jesus quotes Dan.9:27 saying "So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

Therefore, when Jesus says "So when you see standing" He is referring to this event as something that is yet to take place. From the time that Jesus spoke this until the destruction of the temple some 38 years later, there was not seven year covenant established with Israel by that ruler and no abomination set up in the temple and therefore must still be future. Since it is the word of God, it must then take place. The only fulfillment that you will find is a forced one by the preterists in order to support their beliefs. But the fact remains that this even has yet to take place. And since the temple destroyed and the setting up of the abomination requires a temple and sacrifices, then there must be a coming temple. This is supported by the fact that Israel has got the plans for the rebuilding of the temple already to go, with all of the furniture, articles of the temple, the priests garments, etc. This all fits in with the fulfillment of that coming antichrist and the fulfillment of that last seven years, with the setting up of the abomination.

The bottom line here is that there has been no fulfillment of the prophecy in Daniel which Jesus also quoted and therefore it must still be future. This all has to do with the events which will take place in conjunction with the end of the age. Below is Daniels prophecy regarding that last seven years:

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

The part of the verse highlighted in red "until the end that is decreed is poured out on him" is in reference to the fate of that ruler/antichrist who sets up the abomination and according to 2 Thes.2 who stands in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be God.

The end that is decreed is referring to at the end of the last 3 1/2 years Jesus returns where at that time, the beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. The end that is decreed upon him is the same thing that Paull was speaking of regarding that man of lawlessness/anitchirst, when he said, "And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

The fact that the antichrist is overthrown by Christ's return directly links the seven years and the setting up of the abomination with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. It is the beast being thrown into the lake of fire alive that Paul is referring to when he says that the Lord Jesus will destroy him by the splendor of his coming.

So many questions. No evidence of 70 weeks of Daniel spread to three parts anywhere, you just spiritualized it in there(Truth is everyone does this no matter what position they hold, it is ok).
That's not spiritualization. That's God deferring that part of the prophecy for a later time in conjunction with the end of the age. Spiritualization would take away the abomination as being literal and finding some symbolic meaning for it and that entire event. And speaking of God deferring prophecy, He has done it before. As proof of this, compare Luke 4:16-19 with Isa.61:1-2

Isaiah 61:1-2
"The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor and the day of vengeance of our God,

Luke 4:16-19
" He stood up to read, and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”



Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down.

If you will notice, when Jesus read the prophecy of Isaiah, he left of "and the day of vengeance of our God." He did this because that part of the prophecy had not yet taken place and in fact has still not taken place. He was referring to the time of God's wrath, the time of vengeance that is still to come regarding Israel's time of trouble and the trouble that the entire earth will experience via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.


Did you know that Jews consider 70 weeks fulfilled?

You mean those who didn't even recognize Jesus as Messiah when He came and who still don't recognize him has Messiah? The Jews don't understand that the last seven years has not yet been completed. They don't understand what is coming. If they did, they would not be ready to build their temple and they would not agree to the seven year agreement knowing that the man of lawlessness was going to break it 3 1/2 years later. If they understood Dan 9:24-27, they would have known from the prophecy that Jesus was the Messiah appearing right on time with the prophecy.
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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In the dispensationalist view has God gathered the Jews back together in the land WITHOUT repentance? Is this biblical?
For those who were written in the Book of Life before the Earth was formed, it would be to HEAR THE MESSAGE OF THE TWO WITNESSES, becoming BORN AGAIN. FOR THE REST, He is doing it because HE SAID HE WOULD, and GOD DOES EVERYTHING HE SAYS HE WILL DO. You can look up the verses.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Because the Messiah was "cut off", the offer of the Kingdom of Heaven was turned down by national Israel, hence the delay, hence the predominantly gentile Church age that we are in today. The church age could go on for another 1000 years, time doesn't really matter. Romans 11:25 is a good place for anyone to begin to understand.
Or the Trumpet and the SHOUT could come before I finish typing this.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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For those who were written in the Book of Life before the Earth was formed, it would be to HEAR THE MESSAGE OF THE TWO WITNESSES, becoming BORN AGAIN. FOR THE REST, He is doing it because HE SAID HE WOULD, and GOD DOES EVERYTHING HE SAYS HE WILL DO. You can look up the verses.
That's not even remotely close to answering the question I asked. I asked did God bring those wicked Jews in Israel right now back into the land without REPENTANCE?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Unbelieving in what exactly? Israel has, as far as God is concerned, been in unbelief for at least 2000 years, whether you can describe them as religious or not. Jewish unbelief is plastered all throughout the New Testament.
BUT HE ALWAYS HAS A FAITHFUL REMNANT OF ISRAEL AT ALL TIMES. THE 144,000 WILL BE THE LAST FAITHFUL REMNANT OF MORTAL JEWS, BEFORE THE SECOND COMING.

P.S. I like the Special Forces shoulder patch.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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To all, what is the purpose of the 70 weeks?
Daniel 9:24)
Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
1)to finish transgression,
2)and to make an end of sins,
3)and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
4)and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
5)and to seal up vision and prophecy,
6)and to anoint the most holy.

For those who say the 70th week was fulfilled in 70AD:
1) is sin "finished"? No.
2) have people stopped sinning? No
3) has reconciliation been made? Arguable.
4) is everlasting righteousness here? No.
5) is prophesy sealed? depends on interpretation.
6) Is Christ king now? If you're an amill preterist, yes. Otherwise, no. The kingdom is not here yet.
 
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1) is sin "finished"? No.
2) have people stopped sinning? No
Hebrews 9:26 KJV
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
 
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we're gone before he shows up. Gone baby Gone. deal with it doubters. :cool:
2 Thessalonians 2:3 KJV
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Hebrews 9:26 KJV
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
The price has been paid, and victory is assured, but have you stopped sinning yet?
 
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3) has reconciliation been made? Arguable.
Colossians 1:20 KJV
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say , whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
 
S

Sully

Guest
2 Thessalonians 2:3 KJV
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
We're talking about sequence right? the falling away is/has been happening for years. Vatican 2, TBN, church down the street with a building plan....I miss Yet.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Are you suggesting the abomination would be someone beheaded in the temple?
To be honest, the fact that there even IS a temple is an abomination to the sacrifice of Christ in itself, no beheadings needed. Going back to the Old Covenant animal sacrifices is certainly abominable. Jesus died once and for all.
No it is NOT abominable, when it is the 70th WEEK of Daniel. THE LAST COVENANT SHALL BE FIRST, and THE FIRST COVENANT SHALL BE THE LAST TO FINISH.

Someone, how about the HIGH DEGREE of probability that the Antichrist after HE sets up HIS THRONE in the Holy of Holies, orders all the PRIESTS to be beheaded in full view of everyone to start with, followed everyone else who Refuses to bow to him as GOD.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (NRSV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]As to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we beg you, brothers and sisters,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one destined for destruction.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, declaring himself to be God.
{LIVE ON CNN & all the other CABLE TV NEWS CHANNELS.}
 
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4) is everlasting righteousness here? No.
Romans 3:22 KJV
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
 
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We're talking about sequence right? the falling away is/has been happening for years. Vatican 2, TBN, church down the street with a building plan....I miss Yet.
Has the man of sin been revealed?
 
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5) is prophesy sealed? depends on interpretation.
Luke 16:16 KJV
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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Amazing. You just discredited majority of Christianity of their salvation because of a differing belief regarding end times. You have absolutely no idea how new and foreign this pre-trib rapture thing is do you? Step out of the bubble.
You make me smile.....for a while at least......You argue about the Rapture but the problem is the Eschatology difference.... Regardless upon which type preterist you are; the doctrine you follow still pokes a BIG finger in God's eyes . The other Bigger problem you and other preterist have is the calling God out on his promise to Abram. Well you and the others will more than likely get your wish. Just in case you forgot about that Covenant which is still in effect, here it is again.

Genesis 12:1-3..."12 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

As far as the preterist doctrine goes---Antisemitism is it primary subject. Appears to me the preterist are occupying the same silent pulpits as those that happened to be in WWII. SO SAD!

AS far as your salvation goes.... That is between you and God ! Good Luck.
 
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Sully

Guest
Has the man of sin been revealed?
Not to me. But I am not particularly interested. I think the AC will rise after an intense trigger event. Wonder what that might be...