A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

[graceNpeace]

The splitting of the law into the so-called "law of God" (ten commandments) and "law of Moses" (the rest of the law) is false!

However it is a crucial part of a false theology to try and re-impose the law in the form of ten commandments and especially the Sabbath on believers.
These individuals do not believe in salvation by grace through faith, despite their hollow bleatings to the contrary, because they always betray their true position by insisting that those who do not observe the Sabbath are in opposition to "God's law" and therefore are hell-bound.

When the detail of their interpretation of the word of God is examined it is just a litany of faulty exegesis and hermeneutics.
With every detail they provide as to why they believe the way they do more examples come to light.

I am working on a detailed refutation of this silly hermeneutic - in the meantime I would say to any who are in danger of being seduced by this law-keeping, Sabbath-observing parody stick with salvation by grace through faith!

 

[KJV1611]

Here's all you need to refute law keeping.

1 Corinthians: 6. 12. All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. - Bible Offline

 

[beta]

Here's all you need to refute law keeping.

1 Corinthians: 6. 12. All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. - Bible Offline

Does 'refusing to keep the law mean you are 'lawless ? or are you saying 'whatever you do is ok with God ? seems to me to be one of Paul's conundrums...hard to understand.
Glad GOD is much clearer in His Commands....you either do or you don't.

 

[miknik5]

Does 'refusing to keep the law mean you are 'lawless ? or are you saying 'whatever you do is ok with God ? seems to me to be one of Paul's conundrums...hard to understand.
Glad GOD is much clearer in His Commands....you either do or you don't.

It's not hard to understand
but it is misinterpreted by those who think that grace is a free license to sin


Paul even spoke about those who incorrectly assumed and accused the BODY of doing this

 

[Rainrider]

As for the talk about being under the law, and so on. That is not what this tread is about. SO please take to one of the other treads you have hijacked. Thank you.

 

[miknik5]

As for the talk about being under the law, and so on. That is not what this tread is about. SO please take to one of the other treads you have hijacked. Thank you.

Who are you addressing?

 

[Rainrider]

As we move into chapter 5, it opens with the birth of Seth. In it we find that this is the first time a child is said to be in the likeness of Adam. There are many teachings on this. One is that Cain and Abel's blood line didn't make it through the flood, so they are given little mention. Another speaks to them looking the same. The last one is that Seth, was a holy men, like his dad. They hold this claim as Seth fathered both Enoch, and Noah.
Enoch as we know lived 365 years, then HaShem took him. It seems here that one should slow down and really look at why Enoch was taken, and never tasted death. All we are told is that he walked with HaShem. There are some that say he had a perfect heart. Some say he stay with in the Laws of HaShem always, Yet one other teaching is that He simply found faith, and salvation was given to him in this manner. My self I have a real hard with the first one, as Abraham was given salvation by his faith as well, yet he did die. What ever one follows, it is made clear that their was something different about Seth. Something that no other man had until Elisha.

Other than that, their really not much to this chapter. I am looking forward to it. As I know it should bring up a topic, that so little is know about, yet some wish to say much about that can't be backed by scripture. I will however do my best to cover what the Word tells us, and weed out some things that are never said in the Word. Until then.

 

[Blik]

Here's all you need to refute law keeping.

1 Corinthians: 6. 12. All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. - Bible Offline

You are reading scripture as if the people who wrote down what God revealed to them lived and understood the words just exactly as we do today. You aren't even going to the Hebrew that God used mostly, to the Greek that became popular, to the language you speak.

In our world today our writing is by people who know about the moral decline of the world, the medical advances, rock music, etc. In the world that 1 Corinthians was written the religious world of the Jews was in an uproar over religion, and law was at the center of the uproar. Gentiles had always had their own Gods, if they said what country they were from it also told what God they believed in. When a gentile accepted the true God they also accepted the Jewish nation and became a naturalized citizen. Then some gentiles wanted to worship the true God without becoming Jews--they were called Godfearers. So often these people would worship God for awhile, make friends of the Jews, and go back to pagan ways taking Jews with them. The head Rabbis decided to not let anyone worship with them unless they followed 18 rules of the Jews including circumcision. We don't have a copy of these rules, only writings telling of them. There was much discussion of these rules, and when Paul said they weren't from God it caused even more uproar in the religion of the day. It is often referred to as the Law of Moses or just The Law.

There was absolutely no one who had a thought that it included any of the guidance of the Lord on how to live. They all understood that such as the ten commandments were how the world was created for everyone.

In today's world you know the iron curtain was not make of iron. You know a computer mouse is not alive. In the same way they knew the law the gentiles did not have to obey was never written in stone.

 

[miknik5]

No. The Law is divided so that one can clearly see what parts belong to what peoples. When this study gets to that point, we will see just what laws are for who. It is the lack of thus simple understanding that prompted this study. Yet at the same time, to understand anything, one must have the full story, and not just the parts they like. Trust me, there are parts to this story I don't like. Yet they can't be removed just because I don't what they tell us, or what is going on in the minds of people. Of the 613 laws we will find in Torah, a vary small portion will apply to Gentiles. We will also find that some don't make it past the OT at all.

You are reading scripture as if the people who wrote down what God revealed to them lived and understood the words just exactly as we do today. You aren't even going to the Hebrew that God used mostly, to the Greek that became popular, to the language you speak.

In our world today our writing is by people who know about the moral decline of the world, the medical advances, rock music, etc. In the world that 1 Corinthians was written the religious world of the Jews was in an uproar over religion, and law was at the center of the uproar. Gentiles had always had their own Gods, if they said what country they were from it also told what God they believed in. When a gentile accepted the true God they also accepted the Jewish nation and became a naturalized citizen. Then some gentiles wanted to worship the true God without becoming Jews--they were called Godfearers. So often these people would worship God for awhile, make friends of the Jews, and go back to pagan ways taking Jews with them. The head Rabbis decided to not let anyone worship with them unless they followed 18 rules of the Jews including circumcision. We don't have a copy of these rules, only writings telling of them. There was much discussion of these rules, and when Paul said they weren't from God it caused even more uproar in the religion of the day. It is often referred to as the Law of Moses or just The Law.

There was absolutely no one who had a thought that it included any of the guidance of the Lord on how to live. They all understood that such as the ten commandments were how the world was created for everyone.

In today's world you know the iron curtain was not make of iron. You know a computer mouse is not alive. In the same way they knew the law the gentiles did not have to obey was never written in stone.

There's only ONE GOD who is the GOD and FATHER of all men and the promise which came to Abraham before he had even done any of the works required under the law was that he would be the father of many nations

the gentile had their own idea of god. Cause those who were supposed to be a light we're treating a foreigner as a foteigner

sinwthjng GOD commanded the Hebrews not to do

 

[miknik5]

Did we finish discussing chapter 4
the garment of skins which GOD provided to Adam and Eve was needed as a temporary perishable covering for their sin

 

[Rainrider]

As we move into chapter 5, it opens with the birth of Seth. In it we find that this is the first time a child is said to be in the likeness of Adam. There are many teachings on this. One is that Cain and Abel's blood line didn't make it through the flood, so they are given little mention. Another speaks to them looking the same. The last one is that Seth, was a holy men, like his dad. They hold this claim as Seth fathered both Enoch, and Noah.
Enoch as we know lived 365 years, then HaShem took him. It seems here that one should slow down and really look at why Enoch was taken, and never tasted death. All we are told is that he walked with HaShem. There are some that say he had a perfect heart. Some say he stay with in the Laws of HaShem always, Yet one other teaching is that He simply found faith, and salvation was given to him in this manner. My self I have a real hard with the first one, as Abraham was given salvation by his faith as well, yet he did die. What ever one follows, it is made clear that their was something different about Seth. Something that no other man had until Elisha.

Other than that, their really not much to this chapter. I am looking forward to it. As I know it should bring up a topic, that so little is know about, yet some wish to say much about that can't be backed by scripture. I will however do my best to cover what the Word tells us, and weed out some things that are never said in the Word. Until then.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

As we move into chapter 5, it opens with the birth of Seth. In it we find that this is the first time a child is said to be in the likeness of Adam. There are many teachings on this. One is that Cain and Abel's blood line didn't make it through the flood, so they are given little mention. Another speaks to them looking the same. The last one is that Seth, was a holy men, like his dad. They hold this claim as Seth fathered both Enoch, and Noah.
Enoch as we know lived 365 years, then HaShem took him. It seems here that one should slow down and really look at why Enoch was taken, and never tasted death. All we are told is that he walked with HaShem. There are some that say he had a perfect heart. Some say he stay with in the Laws of HaShem always, Yet one other teaching is that He simply found faith, and salvation was given to him in this manner. My self I have a real hard with the first one, as Abraham was given salvation by his faith as well, yet he did die. What ever one follows, it is made clear that their was something different about Seth. Something that no other man had until Elisha.

Other than that, their really not much to this chapter. I am looking forward to it. As I know it should bring up a topic, that so little is know about, yet some wish to say much about that can't be backed by scripture. I will however do my best to cover what the Word tells us, and weed out some things that are never said in the Word. Until then.

Usually when I see names my eyes lid up because we are being teached that nothing in the Bible is there without reason, especially names

Here is a study about the names in Genesis 5:

This is the meaning of the names in Genesis 5 (I have posted it before):

ADAM– “man” / “mankind” (Root word “Adamah” which means “earth”
SET – “Appointed” / “Appointed another seed”
ENOSH – “Mortal” / “Being Mortal” from the Hebrew Root word “Anash”
KENAN – “Sorrow”
MAHALALEL – Consists of two Hebrew words:“Mahalal” which means “Blessed’ / “Praised” and “EL” which means God. The name thus means: “Blessed/Praised of YHVH”
YERED – “Shall Descend” / “Shall come down”
CHANOCH (ENOCH) – means “teaching” “To teach/instruct people”
MATUSHELACH – consists of two Hebrew words:
Met – which means “death”
Shelach – which means “Shall bring forth” Put them together and it reads “Death shall bring forth”
LAMECH–“Despairing” / “Those in despair”
NOACH– “Comfort” / “Rest”

Together: “Man/Mankind appointed mortal sorrow. The blessed/praised of YHVH shall descend/come down and teach/instruct people that His death shall bring, those in despair, comfort/rest.

This is not the only time we see meaning in names. one more example is the genealogy of Cain:

Adam - Mankind
Cain – spear / fleshly action or fixity
Enoch – teaching / instruct
Irad – fugitive or sequester (isolate)
Mehujael – blotted out from God/ smitten from God
Methusael – man who is of God
Lamech – those in despair

Mankind in its fixity will teach/instruct to isolate yourself from YHWH like a fugitive and be blotted out from YHWH, and man who is from God will be in despair.

 

[miknik5]

Did we finish discussing chapter 4
the garment of skins which GOD provided to Adam and Eve was needed as a temporary perishable covering for their sin

Chapter 4 is very important

it needs to be discussed
in fact I thought you said you would be interested in hearing thoughts on the garment

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Did we finish discussing chapter 4
the garment of skins which GOD provided to Adam and Eve was needed as a temporary perishable covering for their sin

I think before looking at the skins it is also important to understand that God made the first (and the last ) blood sacrifice. If God did not sacrificed the animals for Adam and Eve they would have died in Eden the day they sinned (grace ). We can see through the Bible that God's character (Torah) does not change. He is the non changing One. We just need to seek it out.

God bless

 

[miknik5]

Sorry about that, life does go on even when we may wish it to stay away just a little longer.

Have any of you ever wondered what would have happen if Adam hadn't eat of the fruit? Don't get me wrong, it is clear that anything said on that would just what the person speaking thinks. So the best we can do is work with what we have. As the Word tells us, Adam and Eve both found shame in their nakedness. Though one must wonder, was it that, or was the shame they felt for their disobedience?

There is one thing that we need to look at here. As we read in 8-12, we find something that at first seems odd. HaShem is asking were they are, then ask how told them they were naked. So why was that?
Can it be that HaShem was giving them the opportunity to confess their sin to Him?
Or was it that He know they needed to, so that they would see the wrong in what they had done?

When we look at Adam, saying he was afraid, one can draw a parallel to Israel when HaShem spoke to them at Sinai. The people were scared, and told Moses to talk to HaShem, they thought they would die if HaShem spoke to them directly. Ex. 19.
Gen 3:21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

This passage has been the focus of some debate. As in all debates their are 2 sides. Here one side thinks, (as it can not be proven) that this was the first Day of Atonement. They say that the skins were from a goat, yet that is not in the Word, and I have looked in some 25 translations to see.
On the other side, they stay with in the Word, and teach simply that it was the skins of an unknown animal. Holding to the idea that none of the feast were in place at this time. It would be interesting to hear what some of you may think.
As for me, I do think that the sacrificial system did start here. That HaShem took this time to show Adam what needed to be done, and told him way. If He hadn't, then what we find chapter 4 may lead to things best left unsaid, or even thought.
I am looking foreword to hearing your thoughts on this one. I know I didn't use much for out side scripture, that is mainly due the lack of any that hold any further elaboration on this topic.

Correction


chapter 3

I believe we should not pass over the garment so quickly as it is a picture of CHRIST's COVERING which GOD would provide

GOD knew not only mankind/Adam/our fall...HE more importantly knew the victory in HIS SON

HE sent mankind/Adam/us from HIS PRESENCE covered over in a temporal covering knowing full that HE would pursue us with the Only GARMENT needed...That of HIS SON

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Chapter 4 is very important

it needs to be discussed
in fact I thought you said you would be interested in hearing thoughts on the garment

Dear Miknik

Please post your study on the garments. Sometimes our study of the Bible will lead us on different paths because you might dig deeper into something Rainrider is not interested in or never considered.

If you feel he didn't dig deep enough into a subject, go ahead. When we do Bible study it is important to bring what God teach us to the table to be discussed by fellow followers in Christ .

 

[miknik5]

I think before looking at the skins it is also important to understand that God made the first (and the last ) blood sacrifice. If God did not sacrificed the animals for Adam and Eve they would have died in Eden the day they sinned (grace ). We can see through the Bible that God's character (Torah) does not change. He is the non changing One. We just need to seek it out.

God bless

He provided a temporal covering until THE ETERNAL COVERING would come

but yes it is important to understand that GOD provided the sacrifice

just as Abraham prophecied

 

[miknik5]

Dear Miknik

Please post your study on the garments. Sometimes our study of the Bible will lead us on different paths because you might dig deeper into something Rainrider is not interested in or never considered.

If you feel he didn't dig deep enough into a subject, go ahead. When we do Bible study it is important to bring what God teach us to the table to be discussed by fellow followers in Christ .

Dear Gandalf, the owner of this thread was interested in hearing some thoughts on the garment just as his post clearly stated

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Dear Gandalf, the owner of this thread was interested in hearing some thoughts on the garment just as his post clearly stated

Ok friend, I can't wait to read your study on the garments

 

[miknik5]

Can anyone explain according to OT practices, and the understanding of the HOLINESS of GOD , what would have happened if the high priests had entered into the holy of Holies without the right garments?