The Rapture

[VCO]

It's more like two invitations to the feast. These are two repeating stories following the same plot. God offers redemption to the Jews. They turn it down. They are judged and punished accordingly. Then God offered redemption to the world. The world turns it down. The world will be judged and punished accordingly.

Now, we paint with a wide brush when we start using names and terms. The Jews were being held to account for turning away their Bridegroom. But among the Jews, there were some individuals who were faithful and righteous with God. Just like now, the world is rejecting it's Bridegroom - but among the world, there are those of us who are faithful and righteous with God. Both groups saw God's judgment fall upon their world, but each group saw/will see themselves saved from God's wrath.

The Marriage Supper of the Lamb occurs in the eternal realm. It's a whole 'nother treatise, but it's my understanding that God in the eternal can access any point in time, at any point in 'time'. And that even tho on this earth we all die at different times, we all arrive in heaven at the same time. Which in heaven is that point when Christ is calling His own to the feast prior to His return.

The Bridegroom came for His chosen bride, and she left Him at the altar. So then the Groom offered to take the world as his Bride, and the world is leaving Him at the altar. But among them all, there are faithful servants whom He will gather from the beginning of time. I fully expect to meet and greet with lots of Old Testament saints at the Wedding Supper, in the eternal realm.

Can't wait to meet and greet with you too





If that makes any sense

In a Jewish Wedding, there are Seven Feasts, one every evening, the Seventh one is called the Marriage Supper.


http://www.wildolive.co.uk/weddings.htm

 

[Bogadile]

It is not my fault that you failed to explain that you use a different definition for "historic premillennialism" than most of us.

Then most of you do not know history. Historic premillennialism is that what was taught historically in the Church hence the name. See nobody has ever believed dispensationalism or even heard of it until recently. That is why it does not qualify as historic. This distinction is widely known so your accusation of me failing to explain it just proved your own ignorance on this basic distinction that all scholars and even wikipedia admits between historic and dispensational premillennialism.

Historic premillennialism : Taught by early church (Irenaeus and many others, pretty plain in the bible too if read literally). Post-trib, one people of God those in Christ.

diSpENSATIONAL premillennialism : Taught by nobody until recently (No one taught two separate groups Israel and Church in church history) This is the mainstream American doctrine, as it shows from your avatar. Pre-trib many people of God one earthly one heavenly, two kingdoms..

 

[VCO]

Then most of you do not know history. Historic premillennialism is that what was taught historically in the Church hence the name. See nobody has ever believed dispensationalism or even heard of it until recently. That is why it does not qualify as historic. This distinction is widely known so your accusation of me failing to explain it just proved your own ignorance on this basic distinction that all scholars and even wikipedia admits between historic and dispensational premillennialism.

Historic premillennialism : Taught by early church (Irenaeus and many others, pretty plain in the bible too if read literally). Post-trib, one people of God those in Christ.

diSpENSATIONAL premillennialism : Taught by nobody until recently (No one taught two separate groups Israel and Church in church history) This is the mainstream American doctrine, as it shows from your avatar. Pre-trib many people of God one earthly one heavenly, two kingdoms..

Now that is strange, because I have been trying to tell everyone, that Old Testament Saints, New Testament Saints, and Tribulation Saints, are all part of the BRIDE of CHRIST.

 

[VCO]

Have you even READ the verse that YOU SAID was the transfiguration. Please read the verse below. That IS NOT the transfiguration.

Matthew 16:27-28 KJV
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

[28] Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

AND GUESS WHAT, NO MAN CAN BE SAVED BY HIS WORKS, THUS SALVATION IS NOT A REWARD.

Titus 3:5 (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Titus 3:7 (ASV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 3:20 (ASV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.

 

[heartofdavid]

Then most of you do not know history. Historic premillennialism is that what was taught historically in the Church hence the name. See nobody has ever believed dispensationalism or even heard of it until recently. That is why it does not qualify as historic. This distinction is widely known so your accusation of me failing to explain it just proved your own ignorance on this basic distinction that all scholars and even wikipedia admits between historic and dispensational premillennialism.

Historic premillennialism : Taught by early church (Irenaeus and many others, pretty plain in the bible too if read literally). Post-trib, one people of God those in Christ.

diSpENSATIONAL premillennialism : Taught by nobody until recently (No one taught two separate groups Israel and Church in church history) This is the mainstream American doctrine, as it shows from your avatar. Pre-trib many people of God one earthly one heavenly, two kingdoms..

The question is 1) you seem to rely on others for your view,or to assure yourself since you believe like them,you are above error.

2) none of you historicists,to my knowledge,have ever even addressed to fact that those dead guys you are relying on never saw Israel restored as a nation.

You guys make statements like "Israel of the flesh", "Israel is done", and other statements trying to divert away from a billboard to the contrary in your front yard.

 

[PlainWord]

AHW,

Obviously you have not studied the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Not understanding the severity of these judgments is a common error.

Actually I have, a ton. You are thinking future and globally. This is why you can't figure this out. Think Israel and 1st century (as I've been telling you) and you will see fulfillment in each of these.

When has a third of the earth and trees ever been burned up?

Indeed. Rome had a scorched earth policy. They burned everything as they moved down from Galilee. They left some trees to make their embankments.

When has there been something like a huge mountain all ablaze hit in one of the oceans killing a third of the creatures in the sea and a third of the ships destroyed?

It doesn't say oceans, it says, "the sea" which is the Mediterranean Sea. "Mountain" represents kingdom. The cities of Joppa and Taricheae were situated on the coast of the Sea of Galilee. Upon the arrival of the Roman military, the Jewish rebels of these two cities retreated out to sea. There the rough waves and heavy winds at the coast of Joppa drowned many people. Their ships were also destroyed as they struck each other and the rocks along the coast. Many people fell into the water and according to Josephus were “dashed to pieces” against the rocks “insomuch that the sea was bloody a long way...

Josephus wrote about the second trump:

One might then see the lake all bloody, and full of dead bodies, for not one of them escaped. And a terrible stink, and a very sad sight there was on the following days over the country; for as for the shores, they were full of shipwrecks, and of dead bodies all swelled.”

Why am I wasting my time trying to explain this to you????

 

[heartofdavid]

According to Saucy, Justin Martyr's statements were "the capstone of a developing tendency in the church to appropriate to itself the attributes and prerogatives that formerly belonged to historical Israel."23 Saucy states:
With Justin's statement, the developing theology of replacement was complete. There was no longer any place for historical Israel in salvation history. The prophecies addressed to this people henceforth belonged to the church.24

Why did the early church fathers so quickly abandon the biblical distinction between Israel and the church? Saucy notes four factors. First was the developing antagonism between Judaism and early Christianity.25 The early strife revealed in the apostolic period (Acts 4:1ff; 5:17ff; 6:12ff; 9:1; 1 Thes. 2:14-16; Rev. 2:9) was "acerbated by the failure of Christians to support the Jewish revolt against the Roman authorities in AD 66-70, the Christians choosing instead to flee Jerusalem for the safety of Pella, across the Jordan in Decapolis." The schism was again deepened by the Jewish proclamation at the Council of Jamnia (AD 90) that all who departed from the standard Jewish faith were cursed.26
The second factor influencing the thinking of early believers in terms of how they viewed Israel was the two-fold destruction of Jerusalem.27 With the first destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 and the expulsion of Jews from Jerusalem as a result of the second Jewish revolt in AD 132-135, the early Christians began to see these defeats as evidence of not only God's displeasure on Judaism, but also God's vindication of Christianity. The early Christians thus abandoned any hope for the restoration of the nation of Israel.28

https://bible.org/article/theology-adrift-early-church-fathers-and-their-views-eschatology

 

[KJV1611]

The question is 1) you seem to rely on others for your view,or to assure yourself since you believe like them,you are above error.

2) none of you historicists,to my knowledge,have ever even addressed to fact that those dead guys you are relying on never saw Israel restored as a nation.

You guys make statements like "Israel of the flesh", "Israel is done", and other statements trying to divert away from a billboard to the contrary in your front yard.

You think that bunch of devil worshipping Jews in Israel right now are RESTORED? Unsaved Jews are enemies of the gospel.

 

[KJV1611]

AND GUESS WHAT, NO MAN CAN BE SAVED BY HIS WORKS, THUS SALVATION IS NOT A REWARD.

Titus 3:5 (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Titus 3:7 (ASV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 3:20 (ASV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.

I don't understand you point... I just posted bible verses lol. The bible is the one that said they were rewarded according to their works.

 

[KJV1611]

The question is 1) you seem to rely on others for your view,or to assure yourself since you believe like them,you are above error.

2) none of you historicists,to my knowledge,have ever even addressed to fact that those dead guys you are relying on never saw Israel restored as a nation.

You guys make statements like "Israel of the flesh", "Israel is done", and other statements trying to divert away from a billboard to the contrary in your front yard.

This is the ROOT of your flawed doctrine. The flesh Jews aren't special and never have been. Flesh Israel has NEVER BEEN God's chosen people and ALL flesh Israel have not and will not be saved. This is not a hard concept to see in the bible.

Romans 9:8 KJV
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[KJV1611]

Acts 10:34-35 KJV
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
[35] But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

God is no respecter of persons... That includes the Jews! In every nation, he that fears God and works righteousness are accepted by God. Bloodline means absolutely nothing.

 

[RickyZ]

I'm sorry brother but I have to disagree with you on this. I'm at the wedding feast right now and the menu is the body and blood of Christ. This is a tough subject to grasp and I will just agree to disagree.

I just have a hard time believing that this is as good as it gets. When I think of the boundless glory of God, no, the world of today is NOT it. One of us is in for a pleasant surprise, or the other a huge disappointment.

Bless you!

 

[heartofdavid]

Acts 10:34-35 KJV
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
[35] But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

God is no respecter of persons... That includes the Jews! In every nation, he that fears God and works righteousness are accepted by God. Bloodline means absolutely nothing.

luke 1;31 [FONT=&quot]And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Jesus[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot]32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.[/FONT]

 

[heartofdavid]

luke2;4 [FONT=&quot]And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David[/FONT]

 

[heartofdavid]

[h=1]Matthew 1King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

We even see three distinct DISPENSATIONS in this account.

HMMMM,interesting[/FONT]

 

[heartofdavid]

rom 11;20 [FONT=&quot]Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.[/FONT]

 

[heartofdavid]

OK,now that we KNOW the validity of dispensations,lineage,and the Jews cut off but will be grafted back in can we move on to the OP which is FUTURE RAPTURE OF THE BRIDE ?
(mat 25)

 

[J7]

I just have a hard time believing that this is as good as it gets. When I think of the boundless glory of God, no, the world of today is NOT it. One of us is in for a pleasant surprise, or the other a huge disappointment.

Bless you!

lol. Well put.

The Millennium - starring Jack Nicholson

 

[VCO]

You think that bunch of devil worshipping Jews in Israel right now are RESTORED? Unsaved Jews are enemies of the gospel.

I think the 144,000 are pretty much all there right now. Yes, I think we are that close.

But I also think, especially in these last Days, we Christians should be reaching out to Bless the People of ISRAEL.


I am sorry for you, that you do not have this verse in your heart.


Genesis 12:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

 

[J7]

oh dear VCO

That is the Church.

I suppose if you bless Israel the nation, it won't do any harm, as God may move to stamp out their terrorist activities.

Depends what you mean by bless really.

The proper blessing for Israel is ministry and support of ministry, as with any country really.