A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.
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No Brother. Not at all, but when I started with my journey of trying to dig deeper into the Hebrew you sometimes use sources from the internet that is borderline or even full on Kabbala.
We are definitely not Kabbala followers
but that is why I am grateful for guidance from our Pastor, he keeps us on the straight and narrow
We are definitely not Kabbala followers
but that is why I am grateful for guidance from our Pastor, he keeps us on the straight and narrow
No Brother. Not at all, but when I started with my journey of trying to dig deeper into the Hebrew you sometimes use sources from the internet that is borderline or even full on Kabbala.
We are definitely not Kabbala followers but that is why I am grateful for guidance from our Pastor, he keeps us on the straight and narrow
We are definitely not Kabbala followers
but that is why I am grateful for guidance from our Pastor, he keeps us on the straight and narrow
The 23rd Psalm says: The Lord is my shepherd. Are you saying that no, you will not be guided by a shepherd for that would be following law?
The Old Testament guides us but there is no scripture telling anyone that at any time they could be so perfect they do not need forgiveness.
In the 11th chapter of Acts we are told of the people of Berea being honorable because they checked everything the apostles of the "new" covenant had to say. If it disagreed with scripture (they had no new testament at that time) then it was not trustworthy. Now you seem to be saying that their God could not be trusted for their God was old, He had an old covenant. Are you CERTAIN that the old was wiped out because Christ died for our sins?
The Torah gives us the principles of God who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God is eternal, God is the I Am. We live in a world of time, we can change. God simply is, without time.
When the temple was destroyed and the Jews were exiled to Babylon they created rabbis. The High priest was no more and they were not told by God what to do so they decided on the rabbi. These were not God appointed, they were appointed by men but they all decided the rabbi should have the power to interpret scripture. What these men decided was accepted as the same as scripture and the Talmud came from these rulings. Christ said they are not scripture. People get them mixed up with the first five books of the bible, these are from God and they are scripture.
The Old Testament guides us but there is no scripture telling anyone that at any time they could be so perfect they do not need forgiveness.
In the 11th chapter of Acts we are told of the people of Berea being honorable because they checked everything the apostles of the "new" covenant had to say. If it disagreed with scripture (they had no new testament at that time) then it was not trustworthy. Now you seem to be saying that their God could not be trusted for their God was old, He had an old covenant. Are you CERTAIN that the old was wiped out because Christ died for our sins?
The Torah gives us the principles of God who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God is eternal, God is the I Am. We live in a world of time, we can change. God simply is, without time.
When the temple was destroyed and the Jews were exiled to Babylon they created rabbis. The High priest was no more and they were not told by God what to do so they decided on the rabbi. These were not God appointed, they were appointed by men but they all decided the rabbi should have the power to interpret scripture. What these men decided was accepted as the same as scripture and the Talmud came from these rulings. Christ said they are not scripture. People get them mixed up with the first five books of the bible, these are from God and they are scripture.
I know I am kind of slow getting around to responding to your post, sorry. I had to back up and lok at some things I got to thinking about, and wanted to know if they were in here. I seen this one, and then noticed I had not answered it.
You are right about your answer, yet that has been used as bate, in the past. One reason for my reply to her. I know I was wrong for my reaction, and said so much to her. Yet being right on that, (at lest in my mind) does not change the idea that one needs to really understand the OT. Also the way I see it, that would not be a valid argument for removing scripture from it's context. When I get this study done, I am thinking of doing one on Paul. Why just thinking? Well I already know that if I did open one, it would soon be over run by people that are so happy to push their ideas on others, that it would soon become so twisted, and removed from the intent of the Study, that it would turn out to be a lesson in futility.
I would like to say thank you for your reply, and your show of love for others. That is what we need a lot of in the body of Yeshua.
You are right about your answer, yet that has been used as bate, in the past. One reason for my reply to her. I know I was wrong for my reaction, and said so much to her. Yet being right on that, (at lest in my mind) does not change the idea that one needs to really understand the OT. Also the way I see it, that would not be a valid argument for removing scripture from it's context. When I get this study done, I am thinking of doing one on Paul. Why just thinking? Well I already know that if I did open one, it would soon be over run by people that are so happy to push their ideas on others, that it would soon become so twisted, and removed from the intent of the Study, that it would turn out to be a lesson in futility.
I would like to say thank you for your reply, and your show of love for others. That is what we need a lot of in the body of Yeshua.
As we move into Chapter 4, I wish to ask something of you all. Have you even faced a person that has used this chapter to try and say HaShem is not just? If they know the Word, this can well be done, when they are talking to someone that is not ready to face this kind of question. I wish to use this chapter to teach both sides of this, as it does come up, and has divided at lest one church here in town. There will be more teachings in this one chapter as well. So let get started.
This chapter opens with the birth of Cain and Able. At first glance some may say he was born after the expulsion from the garden. As the Word does not tell us the answer to that all one can do is think for them selves. As the answer holds no barring on Salvation, or any of the works of HaShem that follow, is there really reason to have an answer? If there is, then would not HaShem have told us?
When the sacrifice made in this chapter,( is where we find that some point to and say HaShem is not just),we see that Cains was rejected. Abel's on the other hand was not. At lest once this has been used to show that HaShem is not just, in that He rejected Cain's offering, when their was no ruling in place as to what was, and was not acceptable.
Some think this is the offering for Yom-Kippur. Yet Lev.chapter 4, does not indicate this. As Able would have brought the wrong offering as well.
Yet when one looks at a peace offering, we find that Able did bring the right offering for this, as seen in Lev. chapter 3. Cain on the other hand didn't. Although their are other forms of offerings that can be seen to fit both offerings. A Peace offering, and first fruits are the best fit. Yet as stated, we simply don't really know.
What we do know, is that HaShem is just, and that would lead one to search out the Word, to find why Cain's was rejected, one thing we can be sure of, HaShem didn't act out of malice. From that one must conclude that they both knew what was expected of them. Be it a mater of the heart, or bring the wrong offering. As we know, man can't judge matters of the heart, that is only in the hands of HaShem. Yet as 6&7 hits at the idea of it being a matter of the heart, both sides of this debate, it would seem, debate a thing that can not be shown.
11-15 shows an act of mercy. HaShem did not kill Cain, and even set a mark on him that everyone would know, not to kill him. Hens we find the second act of compassion by HaShem. I have always said that I see the Torah as HaShem's profile. In that we find who he is, and by His actions in the first 5 books, we may also find what he wants from us. As He has shown mercy here, as well, would it not stand to reason this is really wants us to show one another?
Hos 6:6
For I desire mercy and not sacrifice, And the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Mar 12:33 “And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
All that is left is one thing that seems to be asked a lot, when one wishes to show the Bible is telling the whole story. Where did Cains wife come from? Most will say, that Adam and Eve had more than just 3 kids, and they would be right. Yep be ready when you hear about Lilith. Who is Lilith? Some say that the reason Adam ate the fruit was that he had one other wife before Eve, that being Lilith. They teach that Lilith also ate the fruit, and Adam didn't. So Lilith was removed from the garden, and Adam got to stay. When it came around with Eve, Adam didn't want to stay in the Garden with out his wife, so he also ate.
This chapter opens with the birth of Cain and Able. At first glance some may say he was born after the expulsion from the garden. As the Word does not tell us the answer to that all one can do is think for them selves. As the answer holds no barring on Salvation, or any of the works of HaShem that follow, is there really reason to have an answer? If there is, then would not HaShem have told us?
When the sacrifice made in this chapter,( is where we find that some point to and say HaShem is not just),we see that Cains was rejected. Abel's on the other hand was not. At lest once this has been used to show that HaShem is not just, in that He rejected Cain's offering, when their was no ruling in place as to what was, and was not acceptable.
Some think this is the offering for Yom-Kippur. Yet Lev.chapter 4, does not indicate this. As Able would have brought the wrong offering as well.
Yet when one looks at a peace offering, we find that Able did bring the right offering for this, as seen in Lev. chapter 3. Cain on the other hand didn't. Although their are other forms of offerings that can be seen to fit both offerings. A Peace offering, and first fruits are the best fit. Yet as stated, we simply don't really know.
What we do know, is that HaShem is just, and that would lead one to search out the Word, to find why Cain's was rejected, one thing we can be sure of, HaShem didn't act out of malice. From that one must conclude that they both knew what was expected of them. Be it a mater of the heart, or bring the wrong offering. As we know, man can't judge matters of the heart, that is only in the hands of HaShem. Yet as 6&7 hits at the idea of it being a matter of the heart, both sides of this debate, it would seem, debate a thing that can not be shown.
11-15 shows an act of mercy. HaShem did not kill Cain, and even set a mark on him that everyone would know, not to kill him. Hens we find the second act of compassion by HaShem. I have always said that I see the Torah as HaShem's profile. In that we find who he is, and by His actions in the first 5 books, we may also find what he wants from us. As He has shown mercy here, as well, would it not stand to reason this is really wants us to show one another?
Hos 6:6
For I desire mercy and not sacrifice, And the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Mar 12:33 “And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
All that is left is one thing that seems to be asked a lot, when one wishes to show the Bible is telling the whole story. Where did Cains wife come from? Most will say, that Adam and Eve had more than just 3 kids, and they would be right. Yep be ready when you hear about Lilith. Who is Lilith? Some say that the reason Adam ate the fruit was that he had one other wife before Eve, that being Lilith. They teach that Lilith also ate the fruit, and Adam didn't. So Lilith was removed from the garden, and Adam got to stay. When it came around with Eve, Adam didn't want to stay in the Garden with out his wife, so he also ate.
This is like saying that Adam is Satan in the spirit world. that don't make sense because all who came across Cain did not know what that mark meant. The mark that was put upon him was a mark of vengeance that only God could know. That mark was recognized by his people. there are symbols that show a mark of vengeance, but don't know if it was God's mark
Ha ha I was with you until that last part
Lillith is nothing more than a fairytale
A good example of the stark difference between
What the Torah actually says
And the traditions of man collectively called Judaism
But let us not waste ourselves on such a fable
The parts before are actually decent points you bring to the table
Personally I believe that the Lord is still just
After all if such a sacrifice is a gift, He can like what He wants
And even though he did not approve of Cain's offering
I note that when Cain's countenance fell
That the Lord did not hate him, but gave words encouraging
And says that He will accept him if he does well
Yes, the Lord God is supremely just
And Cain was not punished for his sacrifice
But rather because he rose up and took his brother's life
And then, even then, the Lord didn't send him straight down to hell
But rather showed mercy to him
And He marked him that men would be able to tell
Lest any man that find him would do like him and kill
Lillith is nothing more than a fairytale
A good example of the stark difference between
What the Torah actually says
And the traditions of man collectively called Judaism
But let us not waste ourselves on such a fable
The parts before are actually decent points you bring to the table
Personally I believe that the Lord is still just
After all if such a sacrifice is a gift, He can like what He wants
And even though he did not approve of Cain's offering
I note that when Cain's countenance fell
That the Lord did not hate him, but gave words encouraging
And says that He will accept him if he does well
Yes, the Lord God is supremely just
And Cain was not punished for his sacrifice
But rather because he rose up and took his brother's life
And then, even then, the Lord didn't send him straight down to hell
But rather showed mercy to him
And He marked him that men would be able to tell
Lest any man that find him would do like him and kill
Yes Lilith is a fable. when teaching, it has been engrained in me that not everyone that reads what a person writes, knows all the facts. SO I added Lilith in hopes of letting them know it holds no truth in the Word. Sorry if I didn't make that part clear. I do however thank you for clearing it up.
I also like that you pointed out the words of encouragement as well. And Yes HaShem remains unchanging.
I also like that you pointed out the words of encouragement as well. And Yes HaShem remains unchanging.
Yes indeed I agree with you
I did not mean to come off as thinking you believed in Lillith
Indeed you are correct
When one does a study of Genesis
There's many that bring up the fables
Of tired and dead old heretics
Things like this are popular culture
So it is a little understandable why they're confused
All the more reason to read the Bible for yourself
As Paul said, "Study and show thyself approved"
You bring very points and a good topic overall!
When studying the Torah many get hung up on Leviticus
But really if you think about it
The foundation of Torah before the Law of Moses
It all starts in Genesis.
I did not mean to come off as thinking you believed in Lillith
Indeed you are correct
When one does a study of Genesis
There's many that bring up the fables
Of tired and dead old heretics
Things like this are popular culture
So it is a little understandable why they're confused
All the more reason to read the Bible for yourself
As Paul said, "Study and show thyself approved"
You bring very points and a good topic overall!
When studying the Torah many get hung up on Leviticus
But really if you think about it
The foundation of Torah before the Law of Moses
It all starts in Genesis.
I don't thikn that was implied at all. May I ask that you please explain that, so we may try and clear that up? I sure don't want anyone to think I said or implied any of that. Adam as best I know, has never been seen as Satan.
As for the mark placed on Cain, please read,
Gen 4:15 ¶And the LORD said to him, “Therefore, whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the LORD set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him.
If the mark was not know to man, then how would they not to kill him? It seems clear that this mark was known to man, and they knew what it meant as well.
As for the mark placed on Cain, please read,
Gen 4:15 ¶And the LORD said to him, “Therefore, whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the LORD set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him.
If the mark was not know to man, then how would they not to kill him? It seems clear that this mark was known to man, and they knew what it meant as well.
It did not say they would not kill him, but if they did kill him, his death would be avenged seven-fold. He was a fugitive , fugitives run from justice. a vagabond, vagabond is a wanderer. He was being hunted. Not from God because God knew where he was at all times. Men hunted him to kill him. He was the first murderer., and those that hunted him, hunted him for justice. His great grandson knew about the mark. He got wounded in a fight,killed the man, went back home to his two wives and told them what happened, His wound was a fatal wound, because he told them that if Cain was avenged sevenfold then he would be seventy fold. Which means someone killed Cain.