No, changing from red to blue to pink to green, etc, like Christmas lights.
Normally stars just look like white dots in the sky but sometimes they change color.
Earth is Flat and Stationary
- Thread starter FlatEarth17
- Start date
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No, changing from red to blue to pink to green, etc, like Christmas lights.
Normally stars just look like white dots in the sky but sometimes they change color.
G
GaryA
Guest
"Man!! Can I get on that list?? I need a good work-from-home job..."
sorry, funding cuts.
takes a lot of electricity to run the disco balls in Zen's sky. not cheap.
G
GaryA
Guest
Here's a good podcast on the flat earth conspiracy theory by Dr. Jason Lisle. I really don't see how anyone could hold this belief.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/youth-apologetics-training/id508635126?mt=2&i=1000374303478
I think this thread belongs in the conspiracy theory section along with the Illuminati/Jesuit stuff.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/youth-apologetics-training/id508635126?mt=2&i=1000374303478
I think this thread belongs in the conspiracy theory section along with the Illuminati/Jesuit stuff.
Gary, what i really know is that i can't trust much of what you say to be legitimate, well-informed or factual.
that's the sad truth of defining yourself by this nonsense.
now here's a totally unrelated graph i'm posting as though it proves some point:
You said "Explain the 3 uses of the word CIRCLE...........that jives with FLAT................"
I say "Explain the 3 uses of the word CIRCLE...........that jives with Round................"
G
GaryA
Guest
I mean --- since they have all of these blind-folded Americans to foot the bill...
( It's a JOKE posthuman! )
To me a circle from long ago in geometry class was a 2 dimensional line that had a radius and a Diameter.
Psalm 93:1
The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved
1 Samuel 2:8
He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.
The Copernican (Heliocentric) Model:
- The stars are immovable – their apparent daily motion is caused by the daily rotation of Earth
- Earth is moved in a sphere around the Sun, causing the apparent annual migration of the Sun. Earth has more than one motion
- Earth’s orbital motion around the Sun causes the seeming reverse in direction of the motions of the planets
https://www.universetoday.com/33113/heliocentric-model/
The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved
1 Samuel 2:8
He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.
The Copernican (Heliocentric) Model:
- The stars are immovable – their apparent daily motion is caused by the daily rotation of Earth
- Earth is moved in a sphere around the Sun, causing the apparent annual migration of the Sun. Earth has more than one motion
- Earth’s orbital motion around the Sun causes the seeming reverse in direction of the motions of the planets
https://www.universetoday.com/33113/heliocentric-model/
reposted from: https://nicklasarthur.wordpress.com/2015/07/04/flat-earth-or-spherical-earth-what-does-the-bible-say/
BIBLE STUDY
FLAT EARTH OR SPHERICAL EARTH, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY
Many people will think, you gotta be kidding! For the consummate iconoclast, every belief should be seriously pondered. The lover of truth must allow all assumptions to be overthrown or upheld, with adequate consideration. So bare with me as we consider this question: Flat Earth or Spherical Earth, What does the Bible Say?
Many years ago I was confronted with the idea that the earth does not actually spin on an axis. After much due diligence I came to the conclusion that, yes the earth is fixed and there is absolutely no conclusive evidence to the contrary. The Michelson–Morley experiment was deemed a failure because they could not detect the rotation of the earth. However for the Fixed Earth Proponent the experiment was not a failure, the results should have been accepted at face value. You see they weren’t seeking to answer the question: Does the earth rotate or not? They were trying to verify a predetermined outcome.
Tychonic SystemConsider taking the Copernican Sun-Centered Solar System model, make the Earth the Fixed Center, and everything else works relatively the same. Which one is true? Because we cannot prove the earth moves, it only comes down to belief, and we were taught to believe that it does move! Question everything! My Bible also says, that the earth is fixed and that it does not move — no evidence to the contrary, that settles it for me.
Many Flat Earth Proponents extend to ridicule the Spherical Earth Model based upon the weakness of the rotating earth theory. Since none of the flat earth models rotate, this is not even their argument and the fact that the earth does not spin by no means lends credibility to any flat earth model I have seen. If you are honest you will stop using this specious argument to convince others of your belief. Its like saying that 911 was an inside job, it is a different argument. The flat earth model has much higher hurdles to overcome.
As I have done, and I have spent hundreds of hours, I encourage all to honestly research all of these topics to their own satisfaction, or desired result if that is good enough for you and you are unteachable. Me, I want no less than the truth, and if it cannot be discovered, I must rightly divide the Word of God and let It be the deciding factor if it has anything to say on each subject. So I am going to share what I have found in the Bible and show you some of the other hurdles that I encountered on my investigation into the flat earth models. But please do your own research, it should be fun!
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Gen 1:1)
This is the opening statement of the Bible, the very definition of the word: universe (the single spoken sentence). It is a proclamation of the first three things that God created. He created the beginning, that is time. He created the heaven, notice that it is explicitly singular. And He created the earth, which He goes on to describe in the very next verse.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
At this point on the first day, what does the earth look like? How could it be without form? It must have its own form, but no other form. Does this mean that it must be uniform? Which of the following two are uniform?
A PERFECT sphere has only one form and would be void of additional form. If you took a gallon of water and proportionally placed all of the minerals that make up the earth into it and let it set it would separate by density leaving the water on the surface, now throw that gallon into a limitless void (no gravitational pulls, no light – a true void) it would form a perfect sphere with water on the surface… This is a picture of the earth on the first day before God said, “let there be light” – before He created the other heavenly bodies… before He formed anything else. If Genesis Verse One is a complete description, this is the picture that emerges without using conjecture.
The flat earth model cannot be uniform unless it is infinite, that is, it goes on forever! But not even the Flat Earthers are claiming this. And it cannot be just flat because in reality only three dimensional objects can exist in our universe, so really we are looking at a type of platter earth model because it must have depth and circumference. Therefore the flat earth model is composed of at least three forms: 1. flat, 2. a 90 degree angle or curvature to form the edge and 3. the curvature around the circumference, which cannot be equal to the first curvature, otherwise it could only form a perfect sphere. The geometric shape with least surface area to mass is a sphere. Matter itself, especially liquids tend to get spherical to minimize their surface area. In conformity to this fact, a Spherical Earth would be the natural formation created by God. Only a perfect sphere can be without form and void. We also notice that the earth was covered with water, only described as deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (Gen 1:2)
Because the Bible uses the figure of speech “the foundation or pillars of the earth” many people jump to the conclusion that that foundation must be like the foundation of a building built by man. I can also use the figure of speech to say that, “The Bible is the pillar and foundation of my faith.” But nobody actually believes that I am literally affixed to or standing upon a literal Bible.
Now the scripture speaks of three heavens, the first of which was created on the first day; the third heaven is where the prophet was caught up and where God and the angels dwell, which could perhaps be described as a parallel dimension because it is rarely (according to the bible) but not readily observable on earth. But I do believe that we can explain the additional, or second heaven by the creation of the firmament on the second day when God separated the waters from the waters.
THE FIRMAMENT
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. (Gen 1:6-8)
On day one there was only one body of water, and that was on the earth, which God separated, the water above from the body of the water below. So what is this firmament that God made here between the waters? Verse 20 speaks of …fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. (Gen 1:20) We know that birds do not fly in outer space because they need the atmospheric heaven or firmament to live in, neither do they fly in the dry land. So as some Flat Earthers claim, the firmament is not a pounded out metal type dome fixture that has stars attached to it over a flat earth. Notice also that God called the firmament that He created on the second day “heaven” and not “the heaven”, these are not interchangeable in the creation account, they are not the same thing – one was created on the first day, the other on the second day.
click to enlargeThe Heaven that God created on the first day is where He placed the lights on the forth day: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. (Gen 1:14-16)
THE CIRCLE OF THE EARTH
It is he that sitteth upon the circle (H2329) of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: (Isa 40:22):
Well the earth is definitely round, the Flat Earther would claim that Isaiah 40 describes the circumference, but honestly whether its circle is a sphere or a platter cannot be determined by the Isaiah 40 reference unless we consider:
1. if the earth is Flat, the Isaiah 40 verse is an incomplete description of it;
2. only if the earth is a Sphere is the description complete. The Sphere is only and perfectly a circle from any perspective, the Flat earth is not.
There are only two other verses where the (H2329 חוּג) is used in the scripture:
(Pro 8:27) … he set a compass (H2329) upon the face of the depth.
A definite reference to the Genesis One creation account. Again notice the omission of any description of flatness, it must be assumed. However, this verse seems to suggest a roundness uponthe face of the deep, which only describes the face of a Spherical Earth. The face of a Flat Earth would not encompass, or include its edge or underside.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (Gen 6:7)
THE CIRCUIT OF HEAVEN.
(Job 22:14) …he walketh in the circuit (H2329) of heaven.
The Job 22 verse verifies that the hosts of heaven have a circuit which is easily observable. Which model below explains all of our easily observable phenomena?
Flat earth models:
Neither of these adequately explains the phases of the moon, especially the lunar eclipse which is impossible with either. Neither of these explain the six month days and nights in both the arctic and antarctic at opposite times of the year.
The first and most recent model violates the scriptural requirement of a sun that rises and goes down:
Gen:15:12 … the sun was going down.
Gen:19:23 The sun was risen…
Jdg:9:33 …as soon as the sun is up
In the first model above the sun is always up, it only fades into the distance, and it never goes down. In the second model the sun must immediately appear from the underside of the flat earth in the east to be consistent with our experience. Does that even work? Can the Flat earth proponents come up with model that satisfies all of the above problems? I have yet to see even one.
Spherical Earth Model
The Fixed Spherical Earth model perfectly satisfies all of the biblical criteria, observable lunar phase phenomenon including the lunar eclipse and the six month day/night in both the arctic and antarctic.
BIBLE STUDY
FLAT EARTH OR SPHERICAL EARTH, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY
Many people will think, you gotta be kidding! For the consummate iconoclast, every belief should be seriously pondered. The lover of truth must allow all assumptions to be overthrown or upheld, with adequate consideration. So bare with me as we consider this question: Flat Earth or Spherical Earth, What does the Bible Say?
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place,
and hangeth the earth upon nothing. (Job 26:7)
IN THE BEGINNINGand hangeth the earth upon nothing. (Job 26:7)
Many years ago I was confronted with the idea that the earth does not actually spin on an axis. After much due diligence I came to the conclusion that, yes the earth is fixed and there is absolutely no conclusive evidence to the contrary. The Michelson–Morley experiment was deemed a failure because they could not detect the rotation of the earth. However for the Fixed Earth Proponent the experiment was not a failure, the results should have been accepted at face value. You see they weren’t seeking to answer the question: Does the earth rotate or not? They were trying to verify a predetermined outcome.
Tychonic SystemConsider taking the Copernican Sun-Centered Solar System model, make the Earth the Fixed Center, and everything else works relatively the same. Which one is true? Because we cannot prove the earth moves, it only comes down to belief, and we were taught to believe that it does move! Question everything! My Bible also says, that the earth is fixed and that it does not move — no evidence to the contrary, that settles it for me.Many Flat Earth Proponents extend to ridicule the Spherical Earth Model based upon the weakness of the rotating earth theory. Since none of the flat earth models rotate, this is not even their argument and the fact that the earth does not spin by no means lends credibility to any flat earth model I have seen. If you are honest you will stop using this specious argument to convince others of your belief. Its like saying that 911 was an inside job, it is a different argument. The flat earth model has much higher hurdles to overcome.
As I have done, and I have spent hundreds of hours, I encourage all to honestly research all of these topics to their own satisfaction, or desired result if that is good enough for you and you are unteachable. Me, I want no less than the truth, and if it cannot be discovered, I must rightly divide the Word of God and let It be the deciding factor if it has anything to say on each subject. So I am going to share what I have found in the Bible and show you some of the other hurdles that I encountered on my investigation into the flat earth models. But please do your own research, it should be fun!
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Gen 1:1)
This is the opening statement of the Bible, the very definition of the word: universe (the single spoken sentence). It is a proclamation of the first three things that God created. He created the beginning, that is time. He created the heaven, notice that it is explicitly singular. And He created the earth, which He goes on to describe in the very next verse.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
At this point on the first day, what does the earth look like? How could it be without form? It must have its own form, but no other form. Does this mean that it must be uniform? Which of the following two are uniform?
A PERFECT sphere has only one form and would be void of additional form. If you took a gallon of water and proportionally placed all of the minerals that make up the earth into it and let it set it would separate by density leaving the water on the surface, now throw that gallon into a limitless void (no gravitational pulls, no light – a true void) it would form a perfect sphere with water on the surface… This is a picture of the earth on the first day before God said, “let there be light” – before He created the other heavenly bodies… before He formed anything else. If Genesis Verse One is a complete description, this is the picture that emerges without using conjecture.The flat earth model cannot be uniform unless it is infinite, that is, it goes on forever! But not even the Flat Earthers are claiming this. And it cannot be just flat because in reality only three dimensional objects can exist in our universe, so really we are looking at a type of platter earth model because it must have depth and circumference. Therefore the flat earth model is composed of at least three forms: 1. flat, 2. a 90 degree angle or curvature to form the edge and 3. the curvature around the circumference, which cannot be equal to the first curvature, otherwise it could only form a perfect sphere. The geometric shape with least surface area to mass is a sphere. Matter itself, especially liquids tend to get spherical to minimize their surface area. In conformity to this fact, a Spherical Earth would be the natural formation created by God. Only a perfect sphere can be without form and void. We also notice that the earth was covered with water, only described as deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (Gen 1:2)
Because the Bible uses the figure of speech “the foundation or pillars of the earth” many people jump to the conclusion that that foundation must be like the foundation of a building built by man. I can also use the figure of speech to say that, “The Bible is the pillar and foundation of my faith.” But nobody actually believes that I am literally affixed to or standing upon a literal Bible.
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place,
and hangeth the earth upon nothing. (Job 26:7)
This verse from Job explicitly confirms that the Genesis 1:1 description of the Bible is complete. Before God’s Spirit moved upon the face of the waters, there was nothing but this perfect formless and voidless sphere called the earth as the central focus in an infinite and otherwise empty time/space continuum called the heaven which you couldn’t even see if you were there, because there was no light.Notice that there are no defined boundaries to the heaven that God created on the first day, only an infinite universe is described here, with the Flat Earth models the description is incomplete and wrong in every way.and hangeth the earth upon nothing. (Job 26:7)
Now the scripture speaks of three heavens, the first of which was created on the first day; the third heaven is where the prophet was caught up and where God and the angels dwell, which could perhaps be described as a parallel dimension because it is rarely (according to the bible) but not readily observable on earth. But I do believe that we can explain the additional, or second heaven by the creation of the firmament on the second day when God separated the waters from the waters.
THE FIRMAMENT
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. (Gen 1:6-8)
On day one there was only one body of water, and that was on the earth, which God separated, the water above from the body of the water below. So what is this firmament that God made here between the waters? Verse 20 speaks of …fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. (Gen 1:20) We know that birds do not fly in outer space because they need the atmospheric heaven or firmament to live in, neither do they fly in the dry land. So as some Flat Earthers claim, the firmament is not a pounded out metal type dome fixture that has stars attached to it over a flat earth. Notice also that God called the firmament that He created on the second day “heaven” and not “the heaven”, these are not interchangeable in the creation account, they are not the same thing – one was created on the first day, the other on the second day.
click to enlargeThe Heaven that God created on the first day is where He placed the lights on the forth day: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. (Gen 1:14-16)God abolished total darkness on the forth day, He gave us a night light!
So the lights that God created on the forth day, are not in the “firmament heaven” between the waters that He created on the second day where the birds fly, but they are in “the heaven” that he created on the first day. And many Flat Earthers digress to proclaim that the moon is luminous in itself and does not reflect the suns light as if reflected light from the moon would not qualify as the “lesser light” to rule the night, this specious claim only tends to discredit their major thesis. Mere observation of the phases of the moon in conjunction with the position of the sun verifies that the sun is shining upon a spherical moon.THE CIRCLE OF THE EARTH
It is he that sitteth upon the circle (H2329) of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: (Isa 40:22):
Well the earth is definitely round, the Flat Earther would claim that Isaiah 40 describes the circumference, but honestly whether its circle is a sphere or a platter cannot be determined by the Isaiah 40 reference unless we consider:
1. if the earth is Flat, the Isaiah 40 verse is an incomplete description of it;
2. only if the earth is a Sphere is the description complete. The Sphere is only and perfectly a circle from any perspective, the Flat earth is not.
There are only two other verses where the (H2329 חוּג) is used in the scripture:
(Pro 8:27) … he set a compass (H2329) upon the face of the depth.
A definite reference to the Genesis One creation account. Again notice the omission of any description of flatness, it must be assumed. However, this verse seems to suggest a roundness uponthe face of the deep, which only describes the face of a Spherical Earth. The face of a Flat Earth would not encompass, or include its edge or underside.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (Gen 6:7)
THE CIRCUIT OF HEAVEN.
(Job 22:14) …he walketh in the circuit (H2329) of heaven.
The Job 22 verse verifies that the hosts of heaven have a circuit which is easily observable. Which model below explains all of our easily observable phenomena?
Flat earth models:
The first and most recent model violates the scriptural requirement of a sun that rises and goes down:
Gen:15:12 … the sun was going down.
Gen:19:23 The sun was risen…
Jdg:9:33 …as soon as the sun is up
In the first model above the sun is always up, it only fades into the distance, and it never goes down. In the second model the sun must immediately appear from the underside of the flat earth in the east to be consistent with our experience. Does that even work? Can the Flat earth proponents come up with model that satisfies all of the above problems? I have yet to see even one.
Spherical Earth Model
The Fixed Spherical Earth model perfectly satisfies all of the biblical criteria, observable lunar phase phenomenon including the lunar eclipse and the six month day/night in both the arctic and antarctic.
((continued))
SPECIOUS ARGUMENTS
1. The earth does not spin.
2. satellites are not real.
3. airline flight paths, GPS hoax.
4. Moon Hoax and NASA lies.
5. the UN flag.
6. some people in the past believed it.
7. 911 was an inside job.
None of these, though they may or may not have merit in themselves, none of them prove that the earth is flat and their constant insertion into the debate should only be considered obfuscation. I have found in my research upon this topic that the Atheist uses conjecture to divine a flat earth from the Bible to discredit it, now Christians are doing the same thing to uphold a thesis that is not really there! Things stated in visions, dreams and other Bible topics are not biblical doctrine on the shape of the earth, but conjecture. Bible Doctrine on the earth is only what is explicitly stated as such: The earth is explicitly described as circular, deep, and hanging upon nothing – this description can only be the sphere. God is smarter than all of us. A circle is a hypothetical 2D object, add the word “deep” , a 3rd dimension, without additional description and the sphere emerges. Nowhere does the Bible explicitly state, “the earth is flat.” It must be assumed or conjectured from unrelated scripture.
Please show me these things on your flat earth: ends, edges, corners, domes and pillars, if and when you find them, then I will need to explain them to you. You cannot show them to me because they are all symbolic. In Isaiah, God used the one word which completely describes a three dimensional earth from every perspective, a circle. He did not call it a ball, because the earth is not a toy, created to play a game. Some ancient Hebrews did use conjecture to develop a cosmology, others observed the heavens and discerned that the earth was spherical as explicitly described in the Bible, much as I do.
By conjecture you can make the Bible say anything you want on any topic as simply as you can use a dictionary to write another book. Conjecture allows the reader to read whatever he wants the Bible to say on any topic. What does it mean to rightly divide the word of God?
8. Exaggerated Optical Arguments. (click to enlarge)
First you start with a false assumption, “that this could only be seen if the earth is flat.” But, there is actually only about a 4 inch rise in the curvature of the water per mile at the center point between, times 56 miles equals about a 20 foot rise between the Michigan and Chicago shore. Because my camera is 6 feet above the water edge, and the buildings start at least 6 feet above the water I should be able to see the buildings across the water starting at 34 feet above the Chicago water level, which would be about floor level of the third story. Would the picture be consistent with this calculation? YES!
FINAL THOUGHTS
Nowhere in the creation account is there any boundary placed upon The Heaven that God created on the first day. Did an infinite God create anything less that an infinite universe?
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. (Psa 19:1)
That the bible describes the earth as flat can only be arrived at through assumption or conjecture, nowhere is the earth explicitly described as flat, it is only described as a circle, therefore:
1. if the earth is Flat, then a circle is an incomplete description of it;
2. only if the earth is a Sphere is the description complete because the Sphere is only and perfectly a circle from any perspective, the Flat earth is not.
The Bible does not explicitly support a Flat Earth, period.
Keep your eyes on the more important prize, continue to Walk in the Spirit and be led by the Spirit. Our Creator calls His Elect to obey His commandments, allow His Holy Spirit to bring forth the fruit of repentance in your life, “the good works which God has before ordained that we might walk in them.” If you cannot obey Him now, how do you think He will lead you when the time is critical. Learn to trust and obey Him now and you will be able to hear and obey Him through the present tribulation, coming World Conflicts and Mark of the Beast Inquisition. Cross the Border into His Kingdom, obey the King and live forever, nothing is more important!
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. (Mat 23:13)
SPECIOUS ARGUMENTS
1. The earth does not spin.
2. satellites are not real.
3. airline flight paths, GPS hoax.
4. Moon Hoax and NASA lies.
5. the UN flag.
6. some people in the past believed it.
7. 911 was an inside job.
None of these, though they may or may not have merit in themselves, none of them prove that the earth is flat and their constant insertion into the debate should only be considered obfuscation. I have found in my research upon this topic that the Atheist uses conjecture to divine a flat earth from the Bible to discredit it, now Christians are doing the same thing to uphold a thesis that is not really there! Things stated in visions, dreams and other Bible topics are not biblical doctrine on the shape of the earth, but conjecture. Bible Doctrine on the earth is only what is explicitly stated as such: The earth is explicitly described as circular, deep, and hanging upon nothing – this description can only be the sphere. God is smarter than all of us. A circle is a hypothetical 2D object, add the word “deep” , a 3rd dimension, without additional description and the sphere emerges. Nowhere does the Bible explicitly state, “the earth is flat.” It must be assumed or conjectured from unrelated scripture.
Please show me these things on your flat earth: ends, edges, corners, domes and pillars, if and when you find them, then I will need to explain them to you. You cannot show them to me because they are all symbolic. In Isaiah, God used the one word which completely describes a three dimensional earth from every perspective, a circle. He did not call it a ball, because the earth is not a toy, created to play a game. Some ancient Hebrews did use conjecture to develop a cosmology, others observed the heavens and discerned that the earth was spherical as explicitly described in the Bible, much as I do.
By conjecture you can make the Bible say anything you want on any topic as simply as you can use a dictionary to write another book. Conjecture allows the reader to read whatever he wants the Bible to say on any topic. What does it mean to rightly divide the word of God?
8. Exaggerated Optical Arguments. (click to enlarge)
First you start with a false assumption, “that this could only be seen if the earth is flat.” But, there is actually only about a 4 inch rise in the curvature of the water per mile at the center point between, times 56 miles equals about a 20 foot rise between the Michigan and Chicago shore. Because my camera is 6 feet above the water edge, and the buildings start at least 6 feet above the water I should be able to see the buildings across the water starting at 34 feet above the Chicago water level, which would be about floor level of the third story. Would the picture be consistent with this calculation? YES!
FINAL THOUGHTS
Nowhere in the creation account is there any boundary placed upon The Heaven that God created on the first day. Did an infinite God create anything less that an infinite universe?
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. (Psa 19:1)
That the bible describes the earth as flat can only be arrived at through assumption or conjecture, nowhere is the earth explicitly described as flat, it is only described as a circle, therefore:
1. if the earth is Flat, then a circle is an incomplete description of it;
2. only if the earth is a Sphere is the description complete because the Sphere is only and perfectly a circle from any perspective, the Flat earth is not.
The Bible does not explicitly support a Flat Earth, period.
Keep your eyes on the more important prize, continue to Walk in the Spirit and be led by the Spirit. Our Creator calls His Elect to obey His commandments, allow His Holy Spirit to bring forth the fruit of repentance in your life, “the good works which God has before ordained that we might walk in them.” If you cannot obey Him now, how do you think He will lead you when the time is critical. Learn to trust and obey Him now and you will be able to hear and obey Him through the present tribulation, coming World Conflicts and Mark of the Beast Inquisition. Cross the Border into His Kingdom, obey the King and live forever, nothing is more important!
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. (Mat 23:13)
Matthew 2:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
Which star was it? Did God make a literal star fly hundreds of trillions of miles through the galaxy and align with their path so they could walk to Lord Jesus' birth?
Did God move the star back to its original place?
How come no scientist has ever seen billions of planets knocked out of alignment like billiard balls because of such a fast moving star?
How can stars stand? Do they have legs? Or does God mean it just was held against the forces of physics for a few hours/days?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
Which star was it? Did God make a literal star fly hundreds of trillions of miles through the galaxy and align with their path so they could walk to Lord Jesus' birth?
Did God move the star back to its original place?
How come no scientist has ever seen billions of planets knocked out of alignment like billiard balls because of such a fast moving star?
How can stars stand? Do they have legs? Or does God mean it just was held against the forces of physics for a few hours/days?
Well done posthuman!
I will say this about this thread:
If I were a tentative seeker of the truth of the Gospel and I came across this thread seriously promoting the idea that the earth is flat - and that from the Bible - could I be blamed for immediately dumping the idea that the word of God was anything other than fables and myths!
Exactly as our enemies charge!
Talk about an own goal...
I will say this about this thread:
If I were a tentative seeker of the truth of the Gospel and I came across this thread seriously promoting the idea that the earth is flat - and that from the Bible - could I be blamed for immediately dumping the idea that the word of God was anything other than fables and myths!
Exactly as our enemies charge!
Talk about an own goal...
If light takes 4.5 years to arrive from the nearest star to earth, then God made a star move in the sky at least 4.5 years before the wise men ever saw it, right?
But it was standing still + 30km/s x the distance to the star, so that it was stationary relative to the earth.
But it was standing still + 30km/s x the distance to the star, so that it was stationary relative to the earth.
Maybe stars are angels.
But NASA doesn't say so. Back up your claim with scientific evidence.
yes, "circle" is a strictly 2-d word.
there are perfectly good words for "disc" or "platter" in Hebrew, which are specifically 3-d words, that Isaiah did not use. he used a 2-d word. right?
the projection of a sphere into two dimensions is a circle, from any angle. the projection of a platter is only a circle from exactly two directions: directly above and below the center of the disc. from most angles, it's ovoid, but the projection edge-on of a frisbee is a rectangle!
the projection of a 3-d form onto a 2-d surface: that's how a visible horizon is formed. it is the projection of our three dimensional range of vision onto a two dimensional portion of a limiting plane defined by our optical capability and by the particular topology of the surface an observer is on. on earth, apart from features of the landscape blocking view, the horizon is a circle, no matter where you are. if it is spheroid. if it is a plane, then this is not true: for anyone standing within observable distance of the edge, the horizon is no longer circular, but an area defined by two arcs of different radii - the intersection of two circles.