Tithing

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

It takes more faith to give 20% and even more faith to give 100% Jesus said, So likewise whosoever he be of you that forsake not all that He has he cannot be my disciple Luke 14:33. I have done it, and I was blessed like never before, but anyone who binds tithing on NT saints errs from truth.
HEB. 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.

Melchizedek is a type of Christ, and Abraham’s giving to Melchizedek is an example of new covenant giving, which is not legislated or mandated. Ministers of greed threaten believers with the curse of Malachi, but they will be judged for binding the OT laws on believers causing Christians to be severed from Christ.

AS PAUL TEACHES all our giving should come from a grateful heart. He mentions nothing about tithing or robbing God. Abraham gave from what he already had. He not only gave but he first received blessings of bread and wine along with a word from Melchizedek.

Our views seem somewhat similar, but still...

Melchizedek is a type of Christ, and Abraham’s giving to Melchizedek is an example of new covenant giving Abram gave on war spoils, not on occupational work. If that's how we are to go about our business, we need to get our butts into combat and win some wars.

Also, to follow Abram's example, let's be honest about how much Abram kept. How much did Abram keep for himself?

To use Abram as an example, I need to see how much Abram gave on occupational work.

AS PAUL TEACHES all our giving should come from a grateful heart Agreed. No maximum, no minimum. Whatever God instructs/leads the Christian to give.

 

[sparkman]

Some people give whatever amount they want and call it a tithe. Where does this strange thinking come from?

A tithe is 10%. Not more and not less.

Anyway, when done by O.T. standards, 3 types of tithes are due.

When giving is done by N.T. standards, there is no limit or minimum.

I don't think anyone can prove that tithing is even possible because there is no Levitical priesthood. The priests received the tithe. There is no more temple, no more priesthood, and no more Mosaic Covenant.

And, like you said, there were three tithes in the Mosaic Covenant...a tithe to the Levites, a tithe for festival observance, and a tithe every third and sixth year out of a seven year cycle for the widows and orphans.

The cultic group I attended as a young man required this tithing structure, and it was administered on gross income..so members had the tax burden plus the 23% on the gross income (before taxes). Additionally, if you only paid the tithes, you were considered an unworthy servant, and had to give voluntary offerings on the festival days to prove yourself worthy.

Funny thing is that ministers never paid any tithes, although under the Mosaic Covenant, Levites (and they considered themselves the equivalent of Levites) paid tithes to the high priest (this was called a tithe of the tithe).

When the organization dissolved, the head of the church admitted that they were imposing burdens on the membership that they themselves were unwilling to bear.

That, and they used funds designated for widows and orphans to buy a corporate jet..funny how that works. They had a "surplus" in this fund because they were misers and didn't dispense from it very lightly..and they didn't think that needy non-members were worthy of donations apparently. The jet was about $16.5 million.

I'm sure most evangelical churches are much better stewards of money, though. The church I'm attending operates on a budget that I consider to be very modest considering what they do.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

I don't think anyone can prove that tithing is even possible because there is no Levitical priesthood. The priests received the tithe. There is no more temple, no more priesthood, and no more Mosaic Covenant.

And, like you said, there were three tithes in the Mosaic Covenant...a tithe to the Levites, a tithe for festival observance, and a tithe every third and sixth year out of a seven year cycle for the widows and orphans.

The cultic group I attended as a young man required this tithing structure, and it was administered on gross income..so members had the tax burden plus the 23% on the gross income (before taxes). Additionally, if you only paid the tithes, you were considered an unworthy servant, and had to give voluntary offerings on the festival days to prove yourself worthy.

Funny thing is that ministers never paid any tithes, although under the Mosaic Covenant, Levites (and they considered themselves the equivalent of Levites) paid tithes to the high priest (this was called a tithe of the tithe).

When the organization dissolved, the head of the church admitted that they were imposing burdens on the membership that they themselves were unwilling to bear.

That, and they used funds designated for widows and orphans to buy a corporate jet..funny how that works. They had a "surplus" in this fund because they were misers and didn't dispense from it very lightly..and they didn't think that needy non-members were worthy of donations apparently. The jet was about $16.5 million.

I'm sure most evangelical churches are much better stewards of money, though. The church I'm attending operates on a budget that I consider to be very modest considering what they do.

The cultic group I attended as a young man required this tithing structure, and it was administered on gross income..so members had the tax burden plus the 23% on the gross income (before taxes). Additionally, if you only paid the tithes, you were considered an unworthy servant, and had to give voluntary offerings on the festival days to prove yourself worthy. That cultic group was closer to getting the tithing system down correctly than non-cultic churches that advocate tithing!

Funny thing is that ministers never paid any tithes, although under the Mosaic Covenant, Levites (and they considered themselves the equivalent of Levites) paid tithes to the high priest (this was called a tithe of the tithe). Funny how they missed that part, huh. I used to go to a local AoG. The pastors did the "tithe of the tithe" to the headquarters. Interestingly, the AoG doesn't push the 3 tithe system...just one.

I'm sure most evangelical churches are much better stewards of money, though. The church I'm attending operates on a budget that I consider to be very modest considering what they do. How does that church teach giving?

Good post! Need more people explaining the O.T. version of tithing so people understand it was speaking of 3 types of tithes rather than just one.

 

[Burninglight]

Tithing is not always in the form of 'money'...simple, but so hard to conceive for so many...

That is correct; in fact one time God told the people to use it to party with strong drink, lol

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Where is the command to give the first 10%?

Don't look at my signature line.

And if you're going to mention first-fruits, you may want to investigate what those are.

Tithe = 10 percent

Honor the Lord with your wealth
And with the first fruits of all your crops (income);

Then your barns will be abundantly filled
And your vats will overflow with new wine. Proverbs 3:9-10 AMP

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:33

"What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. Luke 11:42 NLT

Notice: Jesus said you should tithe - Jesus said it, I believe it, that settles it!

 

[Burninglight]

Tithe = 10 percent

Honor the Lord with your wealth
And with the first fruits of all your crops (income);

Then your barns will be abundantly filled
And your vats will overflow with new wine. Proverbs 3:9-10 AMP

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:33

"What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. Luke 11:42 NLT

Notice: Jesus said you should tithe - Jesus said it, I believe it, that settles it!

Jesus was speaking rhetorically. If you are going to keep all the law tithing is part of it; therefore, you must tithe but not leave the rest of the law undone. Besides, this was before the death of Christ where all were still under the law. But after the death of Christ the law was fulfilled and the law changed to love God with all our being and our neighbor as ourselves.

Heb. 7: 12 Forwhenthereisachangeinthepriesthood,thereisnecessarilyachangeinthelawaswell. Jesus was also speaking to the Jews not the gentiles. Jesus sent Paul to speak to the non Jews and Paul states we should give only has we purpose in our hearts, but he does encourage that we give generously.

What you are advocating for is dangerous, because you a trying to bind tithing on your brothers and sisters in Christ. If you want to tithe, there is nothing wrong with giving that way, but when you try to teach and bind it on Christians you make it law and it is no longer giving. So, if you continue to bind this on us Christians, you had better be keeping the rest of the law perfectly as it would be your only means of salvation, because you're severed from Christ. You don't know what manner of spirit you have.

Beware lest you be found to be fighting against God.

You are loved,
Burninglight

 

[Limey410v2]

Tithe = 10 percent

Honor the Lord with your wealth
And with the first fruits of all your crops (income);

Then your barns will be abundantly filled
And your vats will overflow with new wine. Proverbs 3:9-10 AMP

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:33

"What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. Luke 11:42 NLT

Notice: Jesus said you should tithe - Jesus said it, I believe it, that settles it!

I will tithe as an Israelite if my Pastor lives like a Levite

 

[Denadii]

Tithe = 10 percent

Honor the Lord with your wealth
And with the first fruits of all your crops (income);

Then your barns will be abundantly filled
And your vats will overflow with new wine. Proverbs 3:9-10 AMP

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:33

"What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. Luke 11:42 NLT

Notice: Jesus said you should tithe - Jesus said it, I believe it, that settles it!

The Matthew verse does not talk about the tithe

 

[Burninglight]

The cultic group I attended as a young man required this tithing structure, and it was administered on gross income..so members had the tax burden plus the 23% on the gross income (before taxes). Additionally, if you only paid the tithes, you were considered an unworthy servant, and had to give voluntary offerings on the festival days to prove yourself worthy. That cultic group was closer to getting the tithing system down correctly than non-cultic churches that advocate tithing!

Funny thing is that ministers never paid any tithes, although under the Mosaic Covenant, Levites (and they considered themselves the equivalent of Levites) paid tithes to the high priest (this was called a tithe of the tithe). Funny how they missed that part, huh. I used to go to a local AoG. The pastors did the "tithe of the tithe" to the headquarters. Interestingly, the AoG doesn't push the 3 tithe system...just one.

I'm sure most evangelical churches are much better stewards of money, though. The church I'm attending operates on a budget that I consider to be very modest considering what they do. How does that church teach giving?

Good post! Need more people explaining the O.T. version of tithing so people understand it was speaking of 3 types of tithes rather than just one.

I believed in tithing and taught it for so many years. Well there goes years of burned works, lol. I say give to the because of Christ generously, but do it only as God purposes in your heart. Those that advocate the law of tithing I saying gently reprove them and then ignore if they persist.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

I am getting some good responses on this thread. You said it. Tithing is not considered giving. We pay a percentage to the government (Taxes) which is a mandated form of tithing; that is not considered giving to the government. Those that impose or bind tithing on believers are doing that without Biblical justification. Some use the excuse that Jesus saying to the Pharisees "this you ought to have done (Tithing) but not left the other undone" But Jesus was speaking to them rhetorically as those who follow the law. Jesus was showing that they failed to keep the law.

Tithing is not considered giving. I often quote 2 Cor 9:7 on the N.T. approach to giving:

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7

It is possible - in my opinion reality - that God does lay it on some people's heart to give 10%. However, God will not prompt every individual to give the same percentage. I don't think He'll prompt those who struggle with bills to give much, if any. On the other hand, those who have excess funds, He may prompt to substantial amounts.

So I will not decry a person choosing to give 10%(a tithe) and sharing the joys of obeying God. However, I WILL decry that same person is s/he tries to tell all other Christians they need to give the same percentage.

In the instance where God lays it on one's heart to give 10% that giving is the equivalent of a tithe.

We pay a percentage to the government (Taxes) which is a mandated form of tithing It's only a tithe if it's 10%. In O.T. times, it was 10% to the Levites, 10% to the Festival, and 10%(over 3 years) for the Poor tithe. What our government collects/demands is taxes.

But Jesus was speaking to them rhetorically as those who follow the law. Jesus was showing that they failed to keep the law. Correct. The law was still in affect.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel." -Matt 23:23-24

Notice also, in that passage, that justice, mercy and faithfulness were more important matters of the law.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Tithe = 10 percent

Honor the Lord with your wealth
And with the first fruits of all your crops (income);

Then your barns will be abundantly filled
And your vats will overflow with new wine. Proverbs 3:9-10 AMP

You even read my post? What are first fruits? Look in a Bible dictionary. What does the Bible dictionary state about first fruits?

Read and explain my signature line. I mentioned my signature line in the other post and you total ignored it. Why?

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:33

"What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. Luke 11:42 NLT

Notice: Jesus said you should tithe - Jesus said it, I believe it, that settles it!

So you're giving herbs from your garden as Jesus commended?

You're giving all 3 types of tithes that were required, none of which were money?

Give me O.T. Scripture of someone tithing money. Notice I am NOT asking for an example of a tithe of agricultural products or livestock.

Look below, under the horizontal line. Explain it rather than ignoring it.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

The Matthew verse does not talk about the tithe

But that's a great verse to take out of context and push ANY agenda.

 

[Denadii]

But that's a great verse to take out of context and push ANY agenda.

LOL Ain't that the truth?

 

[Burninglight]

Tithing is not considered giving. I often quote 2 Cor 9:7 on the N.T. approach to giving:

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7

It is possible - in my opinion reality - that God does lay it on some people's heart to give 10%. However, God will not prompt every individual to give the same percentage. I don't think He'll prompt those who struggle with bills to give much, if any. On the other hand, those who have excess funds, He may prompt to substantial amounts.

So I will not decry a person choosing to give 10%(a tithe) and sharing the joys of obeying God. However, I WILL decry that same person is s/he tries to tell all other Christians they need to give the same percentage.

In the instance where God lays it on one's heart to give 10% that giving is the equivalent of a tithe.

We pay a percentage to the government (Taxes) which is a mandated form of tithing It's only a tithe if it's 10%. In O.T. times, it was 10% to the Levites, 10% to the Festival, and 10%(over 3 years) for the Poor tithe. What our government collects/demands is taxes.

But Jesus was speaking to them rhetorically as those who follow the law. Jesus was showing that they failed to keep the law. Correct. The law was still in affect.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel." -Matt 23:23-24

Notice also, in that passage, that justice, mercy and faithfulness were more important matters of the law.

So, you agree with me or not? If you follow my thread carefully, you'll see that I said the law was still in affect at that time of Jesus, but it is not now. No one said you couldn't tithe. I said there is nothing wrong with doing it, but if you teach or bind others to it or you think it is required of you to do to be right with God, you are in deception. As for God not requiring or not allowing someone with little to give more, can be proven false according to Scripture. For example, Jesus spoke of people like the widow and her mite. There are OT examples like the woman sharing the best part of her last meal with a prophet before she starves.

 

[Burninglight]

But that's a great verse to take out of context and push ANY agenda.

Looks like we are not getting the message of the cross from the MessageOfTheCross!

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

So, you agree with me or not? If you follow my thread carefully, you'll see that I said the law was still in affect at that time of Jesus, but it is not now. No one said you couldn't tithe. I said there is nothing wrong with doing it, but if you teach or bind others to it or you think it is required of you to do to be right with God, you are in deception. As for God not requiring or not allowing someone with little to give more, can be proven false according to Scripture. For example, Jesus spoke of people like the widow and her mite. There are OT examples like the woman sharing the best part of her last meal with a prophet before she starves.

Seems we are overall on the same page - which would be a good thing!

Even tithing opponents don't always agree 100% on everything. But iron sharpens iron, yeah?

As for God not requiring or not allowing someone with little to give more, can be proven false according to Scripture. For example, Jesus spoke of people like the widow and her mite. From the context, it appears to be He was suggesting her gift was more valuable.

I do think those who struggle to take care of bills from medical expenses, food, shelter, etc. should prioritize their funds for those basic necessities of life.

Yet, whatever God lays on their heart...it's not my place to tell them otherwise. 2 Cor 9:7 applies to the rich and poor.

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7

 

[Burninglight]

Our views seem somewhat similar, but still...

Melchizedek is a type of Christ, and Abraham’s giving to Melchizedek is an example of new covenant giving Abram gave on war spoils, not on occupational work. If that's how we are to go about our business, we need to get our butts into combat and win some wars.

Also, to follow Abram's example, let's be honest about how much Abram kept. How much did Abram keep for himself?

To use Abram as an example, I need to see how much Abram gave on occupational work.

AS PAUL TEACHES all our giving should come from a grateful heart Agreed. No maximum, no minimum. Whatever God instructs/leads the Christian to give.

Yes, I think so. No where do we see that Abraham's tithe was mandated as law; besides, it was before the law so how can it have be mandated? It was his act of worship done freely as he purposed in his heart which is the way we have been instructed to give in the NT (Cheerfully and as we purpose in our hearts not according to law).

Moreover, Hebrews 7 is not about tithing. It is about the greatest of the priesthood of Jesus Christ over all. The Book of Hebrews used tithing as an illustration to show the greatness of the Melchizedek priesthood. But I quoted when Hebrews tells us that “the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law” (verse 12). So even when tithing was made law (Very unclear one at that) that law too was changed with the rest of the law that wasn't given to the gentiles anyway with the death and resurrection of Christ.

As I mentioned, if someone wants to tithe, I have no problem with it, but I do if you try and bind it on me or others as a law we must follow.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Yes, I think so. No where do we see that Abraham's tithe was mandated as law; besides, it was before the law so how can it have be mandated? It was his act of worship done freely as he purposed in his heart which is the way we have been instructed to give in the NT (Cheerfully and as we purpose in our hearts not according to law).

Moreover, Hebrews 7 is not about tithing. It is about the greatest of the priesthood of Jesus Christ over all. The Book of Hebrews used tithing as an illustration to show the greatness of the Melchizedek priesthood. But I quoted when Hebrews tells us that “the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law” (verse 12). So even when tithing was made law (Very unclear one at that) that law too was changed with the rest of the law that wasn't given to the gentiles anyway with the death and resurrection of Christ.

As I mentioned, if someone wants to tithe, I have no problem with it, but I do if you try and bind it on me or others as a law we must follow.

On Abram's tithe to Melchizedek, I don't see it as having much to do with giving to God. It was more of a tax paid for battling a war on someone else's land.

Tithes, in contrast, were on produce and livestock from the land in O.T. times, not on war spoils.

Also, Abram kept nothing. So many tithing advocates emphasize that Abram gave a tenth. What did Abram keep...nothing. He gave all.

 

[fredoheaven]

Is there any NTBible verse/s or passage/s that says specifically 'Tithing' is no longer be practice?

Thanks

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Is there any NTBible verse/s or passage/s that says specifically 'Tithing' is no longer be practice?

Thanks

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7

Explain how you read a tithe into this verse.