Catholic believe pope is infallible
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Why are you changing the subject Jay? Please stay on topic. The Roman Catholic heresies are evil and anti Scriptural and actually diametrically opposed to what Jesus specifically instructed in places. They are Satanic and elevate the traditions of men above the Word of God and therefore you are wrong to say they are based on the Bible when they are not.
J
Hi R33
It would not have been easy for anyone to see the Trinity in the bible just from reading it.
You can pick up on it now because it has been taught and so you see it.
When Jesus gets baptized by John in the Jordan River, all 3 persons of the Trinity are present:
God Father: " This is My Son in whom I am well-please".
God Son: Is being baptized.
God Holy Spirit: In for form of a dove.
Mathew 3:16-17
Also when Jesus sends the Apostles out on the Great Commission, He says:
"...baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit".
Mathew 28:19
But would you ever have thought of the doctrine of the Trinity from this?
Probably not. It IS necessary to study both the bible and some theology to get a good rounded picture of our faith.
My two cents...
P.S. Yes, it IS a good idea for you to look into what you believe as an adult.
It would not have been easy for anyone to see the Trinity in the bible just from reading it.
You can pick up on it now because it has been taught and so you see it.
When Jesus gets baptized by John in the Jordan River, all 3 persons of the Trinity are present:
God Father: " This is My Son in whom I am well-please".
God Son: Is being baptized.
God Holy Spirit: In for form of a dove.
Mathew 3:16-17
Also when Jesus sends the Apostles out on the Great Commission, He says:
"...baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit".
Mathew 28:19
But would you ever have thought of the doctrine of the Trinity from this?
Probably not. It IS necessary to study both the bible and some theology to get a good rounded picture of our faith.
My two cents...
P.S. Yes, it IS a good idea for you to look into what you believe as an adult.
I like to call him Professor Google.
He can be a bit Dangerous at times!!
I don't use Professor Google. I like to go straight to the source.
For instance, for the RC faith, the Catechism of the Catholi Church is the official teaching. Trouble is that the Church is making changes and sometimes the book doesn't keep up with what's happening.
The lastest writing of the Pope as Ex Cathedra is Amoris Letitia. It has caused quite a stir, hasn't it?
The RCC does NOT believe that only Catholics are saved --- you're right about that.
When it declared that only Catholics were saved it was because the RCC was the ONLY Church back then.
OF COURSE only those in the Church would be saved ! Those outside of the Church were lost, pretty much as today. Although one could not go to Church (I wish my typewriter wouldn't capitalize every "Church" word since it means something different!)
and still be saved. But if one is outside of the Church in the sense that he is an enemy of the Church, or an atheist, of course he'd be without God and lost.
I think I've seen James White in debates, not sure. I do respect him if he goes to the souce.
I really dislike hearsay.
Catholics also believe many strange thing about Protestants.
P.S. As you must know, the magesterium is made up of the Pope and the Bishops.
He can be a bit Dangerous at times!!
I don't use Professor Google. I like to go straight to the source.
For instance, for the RC faith, the Catechism of the Catholi Church is the official teaching. Trouble is that the Church is making changes and sometimes the book doesn't keep up with what's happening.
The lastest writing of the Pope as Ex Cathedra is Amoris Letitia. It has caused quite a stir, hasn't it?
The RCC does NOT believe that only Catholics are saved --- you're right about that.
When it declared that only Catholics were saved it was because the RCC was the ONLY Church back then.
OF COURSE only those in the Church would be saved ! Those outside of the Church were lost, pretty much as today. Although one could not go to Church (I wish my typewriter wouldn't capitalize every "Church" word since it means something different!)
and still be saved. But if one is outside of the Church in the sense that he is an enemy of the Church, or an atheist, of course he'd be without God and lost.
I think I've seen James White in debates, not sure. I do respect him if he goes to the souce.
I really dislike hearsay.
Catholics also believe many strange thing about Protestants.
P.S. As you must know, the magesterium is made up of the Pope and the Bishops.
In Roman Catholic teaching there is no salvation apart from participation in the sacraments mediated through its priesthood. The Roman Church teaches that she is the mediator between Christ and the individual. Saving grace is mediated through these sacraments. John Hardon, author of The Question and Answer Catholic Catechism (which carries the official authorization of the Vatican) says this:
How does the Church communicate the merits of Christ’s mercy to sinners?
The Church communicates the merits of Christ’s mercy to sinners through the
Mass and the sacraments and all the prayers and good works of the faithful.
Are the sacraments necessary for salvation?
According to the way God has willed that we be saved the sacraments are necessary for salvation
(John Hardon, The Question and Answer Catholic Catechism )
How does the Church communicate the merits of Christ’s mercy to sinners?
The Church communicates the merits of Christ’s mercy to sinners through the
Mass and the sacraments and all the prayers and good works of the faithful.
Are the sacraments necessary for salvation?
According to the way God has willed that we be saved the sacraments are necessary for salvation
(John Hardon, The Question and Answer Catholic Catechism )
How odd for any Roman Catholic (or anyone else for that matter) to claim that Catholics do not pray to Mary when they are told to pray the Hail Mary on a regular basis as if that will help absolve them of their sins. The ex cathedra dogmas concern Mary and not Jesus. Catholics are mandated to accept as true the completely un-Biblical beliefs that Mary was immaculately conceived, and that she did not die and was assumed bodily to heaven. Neither of these heresies has any basis whatsoever in Scripture. They are complete fabrications from the fanatical minds of heretical idolaters known as popes, who then pretend these beliefs are true and force them on the unsuspecting Roman Catholic follower. They encourage the unsuspecting Roman Catholic to pray to Mary for intercession despite the fact that Scripture plainly states that Jesus Christ is the only intercessor between God and man.
Hi Test,
OK.
I listened to it.
He didn't explain it properly.
If you really want to know about Catholic baptism you're going to have to read the CCC Catechism of the CAtholic Church
Paragraphs 1213 to 1245.
But the parts I was speaking about and which is taught by the CAtholic Church is this.
Paragraphs 1229 to 1232.
I'll post it.
The RCC teaches that babies are baptized to remove original sin. This is why:
God is a perfect being and cannot be in the presence of sin.
Since we're born with the effect of Adam's sin, we are "stained".
So, supposedly, if the baby dies he cannot go to be with God.
So babies are baptized as soon as possible.
This makes some sense if you think of it.
However, the RCC no longer teaches that these unbaptized babies to to a special place. It used to be called Limbo, altought the RCC never taught this.
Now it says that we trust in the love and mercy of God.
So the basic teaching is this:
The baby is baptized and "receives" the Holy Spirit. But at some point in the adult life the person must ACCEPT his baptism.
If he grows up to be a murderer the Holy Spirit certainly is not DWELLING within him.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
III. How is the Sacrament of Baptism Celebrated?
Christian Initiation
1229 From the time of the apostles, becoming a Christian has been accomplished by a journey and initiation in several stages. This journey can be covered rapidly or slowly, but certain essential elements will always have to be present: proclamation of the Word, acceptance of the Gospel entailing conversion, profession of faith, Baptism itself, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and admission to Eucharistic communion.
1230 This initiation has varied greatly through the centuries according to circumstances. In the first centuries of the Church, Christian initiation saw considerable development. A long period of catechumenate included a series of preparatory rites, which were liturgical landmarks along the path of catechumenal preparation and culminated in the celebration of the sacraments of Christian initiation.
1231 Where infant Baptism has become the form in which this sacrament is usually celebrated, it has become a single act encapsulating the preparatory stages of Christian initiation in a very abridged way. By its very nature infant Baptism requires a post-baptismal catechumenate. Not only is there a need for instruction after Baptism, but also for the necessary flowering of baptismal grace in personal growth. the catechism has its proper place here.
1232 The second Vatican Council restored for the Latin Church "the catechumenate for adults, comprising several distinct steps."34 The rites for these stages are to be found in the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA).35 The Council also gives permission that: "In mission countries, in addition to what is furnished by the Christian tradition, those elements of initiation rites may be admitted which are already in use among some peoples insofar as they can be adapted to the Christian ritual."36
OK.
I listened to it.
He didn't explain it properly.
If you really want to know about Catholic baptism you're going to have to read the CCC Catechism of the CAtholic Church
Paragraphs 1213 to 1245.
But the parts I was speaking about and which is taught by the CAtholic Church is this.
Paragraphs 1229 to 1232.
I'll post it.
The RCC teaches that babies are baptized to remove original sin. This is why:
God is a perfect being and cannot be in the presence of sin.
Since we're born with the effect of Adam's sin, we are "stained".
So, supposedly, if the baby dies he cannot go to be with God.
So babies are baptized as soon as possible.
This makes some sense if you think of it.
However, the RCC no longer teaches that these unbaptized babies to to a special place. It used to be called Limbo, altought the RCC never taught this.
Now it says that we trust in the love and mercy of God.
So the basic teaching is this:
The baby is baptized and "receives" the Holy Spirit. But at some point in the adult life the person must ACCEPT his baptism.
If he grows up to be a murderer the Holy Spirit certainly is not DWELLING within him.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
III. How is the Sacrament of Baptism Celebrated?
Christian Initiation
1229 From the time of the apostles, becoming a Christian has been accomplished by a journey and initiation in several stages. This journey can be covered rapidly or slowly, but certain essential elements will always have to be present: proclamation of the Word, acceptance of the Gospel entailing conversion, profession of faith, Baptism itself, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and admission to Eucharistic communion.
1230 This initiation has varied greatly through the centuries according to circumstances. In the first centuries of the Church, Christian initiation saw considerable development. A long period of catechumenate included a series of preparatory rites, which were liturgical landmarks along the path of catechumenal preparation and culminated in the celebration of the sacraments of Christian initiation.
1231 Where infant Baptism has become the form in which this sacrament is usually celebrated, it has become a single act encapsulating the preparatory stages of Christian initiation in a very abridged way. By its very nature infant Baptism requires a post-baptismal catechumenate. Not only is there a need for instruction after Baptism, but also for the necessary flowering of baptismal grace in personal growth. the catechism has its proper place here.
1232 The second Vatican Council restored for the Latin Church "the catechumenate for adults, comprising several distinct steps."34 The rites for these stages are to be found in the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA).35 The Council also gives permission that: "In mission countries, in addition to what is furnished by the Christian tradition, those elements of initiation rites may be admitted which are already in use among some peoples insofar as they can be adapted to the Christian ritual."36
The main problem in the catholic church is the mixing of church and state.
The church ran whole countries.
How do you unpick such authority over everyones lives from being in the Kingdom
and being outside.
The idea that certain concepts cannot be questioned or challenged, worked through
is the problem.
If you take the concept of an office or role makes someone holy or inspired or divine,
then one loses ones way. In catholicism, transubstantiation and mass become a different
thing than Jesus intended. It is the emotional symbolism, not the physical reality that
matters.
In Israel they turned the bronze snake into an idol, and it had to be destroyed.
So much in life is about not the rank or adulation people get, but the significance of how
they live. Once it becomes just ceremonies and superstition it has lost its meaning.
So the pope is the representative of the historical roman church, and summarises their
compromises and inspiration. But no matter how "nice" it may appear, venerating Mary
and her appearances just makes me stop, and wonder at the insanity of feeding superstition
to the place of significance. Any leader who does this must have lost the plot.
The church ran whole countries.
How do you unpick such authority over everyones lives from being in the Kingdom
and being outside.
The idea that certain concepts cannot be questioned or challenged, worked through
is the problem.
If you take the concept of an office or role makes someone holy or inspired or divine,
then one loses ones way. In catholicism, transubstantiation and mass become a different
thing than Jesus intended. It is the emotional symbolism, not the physical reality that
matters.
In Israel they turned the bronze snake into an idol, and it had to be destroyed.
So much in life is about not the rank or adulation people get, but the significance of how
they live. Once it becomes just ceremonies and superstition it has lost its meaning.
So the pope is the representative of the historical roman church, and summarises their
compromises and inspiration. But no matter how "nice" it may appear, venerating Mary
and her appearances just makes me stop, and wonder at the insanity of feeding superstition
to the place of significance. Any leader who does this must have lost the plot.
Why am I listening to these people?
Tell me your point.
I'm not Catholic but know their doctrine and have taught it.
I was trained by the RCC to teach what I did.
If you make a point I could answer.
BAPTISM DOES NOT SAVE.
it's an INITIATION into the Christian life.
As an adult one must CONTINUE in his faith or he is not saved.
This is common sense...
(but you're free to believe whom you will)
Tell me your point.
I'm not Catholic but know their doctrine and have taught it.
I was trained by the RCC to teach what I did.
If you make a point I could answer.
BAPTISM DOES NOT SAVE.
it's an INITIATION into the Christian life.
As an adult one must CONTINUE in his faith or he is not saved.
This is common sense...
(but you're free to believe whom you will)
God several times throughout Scripture says He will not share His glory,
while Catholics glorify, venerate, and adore Mary. Jesus did not once in
Scripture address Mary as His mother, but Catholics call her the mother
of humanity, and as if that were not enough, the queen of heaven. They
also call her the second Eve and there is no Biblical support for that.
Jesus said that anyone who did the will of God was His mother, His brother,
His sister. Jesus never elevated Mary above others, but Roman Catholics
feel a need to not just elevate Mary above others, but they put her on a par
with Jesus in terms of His sinlessness, (do you really think that she needed
to be sinless so that Jesus Christ could be sinless?). They are forced by
so-called infallible papal decree to accept the Marian dogmas of her bodily
assumption and immaculate conception, neither of which have any basis
whatsoever in Scripture.
Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven, yet they pray to Mary,
because their popes tell them to despite what Jesus explicitly instructed.
Scripture clearly states that there is one intercessor between God and man,
yet their popes, bishops, priests, parishioners etc, will tell you to pray to
Mary, and other dead people, for intercession. They fault those who do as
Jesus instructed, while they disobey Him to follow someone else instead.
We see nothing in Scripture to endorse her bodily assumption, her
perpetual virginity (Jesus had siblings after all, two of whom have
books in the Bible!), her immaculate conception. We see no need to
pray to her, or any ability on her part, as dead as she is believed to be,
to intercede on our behalf against the explicit words of Jesus in Scripture.
Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which
Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept: 1) Mary participates
in redemption with Jesus Christ; 2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the
intercession of Mary; and 3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through
Mary, who brings them to the attention of her Son. Scripture also tells us not
to call anyone Father but God, while they call many men "father" and blindly
follow them.
Roman Catholics believe that a fallible man is the Rock that Jesus is building
His Church on, not a confession of faith divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit of God,
despite a plethora of Scriptures that attest to the fact that God is the sole Rock
of our salvation. They teach purgatory, and many other things neither the apostles
nor Jesus ever taught. For instance, they claim priests must be celibate, when they
were not in the early church. Another example would be infant baptism, nowhere
promoted in Scripture. They burned people at the stake for daring to read the Bible,
which is what Scripture tells us to do. Despite all this, and more, the Catholic Church
considers herself the only valid expression of the community of God.
Question: "Are Catholic beliefs and practices biblical?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Biblical.html
Here are a couple of sites that detail some of the changing beliefs of the RCC:
Catholicism's Ever-Changing Doctrine
Doctrinal evolution: Roman Catholic doctrinal flip flops
while Catholics glorify, venerate, and adore Mary. Jesus did not once in
Scripture address Mary as His mother, but Catholics call her the mother
of humanity, and as if that were not enough, the queen of heaven. They
also call her the second Eve and there is no Biblical support for that.
Jesus said that anyone who did the will of God was His mother, His brother,
His sister. Jesus never elevated Mary above others, but Roman Catholics
feel a need to not just elevate Mary above others, but they put her on a par
with Jesus in terms of His sinlessness, (do you really think that she needed
to be sinless so that Jesus Christ could be sinless?). They are forced by
so-called infallible papal decree to accept the Marian dogmas of her bodily
assumption and immaculate conception, neither of which have any basis
whatsoever in Scripture.
Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven, yet they pray to Mary,
because their popes tell them to despite what Jesus explicitly instructed.
Scripture clearly states that there is one intercessor between God and man,
yet their popes, bishops, priests, parishioners etc, will tell you to pray to
Mary, and other dead people, for intercession. They fault those who do as
Jesus instructed, while they disobey Him to follow someone else instead.
We see nothing in Scripture to endorse her bodily assumption, her
perpetual virginity (Jesus had siblings after all, two of whom have
books in the Bible!), her immaculate conception. We see no need to
pray to her, or any ability on her part, as dead as she is believed to be,
to intercede on our behalf against the explicit words of Jesus in Scripture.
Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which
Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept: 1) Mary participates
in redemption with Jesus Christ; 2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the
intercession of Mary; and 3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through
Mary, who brings them to the attention of her Son. Scripture also tells us not
to call anyone Father but God, while they call many men "father" and blindly
follow them.
Roman Catholics believe that a fallible man is the Rock that Jesus is building
His Church on, not a confession of faith divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit of God,
despite a plethora of Scriptures that attest to the fact that God is the sole Rock
of our salvation. They teach purgatory, and many other things neither the apostles
nor Jesus ever taught. For instance, they claim priests must be celibate, when they
were not in the early church. Another example would be infant baptism, nowhere
promoted in Scripture. They burned people at the stake for daring to read the Bible,
which is what Scripture tells us to do. Despite all this, and more, the Catholic Church
considers herself the only valid expression of the community of God.
Question: "Are Catholic beliefs and practices biblical?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Biblical.html
Here are a couple of sites that detail some of the changing beliefs of the RCC:
Catholicism's Ever-Changing Doctrine
Doctrinal evolution: Roman Catholic doctrinal flip flops
With the Roman Catholic Church,and Scientology,and Christian Science,and the new age movement with their occult interpretation of the Bible,that can be so off base concerning the Bible,gives testimony that many people want to hear things the way they want to hear things,for they plainly ignore scriptures that are self explanatory,or make them out to be something different,and the Catholic Church involves too much the working of people in the process of salvation,like the Pope,and Mary,and the priest,and too much rituals in the process of salvation.
People hear things the way the want to hear things,and it is like 2+2=4,that is simple,easy to understand,but people are arguing it means 3,or 5,or 6,or some other number.
How come people do not have so many different interpretations when it comes to the Quran,or Buddhism,or Hinduism,or any other religion,for sure there can be a few different interpretations of other religions,but not like the Bible.
The Bible is the most misinterpreted book in the history of mankind,for so many people believe it,other religions believe it,even Muslims,but think some is the work of man,some believe it has partial truth,so many people believe it even if they do not believe all of it,even occultists believe it,and with all those people of the world,and their beliefs,they are dragging them in to the Bible,and interpretating them like that.
The Roman Catholic Church did not get rid of the pagan ways of the Roman Empire,and dragged them in to the Bible,and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.
Many different beliefs of people that are not part of the Bible they drag in to the Bible,and it becomes their foundation for interpretating scriptures,so they are blind by that belief that is not part of the Bible,from correctly seeing the truth of the Bible,and sometimes write a book and say it is inspired by God to further put forth their belief mingled with the Bible,like the Mormon Church and Jesus coming to America.
People hear things the way the want to hear things,and it is like 2+2=4,that is simple,easy to understand,but people are arguing it means 3,or 5,or 6,or some other number.
How come people do not have so many different interpretations when it comes to the Quran,or Buddhism,or Hinduism,or any other religion,for sure there can be a few different interpretations of other religions,but not like the Bible.
The Bible is the most misinterpreted book in the history of mankind,for so many people believe it,other religions believe it,even Muslims,but think some is the work of man,some believe it has partial truth,so many people believe it even if they do not believe all of it,even occultists believe it,and with all those people of the world,and their beliefs,they are dragging them in to the Bible,and interpretating them like that.
The Roman Catholic Church did not get rid of the pagan ways of the Roman Empire,and dragged them in to the Bible,and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.
Many different beliefs of people that are not part of the Bible they drag in to the Bible,and it becomes their foundation for interpretating scriptures,so they are blind by that belief that is not part of the Bible,from correctly seeing the truth of the Bible,and sometimes write a book and say it is inspired by God to further put forth their belief mingled with the Bible,like the Mormon Church and Jesus coming to America.
Test,
It's not because I think I know it all, but I really don't read links.
It's the thoughts of one particular person.
I'm Church trained by those theologians.
If you just tell me what it is you want to to get out of the link, we could talk better to each other.
I did look at the article and, frankly, I don't understan the point your trying to make.
I'm very bad with links.
Sorry.
It's not because I think I know it all, but I really don't read links.
It's the thoughts of one particular person.
I'm Church trained by those theologians.
If you just tell me what it is you want to to get out of the link, we could talk better to each other.
I did look at the article and, frankly, I don't understan the point your trying to make.
I'm very bad with links.
Sorry.
This is correct.
It is not taught that Mary should be worshipped.
ONLY GOD is worshipped.
Some Catholics do not know their faith.
It's unfortunate that adults do not have more teaching.
They also are not supposed to pray to saints.
Any prayer is for intercession since the believe in the communion of saints.
IOW, the dead are in "communion" --- NOT CONTACT --- with the living. It's one big family.
So, maybe they could intercede, but they're not supposed to be praying TO them.
It is not taught that Mary should be worshipped.
ONLY GOD is worshipped.
Some Catholics do not know their faith.
It's unfortunate that adults do not have more teaching.
They also are not supposed to pray to saints.
Any prayer is for intercession since the believe in the communion of saints.
IOW, the dead are in "communion" --- NOT CONTACT --- with the living. It's one big family.
So, maybe they could intercede, but they're not supposed to be praying TO them.