Not By Works

[Ariel82]

So anyway for those who care.,our new pastor preached this morning on the Great Commandment to love God and love one another....isn't that awesome?

God is good!

 

[Meggido]

Meggido....I still don't understand this part and believe it may be key in his whole theology...



I think he has two levels of "sin"...truthfully don't have the time to figure out his theology at this point in my life, but I don't think he teaches sinless perfection.

He doesn't believe in imputed righteousness of Christ and defines the word "Faith" as obedience, which tells me it will take hours of conversation to figure out where he got those ideas from.

He is just trying to prove how super spiritual he is....let it go...it is leaven...

 

[stonesoffire]

ct 15:3　 They were sent on their way by the church, and as they were going through Phoenicia and Samaria they told of the conversion of the gentiles and brought great joy to all the brothers.
　
Act 15:4　 When they arrived in Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church, the apostles, and the elders, and they reported everything that God had done through them.
　
Act 15:5　 But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The gentiles must be circumcised and ordered to keep the Law of Moses."　


Act 15:6　 So the apostles and the elders met to look into this claim.
　
Act 15:7　 After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and told them, "Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe.　


Act 15:8　 God, who knows everyone's heart, showed them he approved by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us.
　
Act 15:9　 He made no distinction between them and us, because of their faith-cleansed hearts.
　
Act 15:10　 So why do you test God by putting on the disciples' neck a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we could carry?　


Act 15:11　 We certainly believe that it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus, the Messiah, that we are saved, just as they are."　


Act 15:12　 The whole crowd was silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul tell about all the signs and wonders that God had done through them among the gentiles.　


Act 15:13　 After Paul and Barnabas had finished speaking, James responded, "Brothers, listen to me:
　
Act 15:14　 Simeon has explained how God first showed his concern for the gentiles by taking from among them a people for his name.　


Act 15:15　 This agrees with the words of the prophets. As it is written,　


Act 15:16　 '"After this, I will come back and set up David's fallen tent again. I will restore its ruined places and set it up again　


Act 15:17　 so that the rest of the people may search for the Lord, including all the gentiles who are called by my name," declares the Lord. 'He is the one who has been doing these things
　
Act 15:18　 that have been known from long ago.'
　
Act 15:19　 Therefore, I have decided that we should not trouble these gentiles who are turning to God.
　
Act 15:20　 Instead, we should write to them to keep away from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from anything strangled, and from blood.　


Act 15:21　 After all, Moses has had people to proclaim him in every city for generations, and on every Sabbath his books are read aloud in the synagogues."

 

[JIMBO43]

Hey how about go and tell my Christian foster dad who sexually abused me when my mum through me out when I was 14.

Hey how about you go and tell my mum that when she beat me silly and gave me black eyes as her fists rained down on my face.

Hey how about telling my real dad whose only memory I have is him breaking into our flat in Scotland and going to hit my mum who ducked and he knocked me out and was in hospital for weeks.


Hey how about you tell that to the CID who came round and asked me if my Foster dad was sexually abusing me and I said no because the other choices of going back to my mum or going into a foster home.

Hey about telling my mum when I was in hospital and was minutes away from death and my mum wouldn't visit and say I hope he dies.

Hey tell them all it want their fault and it's all mine.

Oh well now I know who's fault it is. Obviously mine.

Billy im going to share something with you now.. I met a person who had the spirit and he lifted my possession ,,, the possesion was there the spirt came out of me and then went back in.. he saw the possesion in me... This real billy lad...

ive been singing all day driving and being happy.. at one time billy i was in tears coz my traumas amd my heart is deeply effected... i have a complex post traumatic stress disorder ,, which is multiple trauma disorder... more than one..

traumas that would make you scared of the outdoors traumas that would make you crap your pants when theres a knock on the door that brings the traumas back..

On top of that i have suffered with sever anxiet attacks enough that would make you fall down to the ground (ie your knees go week and suffer a severe breathing attack.. it starts with a flush normall for me and my legs go week.. then i collaspe..


there still deep rooted and are trying to come out... they cant...

A multiple complex disorder is when trumas has happend a long time ago but are now only just starting to come out to the service theyve been hidden burries coz you couldnt deal with them..

This in medical terms is called the mind putting that memory in reserve and only letting it release when it feals it has to or your always going to suffer..

Sadly billy lad this is lifetime suffering ill call it and not an illnes..... same for you your anxiety is an illness but more of a suffering..

I have many tricks to beet it which i would be happy to share with and the first is singing this song as loud as possible all day over and over with heart whilst driving

[video=youtube;YRV9rqubkPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRV9rqubkPE[/video]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It shows a stark difference in how and why we defend things,

the worlds wants religious tolerance, to say what makes your way right and my way wrong, it would have been easy for Daniels three friends to say what could it hurt if I just bow down, I can still worship my God and still live, if I die, and can't serve god so I will sin and die,

if if they did, they would hav destroyed their testimony, imagine if we did that to tolerate, and say yes, your way is ok too, to say that, Jesus would be seen as a liar that can not be trusted for he sad he is the only way to the father, there is no other way. god would be seemn as evil, fr jesus on that night, said father if there be any other way, let this cup pass, the fathers reply? Well yea, there are other ways to heaven, but I am going to sacrifice you anyway,

so when people say say there are other ways to heaven? I do not have to agree, but I need to love them,

but as jesus example with the Pharisee, if they try to bring god, or christs name into it, I not only have an obligation, but a right to step in, otherwise again, I am showing tolerance,

even though they followed the same bible, supposedly worshiped the same god, and considered the temple their fathers house,

Jesus did not have to say they were his brother. Their way was right, or they were both believers, he shut them down, he loves bed them, but when they tried to get in the way, he shut him down.

in the same token, I do not have to agree with people who say the cross is not enough, that we have to work to maintain salvation, or call them my brother or sister, I have to right to defend Gods gospel, and not be tolerant, the example of bill and his struggles, and the man condemning mailmandan to hell because he worked Saturday is just part of the reason

we we have to learn how to be tolerant, yet not cause the word of God and his gospel and the testimony of such tobe destroyed.

 

[Ariel82]

The difference EG is ....are we talking to the person or to the audience?

Do we treat our enemies different than we treat our brethren?

I do...I am nicer to my enemies.

 

[FranC]

Faith means believing, trusting, relying and obedience which follows and is produced out of faith is works. Accomplishing multiple acts of obedience throughout our lifetime is a manifestation of our faith, but not the origin of it.

If someone died the same day that they genuinely placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (like the thief on the cross) and was unable to accomplish multiple acts of obedience afterwards (the thief was not even able to get water baptized prior to his death on the same day of his conversion) yet he still had faith.

You couldn't say that the thief did not accomplish multiple acts of obedience before he died and faith is in essence, multiple acts of obedience, so the thief did not have faith.

Hey MMD,

Need we say silly things?
I'm sorry, but your Whole thread is kind of silly.

Do you know Christ or not???
Then why do you say such stuff???

Here's what I'd like to see...

YOU admit that works are a necessary component to being Christian, instead of explaining WHY
you do these good works --- as if they weren't REALLY necessary.

Are you a friend of Jesus?
Then you MUST follow His commandments.
John...

 

[JIMBO43]

Why? To what end? What can fear accomplish that love cannot for the believer?

If you fear God from time to time your not saved in my book coz if your going to say you never sin then that is what you might as well be saying..

coz when i get tempted to sin i fear the lord ........




ARE YOU SAYING YOU NEVER GET TEMPTED...COZ EVIDENTLY YOUR SAYING THAT YOU DONT FEAR THE LORD NEVER

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The difference EG is ....are we talking to the person or to the audience?

if there are two of us talking and no one else hears or would be affected, love, agree to disagree, even say you can not agree,

if ither peopl can hear hear or be affected, how did Jesus react?

 

[Ariel82]

Hey MMD,

Need we say silly things?
I'm sorry, but your Whole thread is kind of silly.

Do you know Christ or not???
Then why do you say such stuff???

Here's what I'd like to see...

YOU admit that works are a necessary component to being Christian, instead of explaining WHY
you do these good works --- as if they weren't REALLY necessary.

Are you a friend of Jesus?
Then you MUST follow His commandments.
John...

What happens if you don't?

 

[FranC]

But that is the problem with some people is they think they are spiritual,and right with God,when they engage in sin,but to be carnally minded is death,but to be spiritually minded is life,and those led of the Spirit,do not want sin,and can abstain from sin,that is why they are led of the Spirit,and only then are we spiritual,for if we sin then we are being carnal at the time,and operating by the flesh,until we get rid of the sin.

But they think they are spiritual minded,spiritual,led by the Spirit,even when they engage in sin,which is why they say sin does not affect their relationship with God,which I want to be serious,and not dog them out,but that is hysterical laughter time.

That does not make sense for God said,do not err concerning this,blessed is the person that endures temptation,and does not sin,for then they will receive the crown of life,given to all the saints who love Christ,so this is eternal life.Blessed is those who do not sin.

And some have form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,ever learning,but never coming to the truth that sin does affect their relationship with God,which is why it mentions sins in their life,but they think they are alright with God.

We are not spiritual when we sin,and we are not spiritual until we give up the sin,and we might sin,but then we are back to carnally minded,and under the law,until we repent of it,not want sin,and allow the Spirit to lead us,and then we are spiritual,and not under the law.

We can be forgiven of all sins,and someone led of the Spirit can sin,but it is because they want to sin,but we cannot say we are spiritual even when we sin,and that sin does not affect our relationship with God,whoops,I spit my milk on the computer.I have to stop bringing that up,because it is so funny,for it does not make sense.

Are you saying one could be carnally minded one day and spiritually minded the next and then carnally minded the next and so on?

It does sound like you're saying this. If you mean that one must have both feet in the Kingdom, that's a bit different.

Also, when you say we could abstain from sin it does sound like you're saying that we could not sin.
Without taking away the victory over satan and sin, we do have to admit that we can sin and that we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus.

I think most times it's just words and the way we use them that could create some misunderstanding and makes us take "sides".

John said that those who love God do not sin. What did he mean?

 

[JIMBO43]

Originally Posted by BillG Hey how about go and tell my Christian foster dad who sexually abused me when my mum through me out when I was 14.

Hey how about you go and tell my mum that when she beat me silly and gave me black eyes as her fists rained down on my face.

Hey how about telling my real dad whose only memory I have is him breaking into our flat in Scotland and going to hit my mum who ducked and he knocked me out and was in hospital for weeks.


Hey how about you tell that to the CID who came round and asked me if my Foster dad was sexually abusing me and I said no because the other choices of going back to my mum or going into a foster home.

Hey about telling my mum when I was in hospital and was minutes away from death and my mum wouldn't visit and say I hope he dies.

Hey tell them all it want their fault and it's all mine.

Oh well now I know who's fault it is. Obviously mine.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill,
He said the person who put you through this will be judged accordingly.
Not that it's your fault. Which, of course it isn't.
You know whose fault it is. The evil one and those who listen to him.

We sure aren't in heaven here, are we?
Let's thank God that we know Him and for all the good things we have.
Praising Him for the positive makes us forget the negative -- but it does
rear its ugly head every now and then, doesn't it.

Remember to pray for my Elena.
I love how you pray.

Tomorrow...
Happy Sonday !

amen sister and well said... i dont how i made him think that all this was his fault

 

[Ariel82]

If you fear God from time to time your not saved in my book coz if your going to say you never sin then that is what you might as well be saying..

coz when i get tempted to sin i fear the lord ........




ARE YOU SAYING YOU NEVER GET TEMPTED...COZ EVIDENTLY YOUR SAYING THAT YOU DONT FEAR THE LORD NEVER

I think she is saying that love motivates her and not fear to keep her from sinning...

Hoping she is saying that love shows her how sin hurts others and keeps her from doing it.

 

[JIMBO43]

Thanks bro, thanks for not attacking and just loving.

You have made me well up

Is this the im the good brother comment after just totaly rippping me apart with quite savage blows ?


You know this is what happens when you havent forgiven people or havent been forgiven...........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey MMD,

Need we say silly things?
I'm sorry, but your Whole thread is kind of silly.

Do you know Christ or not???
Then why do you say such stuff???

Here's what I'd like to see...

YOU admit that works are a necessary component to being Christian, instead of explaining WHY
you do these good works --- as if they weren't REALLY necessary.

Are you a friend of Jesus?
Then you MUST follow His commandments.
John...

Why would MMD or anyone else admit that, that would be lik saying everything they stand for is wrong, that the gospel they preach is wrong, that the cross is not enough, that we can earn our salvation,

and demanding we we must admit that works are required or we do not know Christ, wow, that is just so typical

You asking us to admit that works are required,and not like we say, an automatic response, is no different that we asking you t admit you are trying to earn your salvation. Yet you do not like that do you?

 

[JIMBO43]

If you do not fear God from time to time your not saved in my book coz if your going to say you never sin then that is what you might as well be saying..

coz when i get tempted to sin i fear the lord ........




ARE YOU SAYING YOU NEVER GET TEMPTED...COZ EVIDENTLY YOUR SAYING THAT YOU DONT FEAR THE LORD NEVER

oops If you do not fear God from time to time your not saved in my book

 

[JIMBO43]

Well said!

Those that live with the Old Testament mindset still operate from that understanding of the fear of the Lord and mix up the 2 covenants and thus as Jesus said - a little leaven ruins the whole lump. In the New Covenant things have changed. We love because He first loved us.

In the New Covenant we have better promises and the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of better things.

We have reverence and awe when we see the grace and love our Lord and our loving Father have for us. It is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance - to change our mind on how we think on things - to agree with what Jesus has done and to rely on His finished work alone for life and living and He alone is our righteousness.

Romans 8:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

[SUP]16 [/SUP] The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,


View attachment 171573

so just answer this question are you saying its wrong to fear the lord and that you should never fear the lord ? jts answer yes or no please... just for the record..as evidently you also think along with others that we should not hope for salvation either..

 

[UnderGrace]

I guess you missed this simple truth of the new life in Jesus....

“When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, He frees him from his natural bondage under sin; and, by His grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good…” (Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter IX, “Of Free Will”) 1646


Heb4:16 Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Tit.2:11-12 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.

If you fear God from time to time your not saved in my book coz if your going to say you never sin then that is what you might as well be saying..

coz when i get tempted to sin i fear the lord ........




ARE YOU SAYING YOU NEVER GET TEMPTED...COZ EVIDENTLY YOUR SAYING THAT YOU DONT FEAR THE LORD NEVER

 

[BillG]

I pray that God heals your asthma; my wife has it too, but we are healed with His stripes and His body was broken for our healing; be healed in Jesus name. If it is delayed wait for it; His delays are not necessarily denials. In the mean time, like Paul said "His grace is enough for us."

Amen and we ask this in Jesus name.

 

[JIMBO43]

I guess you missed this simple truth of the new life in Jesus....

I didnt miss anything sister i know Jesus will love is sheep.. however sister that doesnt stop you being tempted into sin..

are you still staying you never get tempted then we can move on