Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

Willy

Why did the council at Jerusalem come to the conclusion about gentiles that they only should keep themselves from meat sacrificed to idols, and blood...there's more to the scripture but am posting from memory here.

Why not teach the gentiles the Jewish moral laws?

 

[stonesoffire]

Job was repenting of his sins of ignorance that God revealed to him, (chastisement) he was not repenting of the vile sins of the flesh that he engaged not in...God does not chastise for willful rebellion, but rather has the Spirit convict 24/7...

Who do you think of this forum is committing vile sins of the flesh? I think most are speaking about faults, and calling it sins.

Like arguing...fleshly.

 

[Meggido]

Book marked them alongside others I have book marked in bible app.

I took my daughter to look at Bournemouth university.
Interesting because Bournemouth is where I lived with foster parents and that's when it all started.
Anyway once again thank you for posting the verses.

Sounds awesome!

The Lord will keep you in perfect peace and he will rescue your mind to come into alignment and agreement with your spirit and there will be no anxiety that is too great, for the power of the Spirit is working on your behalf, and is restoring that, which the enemy, has tried to steal, kill and destroy in your mind, spirit and body . You will drink the water and eat the cake as Elijah did during his rest and when you are revived you will run for 40 days and not be weary....and climb the mountain to hear the still, small voice telling you...you are mine!

 

[dcontroversal]

Job was repenting of his sins of ignorance that God revealed to him, (chastisement) he was not repenting of the vile sins of the flesh that he engaged not in...God does not chastise for willful rebellion, but rather has the Spirit convict 24/7...

SIN is SIN is SIN.....your quantification and qualification of sin proves that you do not understand sin.....and ALL SIN has been dealt with at the cross....JESUS paid for the SINS of the WHOLE WORLD and if YOU break one of the LEAST of the COMMANDMENTS you are JUST AS GUILTY as a murderer, adulterer, liar, thief, idolater.....

WAKE up pal.....there is no such thing as a division of sins......ONE sin regardless of qualification = a SIN period!

and WHILE I am there....ALL SIN is BY CHOICE from the FIRST to the LAST....these so called VILE SINS of the FLESH is about as false as LUCIFER SAVES......ALL SIN is of the FLESH and comes FROM THE FLESH regardless of your qualification and quantification of SIN......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi EG,

Sorry, I just saw this. It just popped up when I logged on.
It must be a message from God!

I read your post twice. I think I saw almost everything PHart wrote.
It seemed to me like your responses were a bit harsh and I'll tell you why.

This bothered you:

PHart said:
I understand your confusion. You and countless others have been indoctrinated by the church.

I don't think he came here with an attitude. It seems to me that he was trying really hard to make a point and no one seemed to be listening. He feels that no one was understanding him because they "are indoctrinated by the church". It's his prerogative to believe this if he wants to. I don't see why this statement would bother you so much. It was just necessary that you reply that you were NOT endoctrinated by a church, instead of becoming upset.

If we want to think about it, this comment does not breed confrontation but conversation. I think that sometimes guys do this... they feel confronted when actually they are not. Women are less likely to feel this way.


Then you were bothered by this comment:

PHart said:
And, again, you simply can not hear what is being argued.

See. This only proves what I said above. He felt that no one was either listening to him or understanding him.
You youself said that the rest of his comment was fine. So, let a sentence go, for goodness sake. Was it Worth it for hm to leave? Personally I think he added a touch of seriousness and was happy to have him here.

We do need to listen to each other better. I also feel that no one here (on your "side", sorry to have to say it that way)
really understands what I'm saying. I keep being told I don't have the Holy Spirit... (not necessarily by you).

Then you go on to say how he was accusing people here of having dead faith.
He did attempt to explain what he meant by that.

have I not been accused many times of being a "worker for" "cake taker" being lost, going to hell, not having the Holy Spirit?

You see. It goes both ways.

I try to just stick to what is being discussed without getting all personal about anything. Sometimes we go ovef-board. OK. We're only human. But we should Always show love to our brothers.

I'm not blaming you for what happened. I think maybe you're a bit to sensitive??? I don't know. I don't know you that well.

ALL OF US should listen very carefully as to what is being said.

Love in Christ

Hey fran, you wrong, and here is why,


his whole hole argument is he s right, and we are wrong, we could say he has been indoctrinated also, but what good would that do? We could also say he s not hearing my what was being argued, but what good Would that do?

t is not going to do any good, all it does is make you or whoever says look arrogant, and boast of himself.

Then again, I kind of figured you would stick up for him, that's fine too, just showed me where you are,

I have never seen more people excuse other peoples sin or ignore it like I Have in here,it's nuts, but I think it just shows what is wrong with the church, and the world today

 

[Burninglight]

I wonder haw many would remain as faithful and perfect as Job after suffering the same afflictions. i often ask this question of myself....be blessed

....

Judging from your comment, I would guess way more than you think. In that case, you would be very surprised.

 

[PeterJens]

What have they said to make you feel this way? Did you know you can tell more about a person from what they say about others than what others say about them. Your judgment seems harsh; I don't understand it. What have they said or done to you or others for that matter to justify your comments; so far, I haven't seen them say anything that was unscriptural; what have you seen that I didn't see? Please explain your rationale.

I am not being harsh, I am telling what people has said and done.

You will notice some will just accuse, without any explanation. Or they will
say something with a slant. Some have boasted about their ability to do this.
So it does not matter, but it is a tactic of some. But as Jesus says, we are
to turn the other cheek and love them despite their efforts, because it is not
an issue.

 

[blue_ladybug]

....................

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would stand with Bill or EG any day......to the bitter end......it takes guts to confess your difficulties in an open forum like this......and then like sharks coming up from the deep...........tragic for sure....

its ok bud, they are not people worthy of respect anyway , that can not hurt us, we consider the source. Or at least I do, I am used too the attack of he legalists, I feel sorry for them because no matter how much you struggle. Have something I doubt they have found yet,

 

[Burninglight]

SIN is SIN is SIN.....your quantification and qualification of sin proves that you do not understand sin.....and ALL SIN has been dealt with at the cross....JESUS paid for the SINS of the WHOLE WORLD and if YOU break one of the LEAST of the COMMANDMENTS you are JUST AS GUILTY as a murderer, adulterer, liar, thief, idolater.....

WAKE up pal.....there is no such thing as a division of sins......ONE sin regardless of qualification = a SIN period!

and WHILE I am there....ALL SIN is BY CHOICE from the FIRST to the LAST....these so called VILE SINS of the FLESH is about as false as LUCIFER SAVES......ALL SIN is of the FLESH and comes FROM THE FLESH regardless of your qualification and quantification of SIN......

I am compelled to agree. Sin is anything that separates us from God. What difference does it make if it is willful or sins of ignorance? Anything that separates us from God is evil (sin) and a near miss is as good as a mile.

 

[willybob]

for willy..

~Isa_54:17
　 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

Rom 4:23　 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
　

Rom 4:24
　 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Luk_8:46　 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

Add virtue to our faith...one place and in another? All of the divine is given unto us by the Spirit. We have all we need "in Him". Then we walk in it after we sit down with Him in those heavenly places.

It's not nice to post only parts of scripture.


　

impute is a layers reformation term.... I think Tyndale only used it once,maybe twice, (In my opinion, the word imputed is of a poor translation, the word reckoned which is used many times in the same context is a much better translation) it is not a magical transfer, but rather what is reckoned righteous by faith in the eyes of the Lord...Abraham preformed the deeds of faith and it was reckoned/numbered/counted as/imputed to be righteous.....The bible also speaks of imputed sin, it dosent mean that sin was magically imputed to someone, it means that their sinful ways were reckoned as sin.....

false prophets love the imputed word because they can use it to deceive the ignorant ones that are following after them..The dont like using the term reckoned because others might reflect upon being reckoned worthy.....Don't be beguiled by the miss use of the fancy lawyer term "imputed righteousness" the text dosent mean what they claim it to mean...as I have said on many occasions, there is not one example of righteousness being transferred to anyone in the text, all of the faithful ones were declared to be righteous because of the righteous deeds they did form heart purity seeking to be obedient to God...Able was declared to be righteous by his works of righteousness...Self-righteousness is seeking to do what is right on behalf of ones self gratifications, it pleases the flesh ego, this righteousness will always fail.....However, true righteousness comes from a pure heart seeking to please God, of such God will not reject.................be blessed

 

[Grace777x70]

Looks like it is time for "scripture" again in the area of righteousness. Why do people fight so much against the work of Christ and instead live by their own humanistic thoughts? Why don't we believe in Christ? Why are we continually denying Him?

I can give you guys what the scriptures say about righteousness and believers that are "in Christ" now. Everyone can believe what they want too.

The understanding of the new creation in Christ and the new identity of the believer is paramount to living the true Christian life.


Here it says our spirit ( the inner person that is a new creation in Christ ) is alive because of righteousness that it is it.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Here righteousness is a gift - you don't earn it.

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

We have grace reigning in our lives because of righteousness in us.

Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here righteousness comes by faith.

Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Here when we believe - we are righteousness.

Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We are in the kingdom of God.

Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Believers are called righteousness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Here it is saying that "righteousness comes by Christ".

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Here we have the breastplate of righteousness - which is the armor of God that we are to be strong in.

Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, andhaving on the breastplate of righteousness;

This talks about the new man in Christ - the new creation.

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Ok..that's enough..there are tons more....

 

[Grace777x70]

The righteous in Christ live by faith in what He has done and are "believers" in Him.

Notice that in the gospel message - "it is the righteousness of God that is revealed".

Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)

[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Romans 10:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, ( by their own good works ) they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

 

[Grace777x70]

Ok...I can't help myself - Here are more scriptures about the "righteousness of God in Christ given to us who believe." - not to those who create and try to maintain their own righteousness.

We that are in Christ have the Lord's righteousness now in our inner man that is in Christ.

This truth is a major stumbling block to all those of us that think we create our own righteousness and stand on that like it was in the Old Covenant.

Isaiah 45:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory."

Here is one more from the OT - Isaiah 54: 17 of the Lord telling what the believer would have because of what Christ did in Isaiah 53 when He died on the cross to take away our sin and make us righteous in Him.

Isaiah 54:17

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me," declares the LORD.

Folks we have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ!

Ephesians 3:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,

 

[dcontroversal]

Looks like it is time for "scripture" again in the area of righteousness. Why do people fight so much against the work of Christ and instead live by their own humanistic thoughts? Why don't we believe in Christ? Why are we continually denying Him?

I can give you guys what the scriptures say about righteousness and believers that are "in Christ" now. Everyone can believe what they want too.

The understanding of the new creation in Christ and the new identity of the believer is paramount to living the true Christian life.


Here it says our spirit ( the inner person that is a new creation in Christ ) is alive because of righteousness that it is it.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Here righteousness is a gift - you don't earn it.

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

We have grace reigning in our lives because of righteousness in us.

Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here righteousness comes by faith.

Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Here when we believe - we are righteousness.

Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We are in the kingdom of God.

Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Believers are called righteousness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Here it is saying that "righteousness comes by Christ".

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Here we have the breastplate of righteousness - which is the armor of God that we are to be strong in.

Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, andhaving on the breastplate of righteousness;

This talks about the new man in Christ - the new creation.

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Ok..that's enough..there are tons more....

AMEN and DAVID also describe accurately the blessedness of the man to whom God IMPUTES RIGHTEOUSNESS by FAITH without the deeds of the LAW (WORKS)

SPONGEBOB denies this and states there is NOT ONE account of this in scripture.......SEEMS he cannot read or just sweeps this under the rug in favor of his "CAINOLOGY" I guess.....

 

[BillG]

On the anxiety issue, years ago I used to do door to door with a brother who had
panic attacks occasionally from how he had been brought up. It was from being
locked in a room as punishment.

What has surprised me is how widespread this experience actually is.

We are actually quite fragile, but want to appear as in control, defended and ok.
It is something that struck me about kids going from 16 years old to 18 years old.
Some never make the transition into adulthood.

I want to see this fragility met by the Lord and want to discover how to help
people experience this for themselves.

I know deep psychological structural changes in some people limit the possible,
but I know Christs love and healing overcomes many things and can work amazingly
in some peoples lives. So this is my passion, to see whole loving people walking
as bright lights in this world of darkness because of the treasure Jesus has put there.

I hope this is our shared goal, but I know some do not share this vision or even believe
it is either possible or worthwhile or even part of the gospel.

But that is my learning experience, but it does not change my desire to see more of
Christs work in us come to fruition.

In a broken world anxiety is a big issue. And it affects believers and non believers.
Fellow believers should recognise this.

We are fragile and let's be honest as believers we are less likely to open up because what others would say.
Things like lack of faith, sin, unforgiveness and so on.

So we shut up shop and look like we have it all together as people.

Some things may be correct but even have said that anxiety can still persist even if we have forgiven, have faith in Jesus and walk in the ways he has asked us to.

Often the case is with someone whom suffers with Generalised Anxiety Disorder have no idea what the drivers are.
So in the secular sense it's either medication or secular counselling like CBT.

I know of Christian's who suffer with GAD/Depression who take medication and to be honest I don't have an issue with it.

Also we need to be very careful as believers how we counsel others with GAD.

I was left in a worse position when I went to Christian counsellor than I was before I started.


One thing is true though and that is Jesus.
He is constant, he is faithful, he is loving and he is the one who can bring healing.


Psalms 147:3
He heals the brokenhearted
And binds up their wounds.

My grand point in preaching is to break the hard heart, and to heal the broken one.” ~ John Newton

God bless you my friend

 

[stonesoffire]

Amen Grace...if it isn't of Holy Spirit working in our life...it's our own trying to please God. Faith is what He desires and we obey by believing, then we do. If He is requiring a do.

 

[Burninglight]

I am not being harsh, I am telling what people has said and done.

You will notice some will just accuse, without any explanation. Or they will
say something with a slant. Some have boasted about their ability to do this.
So it does not matter, but it is a tactic of some. But as Jesus says, we are
to turn the other cheek and love them despite their efforts, because it is not
an issue.

Yes, I agree with turn the other cheek. You know, sometimes I get smacked by Christians when I think I didn't deserve it, and I turned the other cheek; it was a really good thing I did that, because it turned out that I deserved the smack I got.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Thank you for the rep, EG..

 

[UnderGrace]

Amen and Amen!! Such good news for us!
Makes my heart sing.

The righteous in Christ live by faith in what He has done and are "believers" in Him.

Notice that in the gospel message - "it is the righteousness of God that is revealed".

Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)

[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Romans 10:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, ( by their own good works ) they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.