You would do well to recognize that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD was the big event that pretty much every OT and NT prophet spoke of. It was the "days of vengeance" and the "wrath of the Lamb." It was the "great tribulation" spoken of by Jesus and it was the "time of trouble" spoken of in Dan 12 and the desolation of Dan 9.
The Rapture
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While I'm sure you see it that way, I hope that if I can be shown that I am wrong from the scriptures, I will have the humility to change what I believe.
Time will tell, PlainWord. And just maybe not much more time.
We'll see.
Time will tell, PlainWord. And just maybe not much more time.
We'll see.
I'm confident that one day you WILL "see the light".
Obviously, I do not agree.
I'm firmly convinced that Preterism is false, that there will be a 7 year tribulation, that there will be a literal 1000 year kingdom with Christ reigning on the earth from Jerusalem, and then a new, everlasting heaven and earth.
Time will tell.
I should have said SOME gentiles. Many will die.
And not everyone will need to flee Judea. Only those IN Judea will need to flee Judea.
Matt 24:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
hmmm, I see this glaring problem. On the one hand:
Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
on the other hand:
Luke 17 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Now, who is confused here?
Jesus?
Or, Ahwatukee, Shrume, VCO, and Issachar?
Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
on the other hand:
Luke 17 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Now, who is confused here?
Jesus?
Or, Ahwatukee, Shrume, VCO, and Issachar?
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Shrume,
Christ was revealed as a bright light, just as God often times revealed Himself in the OT.
After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory.
This Light?
“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
This Light?
at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me.
According to Josephus, they indeed "saw the Light."
at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour.
Everybody saw it.
There was. Vespasian surrounded the city in 66 AD. In the middle of the 7 years, the temple and city were destroyed. The war ended in 73 AD when Titus broke through at Masada.
This idea contradicts scripture. The Kingdom does not come with observation. Also, Acts 7 makes clear that God will never dwell in a temple made with hands. He reigns from Heaven.
‘Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool. What house will you build for Me? says the Lord, Or what is the place of My rest?
Christ was given the Kingdom upon His ascension as recorded in Dan 7.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.
He is the chief cornerstone of the spiritual temple of which we are all a part. Paul teaches this over and over again.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:“I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.”
We can see clearly that we are already the Temple of God and that God dwells in us. The bigger spiritual lessons in the NT concerning these things is often lost on the pre-trib futurist.
I'm confident that one day you WILL "see the light".
After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory.
This Light?
“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
This Light?
at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me.
According to Josephus, they indeed "saw the Light."
at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour.
Everybody saw it.
There was. Vespasian surrounded the city in 66 AD. In the middle of the 7 years, the temple and city were destroyed. The war ended in 73 AD when Titus broke through at Masada.
This idea contradicts scripture. The Kingdom does not come with observation. Also, Acts 7 makes clear that God will never dwell in a temple made with hands. He reigns from Heaven.
‘Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool. What house will you build for Me? says the Lord, Or what is the place of My rest?
Christ was given the Kingdom upon His ascension as recorded in Dan 7.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.
He is the chief cornerstone of the spiritual temple of which we are all a part. Paul teaches this over and over again.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:“I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.”
We can see clearly that we are already the Temple of God and that God dwells in us. The bigger spiritual lessons in the NT concerning these things is often lost on the pre-trib futurist.
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Obviously you guys are the ones confused. I'm guessing none of you are historians or read much about the history of that period. Issachar speaks of Josephus with contempt when really he simply verified all the things Jesus said of the great tribulation and beginnings of sorrows era.
In Mat 24:16, the 144,000 Jewish Christians fled over the hills to Pella after Vespasian left Jerusalem to return to Rome to become emperor and before Titus came to lay siege the city.
The Luke 17:33 passage is unrelated to the fleeing of the Jewish Christians.
In Mat 24:16, the 144,000 Jewish Christians fled over the hills to Pella after Vespasian left Jerusalem to return to Rome to become emperor and before Titus came to lay siege the city.
The Luke 17:33 passage is unrelated to the fleeing of the Jewish Christians.
PW, if that was true, Christ would be here now and we would be living in the millennial kingdom, of which no matter how much you proclaim it, we are not currently living in that age. Not to mention that the scriptures are clear in that when He returns to the earth to end the age, every eye will see Him, and not as a great light, but in the same body that He resurrected and ascended in.
As further proof that Jesus has not yet returned, the world would have experienced the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which are the wrath of God. And we most definitely have not experienced the worst time in history.
Nor have we seen the antichrist/beast, the abomination, the image of the beast, nor his mark, so that without it no one would be able to buy or sell.
The only way that you can get fulfillment of all of those events above and more, is to spiritualize the heck out of them, so that you completely remove the literal meaning from scripture.
Armageddon would have also had to have taken place, where all of the kings of the earth, their generals and armies, would have been gathered together to be killed by that double-edged sword, with the birds gorging themselves on their flesh (Rev.19:11-21). When did that happen? That would be, NEVER!
When were the beast and the false prophet thrown alive into the lake of fire? That would be, NEVER!
So true is the word of God which says:
"The days are coming when mankind will not put up with sound doctrine. But to suit their own desires, they will gather around themselves teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will abandon the truth and turn aside to myths."
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I'm beginning to like you. Yes, there are similarities between the unbelieving Jews of Christ day and our futurist rapture friends. They too are looking for Messiah to come and reign on earth missing the spiritual nature of His reign which began in 70 AD and continues without ending.
. Yes, there are similarities between the unbelieving Jews of Christ day and our futurist rapture friends. They too are looking for Messiah to come and reign on earth missing the spiritual nature of His reign which began in 70 AD and continues without ending.
Haven't you even wondered why that verse is at the Bottom of every one of my Posts?
As far as I am concerned, that is the GREATEST Pre-Trib Bible verse there is.
It is all about His APPEARING, not HIS Second COMING. He Appears in the Clouds and sends the Archangel to CALL OUT HIS BRIDE, before the Antichrist orchestrates the Seven Year Covenant (Peace Treaty) with Israel and her enemies, Dan. 9:27.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Revelation 3:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
I know that I've already asked once, but I did not receive an understandable answer. I can find lots of verses for a pretrib rapture...I find none for a midtrib rapture. and only verses that talk about the second coming at Post trib....So....What's the problem people seem to be having with a pretrib rapture? And please prove your fascination with a mid trib or a post trib as you believe...Can do? Or do I stay Pretrib?
Listen, it does not matter if the Daniel 70th week is on pause or not, it dont matter one bit when it comes to end times. You can claim every single old testament prophecy is fulfilled and that still wouldn't get rid of the end times tribulation, ITS THERE in the book of Revelation which is written in 90A.D. btw, oops.
Also here is the kicker: Jesus never said that the Jews were wrong in expecting an earthly kingdom, Peter asked this very question in Acts 1 and Jesus didnt say nah forget that old judaism stuff, Jesus said its not up to you to know the times and seasons that the Father has set. So: Jesus came the first time to deal with sin, next time He is coming to setup the Kingdom on earth.
Can we stop acting like premillennial folks claim Jesus isnt the King and all this nonsense? WE DO BELIEVE JESUS IS ON THE THRONE IN HEAVEN ON THE FATHER'S RIGHT SIDE. This is a non-argument and its retarded logic.
Read the book of Revelation, when Jesus returns the kingdoms of this world have become His kingdom. Why do yall preterist folks even read the bible? If its all been fulfilled, just print out the 10 commandments nail em to the wall and you're gucci.
Also here is the kicker: Jesus never said that the Jews were wrong in expecting an earthly kingdom, Peter asked this very question in Acts 1 and Jesus didnt say nah forget that old judaism stuff, Jesus said its not up to you to know the times and seasons that the Father has set. So: Jesus came the first time to deal with sin, next time He is coming to setup the Kingdom on earth.
Can we stop acting like premillennial folks claim Jesus isnt the King and all this nonsense? WE DO BELIEVE JESUS IS ON THE THRONE IN HEAVEN ON THE FATHER'S RIGHT SIDE. This is a non-argument and its retarded logic.
Read the book of Revelation, when Jesus returns the kingdoms of this world have become His kingdom. Why do yall preterist folks even read the bible? If its all been fulfilled, just print out the 10 commandments nail em to the wall and you're gucci.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Know, therefore, and discern that seven weeks [of years] will elapse between the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Yerushalayim until an anointed prince comes. It will remain built for sixty-two weeks [of years], with open spaces and moats; but these will be troubled times. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Then, after the sixty-two weeks, Mashiach will be cut off and have nothing. The people of a prince yet to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary, but his end will come with a flood, and desolations are decreed until the war is over. [SUP]27 [/SUP]He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”
Ok That talks about the tribulation period
Ok That talks about the tribulation period