Not By Works

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JoDel

Guest
no kidding whats next....oh sorry you thought ya got me!??!?! Drats ...sorry to disappoint you...

All you are doing is being assumption based....you are assuming things about us that hold no weight and are not true...
Such defensiveness and pride wrapped up pretty in sarcasm... Christlike behavior? I'm not seeing it... how sad.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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It is hard to understand how people can be against the love of God and only want to see a task master.:confused:
As they say... it is what it is....
I am confused. You have said in effect if God does not see your sin and help you overcome it,
but just let you be, that is love, and actually learning to follow Christ is having a task master.

Is this what you mean, because this is miss-understanding what evil is, and what righteousness
is, and how Christ moves in us is a fundamental reality of the Kingdom.

I get the picture people identify so deeply with their flaws and failings they believe they cannot
be resolved. Now we are talking real sinful behaviour not things that are just the way we express
ourselves and our own self criticism.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Yes, the cross is not a burden, it is an instrument of death, Jesus was telling the people listening that they needed to be crucified with Him so that they could partake on His victory.
Denying oneself and serving others is not something of effort?

Let us hear Jesus

Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me."
Luke 9:23

Now if you mean this is the joy of service, the privilege of following the King, then
amen, but I am not sure this is what you meant.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Personally I am a firm believer that Christians can fall from the faith. This doesn't mean that they are going to hell and their loving Father is sending them to the lake of fire.
Let us get a perspective on life.
We are redeemed only because we have fellowship with God. It is this communion that
gives us life and this alone.

If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15:6

To leave Christ is to die.
To not be in Christ is to sow to the flesh alone.

For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:13

Now if you do not believe scripture or what spiritual reality is, that is your choice,
but it is obvious, there is no reason to leave Christ other than you want death and
destruction.
 
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Let us get a perspective on life.
We are redeemed only because we have fellowship with God. It is this communion that
gives us life and this alone.

If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15:6

To leave Christ is to die.
To not be in Christ is to sow to the flesh alone.

For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:13

Now if you do not believe scripture or what spiritual reality is, that is your choice,
but it is obvious, there is no reason to leave Christ other than you want death and
destruction.
Hi Peter,

A Christian can fall from faith and still be saved...

I'm dizzy right now.

So, I'd ask this:

What is the difference between a saved person and an unsaved person???

This would mean we're all saved.

If faith is necessary to be saved, and one loses faith, and some here say that person would still be saved...

THEN WHY AREN'T PERSONS WHO NEVER HAD FAITH TO BEGIN WITH NOT SAVED??

I'd like to hear them explain the difference.

There's too much confusion here.
Said the beggar to the thief...
 
Apr 30, 2016
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This is how you speak to a fellow lover of Jesus Christ? Jesus said, "This commandment I give you... to LOVE one another..." Whether your views are sympatico or different, RESPECT should always be foremost in treating someone with dignity. You fall short on all accounts. Not only this post, but MANY I have perused. Shame on you for denying the action of the commandment orated by our Lord, Jesus Christ.
I know of Others here on this thread that might want to read what you wrote above and take your advice.
It's interesting how you only say this to some persons and not Others.
Even though the Others would need your advice MUCH MORE.

Just saying.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
And once again you show how painfully deaf you are. You have a one track, dogmatic mind. It won't even let you hear what a person is saying. You've been proving that over and over and over again. You only know one way to listen when it comes to doctrine.....your way.

Note, I'm not saying you're deaf because you won't agree with me. You don't have to agree with me. I'm saying you literally can't even understand what is being said to you! That's not an honest discussion. That's getting bullied and beat and shamed into submission instead of actually engaging your opponent in open honest discussion. But that's what narcissists do. They don't listen and instead beat down, and they surely can never admit when they've been wrong.
dude you are new here, You do not know me at all. So I would suggest that before you start tearing people down you get to know them.

I get in front of people who have attitudes, You came in here showing all kind of attitudes, I am sick of people in the name of christ trying to tell people what to believe. and cutting them down when they do not Agree, Like you have done since I have seen you.

You keep saying I have not heard you, Yet funny how you do not explain where I was wrong.

Should I go back and repost all the times you posted stuff tearing people down?

Once again, You claimed if abraham did not do the work of offering his son, He would have lost his salvation.

I already proved to you Abraham already showed works, Hebrews mentions it Yet according to you this was not enough work. (he already fulfilled the James 2 requirement whether you think works are required or not)

That is a works based gospel. If you do not think so, thats fine, We could let this go. But no, You have to tear me down because I disagreed with you.

People are going to disagree with you, If you show an attitude to them for disagreeing, Then you will get it back.




 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Are you really still this unlearned about what the Fear of the Lord really is....it has nothing to do with fearing sin...

PS: I am not afraid of sin in the least bit, because it has no dominion over me.....I do Fear the Lord because of the benefits it provides my in my daily life...below are some of those benefits and promises I receive when I fear the Lord...

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Then you will discern the fear of the Lord And discover the knowledge of God.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

The fear of the Lord prolongs life, But the years of the wicked will be shortened.

In the fear of the Lord there is strong confidence, And his children will have refuge.

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, That one may avoid the snares of death.

Better is a little with the fear of the Lord Than great treasure and turmoil with it.

The fear of the Lord is the instruction for wisdom, And before honor comes humility.


By lovingkindness and truth iniquity is atoned for, And by the fear of the Lord one keeps away from evil.<<<<
this one is really awesome.....you should try it some time...

The fear of the Lord leads to life, So that one may sleep satisfied, untouched by evil.

The reward of humility and the fear of the Lord Are riches, honor and life.

Do not let your heart envy sinners, But live in the fear of the Lord always.

“And to man He said, ‘Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; And to depart from evil is understanding.’”

The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the Lord are true; they are righteous altogether.

This next one is another biggee you should learn:
The secret of the Lord is for those who fear Him, And He will make them know His covenant.

Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him, On those who hope for His lovingkindness,

The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him, And rescues them.

But the lovingkindness of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear Him, And His righteousness to children’s children,






Amen,

Fear means reverence, if I remember right, but there are some who do preach fear.. as in being scared..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What is the difference between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow?

Trying to figure out how to explain my thoughts.
Peter had Godly sorrow, Peter repented

Judas had wordly sorrow, Judas did not repent
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Life perspectives

We will all die. Something will kill us. We can maybe choose our death, but mostly not.
So whatever choices we make, it will not save us.

Jesus offers us life, not just life with Him but life with others, who love and care.
Now some crazy nutcase might appear and want to destroy this effort, make individuals
compromise, but eternity just carries on its work.

Once you see righteousness and love, its eternal nature from the Father, through the son
there is no other way.

Those who want to save those who walk away, are just excusing darkness over light.
The light will never be extinguished, and those who understand it want just to know it more
and walk deeper.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
dude...I know it gets heated, but really, when we mess up we own it....regardless of doctrine, we have to own it...
I did own it my friend, I stand by what I said..


It could be used as a legal term meaning "paid in full" they actually have documents which show where people in prison had the document, which they could show to prove they had paid their debt to society.

if people disagree that is their right, It does not mean I have to change my mind, they are free to believe what they want.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Ariel the fear of the Lord is all about relationship....not every thing in the OT is about the law....this is another travesty grace theology does..it marginalizes OT scripture to the point of irrelevance...

The Fear of the Lord is not leading us to Christ, it is about how to have relationship with him....
If people study the OT, they would see God was full of all kinds of grace.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I believe the fear of the Lord is like the Law.,,, it leads us to Christ.

It's bedtime.

Night all.
to me The law would lead to fear, and lead to worldy sorrow. Because it brings condemnation to all who do not obey,

And Godly sorrow only if it brings you to your knees and you recieve Christ.
 
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We are redeemed only because we have fellowship with God. It is this communion that
gives us life and this alone.
Redeemed as in redeemed again redeemed and again redeemed...crucifying Christ over and over every time he throws us into the cleanising fire like a firbrand of the word of God?

How many times must a person be redeemed?

We are redeemed (once)only because we have fellowship with God.... because only the redeemed have fellowship. If we are not redeemed as the better thing that accompanies salvation then we are like those in Hebrews 6 that offer dead works coming from a dead faith.(no faith)

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, in respect to the faith of Christ then they do not belong to Him. There is not one thing you could perform to make yourself born again(redeemption) or something you could to maintain eternal life.

It is this communion that gives us His Spirit life and this alone. No man will be found with a spirit life of their own.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Heb 6:1

If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.John 15:6

That parable does no apply to those who have not the Spirit of Christ....but rather the firery trial of faith for the believer

Unbelievers were never in Christ. The word is you speaking to the believers as a warning. Not them that went out from us because they were never of us. They would not be called branches.

There are no verses that say a person can loose the good work Christ performs in us .If he has begun it he will finish it.

If a believer sins by not remaining and falls from the grace of Christ by denying Him; because Christ has paid the full eternal (not five mimutes and you are on your own )wage of sin and not a kick start placing man were Adam and Eve before one transgression. He gave His life in jeopardy of his own Spirit life in our place, for sins.. past and sins we will commit.

He cannot (impossible) deny himself.

Again....If any man has not the Spirit of Christ they do nor belong to Him.

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.2Ti 2:13


Those who were as a firebrand throne into the fire of his loving rebuke and yet do not return to the source of Grave ,the work of Christ .they have their reward of self righteousness and show it by not returning .Crucifying Christ over and over to public shame as if on demonstration was not enough.


Amo 4:11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.
 

Zen

Senior Member
Sep 11, 2015
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James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
 
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Paul told the Corinthians that they were the righteousness of God in Christ and he said that to them even though they were being carnal and acting like "mere men".

Christ being our righteousness may conflict with our religious views but that's the way life is in Christ. The gospel of the grace of Christ will always be offensive to the self-righteous mindset that try to maintain and obtain righteousness by what "they do".

Until we really get a revelation of what Christ has done for us and that He is our righteousness - we will be making up man-made doctrines of D/I/Y. self-righteousness/holiness in order to maintain and obtain our own righteousness.

There are fruits of righteousness but these are from the righteousness we have in Christ. Paul himself says to awake to righteousness and sin not.

1 Cor. 15:34 Awake to who you are in Christ - a new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph. 4:24

Here is what Paul told those Corinthians that were carnal. He still told them who they really were in Christ. - righteous and holy....saints.

Then he corrects their behavior but he didn't say "you are all unsaved now" and going to hell and your loving Father will throw you into the lake of fire - a
s a works-based salvationists would have us to believe and thus this message of Christ's finished work for us is offensive to them.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

The true gospel of the grace of Christ transforms people from the inside out. The false one is trying to get people to produce fruit by our behavior or good works. True good works and godly behavior is a manifestation of the life of Christ in us.

Real change done by the Holy Spirit within us is in the new heart being manifested - love, joy, peace..etc. These are ours even in the midst of circumstances that are screaming at us.

The true grace of the gospel of Christ teaches us how to live godly in this present world. We can trust the Holy Spirit within us to release His fruit in us so that others can see Christ in us.

The true Christian life is by grace through faith in Christ's work alone from start to finish. In this true reverence for our Father and Lord is manifested.

It is going to be a terrible thing to stand in the presence of our God based on our own self-righteousness and good works for those that Christ is not in them - knowing this terror of the Lord we persuade men to believe and trust in Christ. He loves them dearly and He will never forsake nor leave them. Never.

John 6:37-39 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

[SUP]38 [/SUP] "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

[SUP]39 [/SUP] "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
 
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dude you are new here,(1) You do not know me at all.(2) So I would suggest that before you start tearing people down you get to know them.(3)

I get in front of people who have attitudes,(4) You came in here showing all kind of attitudes,
(5) I am sick of people in the name of christ(6) trying to tell people what to believe.(7) and cutting them down(8) when they do not Agree, Like you have done(9) since I have seen you.

You keep saying I have not heard you, Yet funny how you do not explain where I was wrong.
(10)

Should I go back and repost all the times you posted stuff tearing people down?
(11)

Once again, You claimed
(12) if abraham did not do the work of offering his son, He would have lost his salvation.

I already proved to you
(13) Abraham already showed works, Hebrews mentions it Yet according to you(14) this was not enough work. (he already fulfilled the James 2 requirement whether you think(15) works are required or not)

That is a works based gospel. If you do not think so, thats fine, We could let this go
. But no, You have to tear me down (16) because I disagreed with you.

People are going to disagree with you, If you show an attitude
(17) to them for disagreeing, Then you will get it back.
I was trying to think and feel my way through the post above.
It is like a boxer trading blows. It is language I try not to use because it is a style
that seems so confrontational and communicates aggression and rejection without
resolution or peace. So I was thinking of counting the blows, 17.

Now this approach is fine, because it is the MO. But with all MO's once you know
their technique it looses its power, because it is all front with nothing behind it, lol :cool:
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I was trying to think and feel my way through the post above.
It is like a boxer trading blows. It is language I try not to use because it is a style
that seems so confrontational and communicates aggression and rejection without
resolution or peace. So I was thinking of counting the blows, 17.

Now this approach is fine, because it is the MO. But with all MO's once you know
their technique it looses its power, because it is all front with nothing behind it, lol :cool:
I find it very unfortunate to treat a newcomer like this.
We should try to make them feel welcome.
I think he was just giving his opinion and was not confrontational in any way.
It's not even an opinion, it sounds very sound and doctrinal to me...

I'm sorry if he Leaves the discussion because he seems like a serious person and we don't have
enough of that here...
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I get in front of people who have attitudes, You came in here showing all kind of attitudes, I am sick of people in the name of christ trying to tell people what to believe. and cutting them down when they do not Agree
lol.

Bully boy bullying someone with blows, claiming their anger justifies them bullying someone
else.

Darkness and light. Jesus said this

In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 5:16

Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.
Phil 4:5

Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
col 3:12

I would have not believed we are sharing about the Lord of love, and searching to
understand His gospel and His truth.

Christ died as an example, that we might serve one another and meet each others
needs.

Now kindly taking scripture and asking people to read it and comment on it is not forcing
belief or telling others what to believe, but actually listening to God and offering up ones
revelation in the Lord.

I really appreciate all the contributions here, and all the honest attempts to do whatever
people do, because none of this is forced, it is completely what people choose to bring
and share. And God will use it all to His purposes to train His people for the work.

Amen.