Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What are you talking about?
Quit now before you make a fool of yourself.
You were wrong. Own up to it.
no, you were wrong, are wrong, and can take your merit based gospel elsewhere


Abraham was saved in gen 3:15, and he would have went to heaven for eternity if h died before he had a chance to sacrifice his son

if you wanted proof his faith was real, he already proves it numerous times.

whether your u agree with this or not does not matter,


I will trust agod a god knew what he did in Gen 15. god does not make mistakes
 
May 12, 2017
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I mean reverence not scared fear.. You completely miss what I'm saying because you need to understand the difference
this went right past her.....and it will never be answered.
 
May 12, 2017
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Some do fall away but that is why God's plan is so perfect because Jesus did not fall away.

It is about His Victory ..we boast in Him and then we will have our life and breath in Him and His Grace will flow.

People who fall away are the ones who are trying to carry the cross, not really understanding what Jesus meant when He said these things, then they miss the Victory that is there for the taking.

God is so pleased when we come to Him and draw from Him as our Living Waters.
Jesus told us to pick up our cross and follow him,right?
 
P

PHart

Guest
no, you were wrong, are wrong, and can take your merit based gospel elsewhere


Abraham was saved in gen 3:15, and he would have went to heaven for eternity if h died before he had a chance to sacrifice his son

if you wanted proof his faith was real, he already proves it numerous times.

whether your u agree with this or not does not matter,


I will trust agod a god knew what he did in Gen 15. god does not make mistakes
Are you just going to ignore what you were wrong about as if we're not going to notice?
You said Abraham failed in his faith. Paul says he did not, but was in fact strenghtened in his faith.
You were wrong. Own up to it.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest

I answered, and I will reiterate.

Fear does not stop sin, you may think it is but you are waging the battle but it is in your own effort.

We are transformed by His Grace not fear.



this went right past her.....and it will never be answered.
 
May 12, 2017
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hmm I honk God says differently, while he is our king, he is a fatherly king and wants us to come to him as children

2 Timothy 1:7 [Full Chapter]
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

So now we are twisting definitions around....The Fear of the Lord is not scared fear and the way you guys are defining this showing that you are now treading in waters over your head...
 
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PHart

Guest
....and can take your merit based gospel elsewhere
Lol, see? I said you would continue to hear what I say as a works gospel. It's a joke. I mean a literal joke. You people are so determined to only dogmatically spew out your own doctrine you won't even listen to what is actually being said. I'm literally sick to my stomach from participating in this thread. And I know that's the Holy Spirit telling me to not talk anymore to you people.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Yes, the cross is not a burden, it is an instrument of death, Jesus was telling the people listening that they needed to be crucified with Him so that they could partake on His victory.

Jesus told us to pick up our cross and follow him,right?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest

I answered, and I will reiterate.

Fear does not stop sin, you may think it is but you are waging the battle but it is in your own effort.

We are transformed by His Grace not fear.
Reverance of God has its place in a person's walk.

If you are disobedient you should be afraid of the consequences, it does help you remember to pay attention to how you walk. Allows you to tame your tongue, etc.

There is a difference between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow.

In the same way there is a difference between fear of God and fear of the world.
 
May 12, 2017
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It is hard to understand how people can be against the love of God and only want to see a task master.:confused:

As they say... it is what it is....
How are we saying we do not believe that God is Love, that is what he is 1 John 4.8
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I answered, and I will reiterate.

Fear does not stop sin, you may think it is but you are waging the battle but it is in your own effort.

We are transformed by His Grace not fear.

We are transformed by the Spirit of grace as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18 We do participate in this as we do by an act of our wills "put on Christ".

Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord,
are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

The true way of transformation in Christ is by "beholding" the glory of the Lord as in a mirror. When we see the glory of the Lord
we are transformed by the Holy Spirit.

"Transformed"
is in the passive voice which mean the Holy Spirit changes us to reveal the life of Christ that is in us outwardly so that others can see Christ. We participate with the Spirit of God within us in this.

This
"putting on of Christ"
is paramount in order for others to see the real Christ that is in us. This being transformed is seen as renewing the mind to the truth of Christ and all that He has done. Romans 12:2

The real question is - just what is the
"glory of the Lord
"?

Glory which is
"doxa" in Greek means "weight; the value indicated on a scale when a commodity would be weighed in the market place." When there was no scale which could measure the weight of a commodity. It was considered as "doxa
".

"Doxa" is a reading that is beyond the scale. When you rest in God's opinion of you, when you are persuaded of His persuasion, when you accept His acceptance, and you believe in His belief of you, you are beholding and living in the "glory
" of God.

It's a manifestation of His goodness as He showed Moses when he asked to see His glory. God showed him His goodness.

He has completely and unconditionally given Himself over to you and He has revealed His love in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Does this want to make us go out and sin all we want? No, a thousand times No!

It makes our hearts melt in love for Him as we see Him for who He truly is and run to the One who loves us and gave His life for us. We have died and our true life is hidden with Christ in God. Col. 3:3


 
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Ariel82

Guest
"You people"

Seriously?

It's a human trait to make others less human with that phrase?

What happened to viewing each other as beautiful and unique creations beloved by God?
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
My comment was in response to the comment below.

This comment belittles the love of God, that is how it comes across.



Originally Posted by Zi

This coming from the one who said EG post was amazing and it's wrong??

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of what?
When people think of God as big Daddy who loves us all sooo much and forget He's King too, really go sideways







How are we saying we do not believe that God is Love, that is what he is 1 John 4.8
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Ok look I think both of you are sort of right...
I could not find tetelestai is strongs lexicon, nor could I find it in VINES....I found it in preceptaustin...
Below is Strongs break down of the word finished, used in John 19.30, it is from 2 words teleō: & telos


teleō:Outline of Biblical Usage [?]


  1. to bring to a close, to finish, to end
    1. passed, finished
  2. to perform, execute, complete, fulfil, (so that the thing done corresponds to what has been said, the order, command etc.)
    1. with special reference to the subject matter, to carry out the contents of a command
    2. with reference also to the form, to do just as commanded, and generally involving the notion of time, to perform the last act which completes a process, to accomplish, fulfil
  3. to pay
    1. of tribute
telos:

  1. end
    1. termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)
    2. the end
      1. the last in any succession or series
      2. eternal
    3. that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue
    4. the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose
  2. toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)

    2 things talk about pay, but only in context of paying a tribute or paying a tithe, that is a percentage, not PIF bro...

    VINES for teleō: & telos


    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]A-1[/TD]
    [TD]Verb[/TD]
    [TD]Strong's Number: g1822[/TD]
    [TD]Greek: exartizo[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    Accomplish, Accomplishment:
    "to fit out," (from ek, "out," and a verb derived from artos, "a joint"), means "to furnish completely," 2Ti 3:17, or "to accomplish," Act 21:5, there said of a number of days, as if to render the days complete by what was appointed for them.
    See FURNISH. In the Sept., Exd 28:7.

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]A-2[/TD]
    [TD="width: 40"]Verb[/TD]
    [TD]Strong's Number: g4137[/TD]
    [TD]Greek: pleroo[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Accomplish, Accomplishment:
    "to fulfill, to complete, carry out to the full" (as well as to fill), is translated "perfect" in Rev 3:2, AV; RV, "I have found no works of thine fulfilled before My God;" "accomplish" in Luk 9:31.
    See COMPLETE, END, EXPIRE, FILL, FULFILL, FULL, PREACH.
    Note: Its strengthened form, ekpleroo, "to fulfill," lit., "fill out," is used in Act 13:33, of the fulfillment of a Divine promise of the resurrection of Christ.

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]A-3[/TD]
    [TD="width: 40"]Verb[/TD]
    [TD]Strong's Number: g5055[/TD]
    [TD]Greek: teleo[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Accomplish, Accomplishment:
    "to finish, to bring to an end" (telos, "an end"), frequently signifies, not merely to terminate a thing, but to carry out a thing to the full. It is used especially in the Apocalypse, where it occurs eight times, and is rendered "finish" in Rev 10:7; 11:7, and in the RV of Rev 15:1, which rightly translates it "(in them) is finished (the wrath of God)." So in Rev 10:8; in Rev 17:17, RV, "accomplish," and "finish" in Rev 20:3,5,7; in Luk 2:39, RV, "accomplish," for AV, "performed."
    See END, EXPIRE, FILL, FINISH, FULFILL, GO, No. 5, PAY, PERFORM.

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]A-4[/TD]
    [TD="width: 40"]Verb[/TD]
    [TD]Strong's Number: g2005[/TD]
    [TD]Greek: epiteleo[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Accomplish, Accomplishment:
    epi, "up," intensive, and No. 3, is a strengthened form of that verb, in the sense of "accomplishing." The fuller meaning is "to accomplish perfectly;" in Rom 15:28, RV, "accomplish;" "perfecting" in 2Cr 7:1; "complete" in 2Cr 8:6,11; "completion" in the latter part of this 11th verse, which is better than "performance;" "perfected" in Gal 3:3; "perfect" in Phl 1:6. In Hbr 8:5 the margin rightly has "complete" instead of "make," with regard to the Tabernacle. In Hbr 9:6 it is translated "accomplish" and in 1Pe 5:9.
    See COMPLETE, DO, FINISH, MAKE, PERFECT, PERFORM.

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]A-5[/TD]
    [TD="width: 40"]Verb[/TD]
    [TD]Strong's Number: g5048[/TD]
    [TD]Greek: teleioo[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Accomplish, Accomplishment:
    though distinct grammatically from teleo, has much the same meaning. The main distinction is that teleo more frequently signifies "to fulfill," teleioo, more frequently, "to make perfect," one of the chief features of the Epistle to the Hebrews, where it occurs nine times. It is rendered "accomplish" in the RV of Jhn 4:34; 5:36; 17:4; Act 20:24.
    See CONSECRATE, FINISH, FULFILL, PERFECT.

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]A-6[/TD]
    [TD="width: 40"]Verb[/TD]
    [TD]Strong's Number: g4130[/TD]
    [TD]Greek: pletho[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Accomplish, Accomplishment:
    "to fulfill," is translated "accomplished" in the AV of Luk 1:23; 2:6, 21, 22 (RV, "fulfilled").
    See FILL, No. 5, FURNISH, Note.

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]B-1[/TD]
    [TD="width: 40"]Noun[/TD]
    [TD]Strong's Number: g1604[/TD]
    [TD]Greek: ekplerosis[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Accomplish, Accomplishment:
    see A, No. 2, Note, means "an entire fulfilment" (ek, "out," plerosis, "a filling"), Act 21:26, of the "fulfillment" of days of purification.

Preceptaustin:
TETELESTAI-Paid in Full | Precept Austin

I did the link,because the entry tis to large and copying the fst few paragraphs doe snot give us all that it contains...
you will probably not find the word completed. the suffix of the word tells us how it is used. Is it perfect. Activem 1st person etc.

This is what I found in logos bible.


as written in the greek.

tetelestai-- verb, perfect passive indicative third person singular finite verb

and will add another commentary, Since Stephen loves to use commentaries.

19:30. The sixth word or saying that Jesus spoke from the cross was the single Greek word tetelestai which means It is finished. Papyri receipts for taxes have been recovered with the word tetelestai written across them, meaning “paid in full.” This word on Jesus’ lips was significant. When He said, “It is finished” (not “I am finished”), He meant His redemptive work was completed. He had been made sin for people (2 Cor. 5:21) and had suffered the penalty of God’s justice which sin deserved. Even in the moment of His death, Jesus remained the One who gave up His life (cf. John 10:11, 14, 17–18). He bowed His head (giving His seventh saying, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit” [Luke 23:46]) and then dismissed His spirit. This differs from the normal process in death by crucifixion in which the life-spirit would ebb away and then the head would slump forward.
Blum, E. A. (1985). John. In J. F. Walvoord & R. B. Zuck (Eds.), The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (Vol. 2, p. 340). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.



 
May 12, 2017
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Yup, well what God requires from you is to accept His payment in full, accomplished by Jesus.
We do, that has never been in dispute accept in your own dialgoue...Jesus did not say GO and SIT, he said GO and MAKE....
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Anyway. I am off to bed. Every one have a good night. We should be able to voice our opinions and still be civil and respectful to each other.

Without the Holy Spirit illuminating the truth of Christ's finished work for us - all of us will and can make up man-made doctrines that have the 'appearance of good" but deny the power to really transform us as only the Spirit of grace can do that as we look unto Jesus for all things.

Let's encourage each other to rely on Christ Himself for He alone is our life. Night all!
 
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PHart

Guest
"You people"

Seriously?

It's a human trait to make others less human with that phrase?

What happened to viewing each other as beautiful and unique creations beloved by God?
Yes, 'you people'.
Here, if you really care about being godly, get some help: https://narcissismcured.com/

I'm serious. Forum instigators and abusers are narcissists. The web is a convenient conduit through which they can be narcissistic abusers. Look at the symptoms of narcissists and you will see how you have been acting. You are bullies. That's why you people are here. You're working out your narcissistic aggressions.
 
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May 12, 2017
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For me it's not about works but nature. If after you declare Jesus as Lord and Saviour yet doing to or keep the sins we are told not to, then yes those will have no access because they chose their nature. Babes and those slipping are not who I mean, I'm talking about the ones that know better and shrug it off because they lack the fear of Him, or reverence of His Holiness...
Or think that we are were talking about begin afraid of sin....LOL, sis, that cracked me up...I was like really...talk real big and shout ting about grace, grace is fine for the babes, but when you get into the meat and they are like huh?!?!
 
Apr 15, 2017
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What do they not get.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ,for we are in the flesh,and have not received the Spirit yet,for that is all we can do is have faith,and our works are as filthy rags.

Faith alone,and not saved by works,only applies when we confess Christ,for we are in the flesh.

When we receive the Spirit the responsibility falls on us to maintain our salvation,for we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,and if you do not continue in the goodness of God,you will be cut off.

What do they not get.

God said He wants all people to repent,and to come to the acknowledging of the truth,and be saved,and the Spirit and bride say,anybody can have that salvation.Jesus lights every person that is born in to this world,which everybody can see the light of Jesus and be saved.

God had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as the saints have salvation from the foundation of the world,and this salvation is to whoever wants it,like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world,although they were future events.

God's kingdom is love,so He would not choose people to be saved without their input,for then it would not be true love,and God is not evil to condemn people that have no input in their destiny.It goes against the nature of God.

What do they not get.

The Bible says those that name the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity.

Do not depart from the living God by the deceitfulness of sin.

Be righteous,and sin not.

This separates the children of God,from the children of the devil,those that do not do righteousness is not of God,neither those that love not their brother.

If a person holds unto sin their soul is not saved,until they get rid of the sin.

If a person holds unto sin the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away.

Sin does affect our relationship with God,and if a person does not want sin they can abstain from sin by the Spirit.There is no excuse for sin.

What do they not get.

The Bible says if anyone preaches that God blesses with material things,and money,for our wants,withdraw yourself from them,having food and clothing,be content,and they have erred from the faith,and James,their faith is dead,and John,the love of God does not dwell in them.

God only blesses with our needs,and not our wants,and some people pray amiss to heap it upon their lusts.

If any person loves the world,or the things in the world,they are not of the Father.

Some people want to hear their beliefs according to the flesh so much,that they go against what God said to hold unto their beliefs,of no responsibility,no worries,no stress,can live like the world,enjoying vacations,cruises,material things,worldly entertainment,and it does not affect their salvation,even though God said it does.

What do they not get.

Jesus said many will say to Him why can't we dwell with you,and He will say they were workers of iniquity,for they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,ever learning and never able to come to the truth that sin does affect their relationship with God.

They will not allow the Spirit to lead them,for they want to enjoy things of the flesh.They will not let go of the flesh,so they make an excuse they are alright,and want to hold unto their beliefs so much that they go against what God said,abstain from sin by the Spirit,and this is what separates the children of God,from the children of the devil.