Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

James 2:18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

Faith without works is dead.

Zero zip nada works, Your faiht is dead,

Can it save you?

No, We are saved by grace though faith not works. Not by works of righteousness, which we have done, but by Gods mercy HE SAVED US, If abraham was found by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God, what does scripture say, Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

Of course stephen here wants his work to account for something, so he will post a passage which is talking to people who are hearers and not does, and who think because they believe (even demons believe) in God they are saved. and do not have to do anything, but live as the world does. it is ok. That is is not ok, True faith produces true work, If you CLAIM you have fairth, but HAVE NO WORK, your faiht is dead, Can it save you NO

if course it does not say you lose salvation, Like Stephen wants to use it. It say YOU WERE NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH,

If a persons faith is REAL, it will be proven TO THAT PERSON or perfected IN THAT PERSON by works.

It will NO NOTHING TO ANYONE ELSE> it will not even PROVE THEY ARE SAVED,, A lay person can act saved..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We're onto their games.

I'm as cool as a moose.

Games,

Here you go people. She is calling sin a game.

How do we expect her to repent when she thinks sin is a game?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, once again it's been entertaining to see the church pontificate about how salvation is by faith apart from works (which it is), and then say for that reason you do not have to have works attached to your faith to be saved,

Ok dude, here you go again.

SHOW ONE PERSON WHO SAID THIS? Name one person who has said a person can claim to have faith but have zero works,

but then they'll turn right around and insist that they are not saying dead faith (faith without works attached) saves. Lol!

Yeah, NAME ONE PERSON?

go ahead dude, Either back up your words, or prove your just one of the slanderers..

 

[Zi]

John Bevere has wonderful books on the subject.. Driven by Eternity... Helps to put all scripture in right context not just filtered context based on experience

 

[Grace777x70]

When the Philippian jailer asked Paul "What must I do to be saved?" Notice what Paul said......it wasn't - "Do good works or you will not be saved and then your loving Father who loves you dearly will throw you into hell."

( which is the message of all works-based religions when you boil them down although the will deny it - there is no purgatory )

Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

 

[FranC]

And if they do that, They are COMPLETELY SAVED, They are SAVED FOREVER, they are given the POWER TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD, as such, they WILL DO good works, They WILL Obey his commands, (because they are new creatures, and sin to them is eating food their stomoach can not handle. because it is poisoness to them.

But you teach this power. BUT THEN DENY IT




WHAT? Are you going to tell me a person had faith in God, then want to go live like he did before? SInce when does faith mean I do not have to do anything, THATS NOT FAITH.

again, FAITH WORKS< faith is not dead, If it id dead, IT IS NOT FAITH!! JAMES tried to tell you this, but your mind is so focused on works, you can not understandn what James is trying to tell you.



Thats because YOU HAVE UTTERLY NO IDEA WHAT I AM SAYING, it You did, YOU WOULD NOT SAY SUCH RUBBISH like i think a person can be saved AND CONTINUE TO LIVE IN SIN,,

Your the one saying that NOT ME!!!!



those are your words not mine, I never said that, or insinuating that..



Well imagine that, WE AGREE ON SOMETHING, But you can not see this, BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU KNOW EVERYTHING I BELIEVE.

well news flash Fran, YOU DO NOT!! You keep proving you have no idea.

Yes,, Jesus gives us power to obey, Yes his children will obey, Their is no must, because it will happen. WHOEVER HAS FAITH WILL OBEY, PERIOD. If they DO NOT HAVE FAITH< THEY WILL DISOBEY.

it is not a requirement, it is a result. If your root is christ, you will obey, If your root is self *which includes works) you will not work (even if you act like your working, yoru not. God will not accept self righteous works.

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE..




Then why do you bot understand it?

You tell me you do. then claim a person can be saved AND NOT DO IT..

Do not com eto me preaching about works and salvation and how God empowers us, then deny a person who is born of God can or will do those works. because if you do, you reject that power.





You can post it till your blue in the face.

And I will keep responding (even though you keep ignoring)

GODS CHILDREN WILL OBEY HIS COMMANDS. not might.

Your the one who says they might not, NOT ME,

If you do not believe in the power of God to change people. then stop preaching it.

You were doing so good, until you said this:

it is not a requirement, it is a result.

WHY is it necessary to say this?

It IS a REQUIREMENT.

Why not just admit it?

Romans 2:13
Not the hearers of the word are just before God, but the doers of the word...

 

[Meggido]

Rededicating is not the same as getting re-saved.

Not that I agree with alter calls. I think we should fall on our knees where we are. But why would you ask about that. Have you never fallen, and got back on your feet and rededicate yourself to God?

Not starting a war bro, but you have been saying now for over 14, 000 posts that since it is not a work of ourselves and of Christ alone, we do not fall, we cannot, he keeps us sealed, we are his forever, it is all eternal, no works needed, but now you are asking me if I ever have fallen, got up and re-dedicated....

IF I am OSAS why do I need to think I would fall, need to get back up and then re-dedicate.....why is this rinse and repeat of the OSAS doctrine?...I will fall, get up and re-dedicate...why should I bother, if it is not by personal saving faith or my personal works that save me, but totally all him , his grace and his own faith, why would I fall, have to get back up and re-dedicate!?!?!?


Which is it EG, you cannot have cake and eat it too, can you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Once again,
Thanks for the insults.

Please learn the difference between OBEDIENCE OF THE LAW
OBEDIENCE OF FAITH

I know the difference

If I have faith in God to save me completely. I have faith to do other things he asks me to, and I will do them

If I do not have faith God will save me, But I think I have to maintain my salvation by my obedience, Then I am practicing works of law.

Your still trying to perfect salvation by works of the flesh..

Works of the flesh do you even know what they are? Two people can do a good deed, One can be doing a work of the flesh, one can be doing Gods will. WHat is the difference? do you know?

 

[PeterJens]

This reminds me of the phrase, can people hear you scream in space.

The answer is no.

So this is just a strange invention on something that is impossible, so you have to laugh, like
an insult meant to wound, but actually can never exist.

And on people saying God has given us victory over sin, listen to what Paul says

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin — because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
rom 6:6-7

Paul is saying in Christ we are free from sin, we no longer sin, we are slaves to righteousness,
sin has lost its hold on us.

Now if Christ has set us free from the bondage of sin, this is the power that many claim is
impossible, so God has done the impossible, Halleluyah.

Here we go.. another one taking things out of context..

Peter, if you can not quote my whole thread, Then stop responding to me, I am sick of you taking words I say out of context and trying to puff yourself up.

Then again you do it to Gods word every day, why should I expect you to treat other people any different.

Hi EG, I was just commenting on saying people are "screaming" something.

Believe it or not the context is actually irrelevant, the fact you cannot scream in text, lol,
is 100% true.

I would say you invent problems beyond my imagination. I hope you enjoy doing it, because
it matters little to me. I know you and how you respond, so I do not want you cramp your
style on my behalf.

[video=youtube;wjLlLPZderk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjLlLPZderk&amp;list=RDGMEMMib4QpREwENw3_jAc0Y gNwVMwjLlLPZderk[/video]

 

[PeterJens]

Faith without works is a car without any oil or gas.

Faith exists to open the door to make us into the image of Christ who is the image
of the Father.

Or is a hot air ballon without a burner so not hot air.

If you cannot travel and change there is no point at all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course works prove something.
James 2:14-26

Did James lie??

Most likeyly James, the BROTHER of JESUS wrote this epistle.

Am I to believe HIM or you???

Who is james speaking to. WHo does it prove it to.

Does God need proof. I mean seriously Fran, Does God need proof.
Do I need to have proof that you are saved? Does anyone else need to have proof that you are saved?

WHo is he talking to Fran?

Is he not talking to the people who are hearers not doers. Who say they have faith, but have zero zip nada works.

if I have works, Why do I need james to tell me to test my faith, if I have works, I already proved that my faith is real. Why do I still need warned?

 

[Stephen63]

Do I attack you personally?
No. Because I have the bible on my side.

WHY do you Always attack me personally???

You started a sentence up above.

You didn't finish it... It's highlighted.

Whenever my 5 month old grandson rants, I just shove a binky in his mouth.

Not so easy with EG.

Wouldn't happen to know where I could find a binky with a tip the size of a baseball, would ya?

 

[PHart]

Ok dude, here you go again.

SHOW ONE PERSON WHO SAID THIS? Name one person who has said a person can claim to have faith but have zero works,



Yeah, NAME ONE PERSON?

go ahead dude, Either back up your words, or prove your just one of the slanderers..

How 'bout the two people who have used the example of the thief on the cross to dismiss James' teaching for all the rest of us? They claim because of his example NO ONE has to have works attached to their faith to be saved. Even though James specifically says the faith that has no works attached (dead faith) can NOT save.

 

[PHart]

Faith without works is a car without any oil or gas.

Faith exists to open the door to make us into the image of Christ who is the image
of the Father.

Or is a hot air ballon without a burner so not hot air.

If you cannot travel and change there is no point at all.

I like to use the example of going swimming.
Faith without works is like saying you're swimming in the pool and you're bone dry. And then pontificating profusely how surely you are declared by the owner of the pool to be one swimming in the pool. Oh, and that being wet is no proof that you are. That's not necessary.

 

[Zmouth]

amen

so why are people. Here saying a person can have faith, but not have any works?

it does not follow what the e faith means does it?

I guess the same way a person can believe the Gospel is free because it is freely given.

Proverbs 23:23

 

[Meggido]

I certainly can't answer for all Churches, or even the one I attend. But I have no problem with rededicating yourself to the Lord.

A lot of saved Christians wander away like lost sheep. BUT THEY ARE STILL SHEEP, they didn't morph into goats. They experience horrible things, like the Prodigal son did because of their wandering. But the Father will draw them back, go and retrieve them, or in some cases give them over to satan for the destruction of the flesh. (Though their spirit will be raised to life).

So what is wrong with acknowledging that wandering and sinful lifestyle, like the Prodigal son did, and rededicate your life to Him? Did the father say, "depart from me you who practice iniquity?"
no. He ran and hugged his son.

He only THOUGHT he had lost his sonship. His Father had other ideas.

So rededication has nothing to do with being born again.

It would seem that you are contradicting yourselves...First you state that if anyone one leaves the faith, they were not really saved and not really part of you to begin with....but you give it a complete pass and turn it all around when the word re-dedication comes up.

2 Corinthians 2 proves the mans' flesh was NOT destroyed....

 

[Grace777x70]

How 'bout the two people who have used the example of the thief on the cross to dismiss James' teaching for all the rest of us? They claim because of his example NO ONE has to have works attached to their faith to be saved. Even though James specifically says the faith that has no works attached (dead faith) can NOT save.

If our eternal security and destination is based "on our good works" in order to "stay saved" - name every one of those works that we need to do. Don't leave one out.

How many of these should we do in order to remain saved? Name every one of the good works - we don't want to go to hell.

What if we don't have the same good works one year like we did the last year - does God throw us out of Christ then?

 

[Meggido]

The person who can't lose his salvation has to have the flesh destroyed so he can be saved? Interesting.

1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB
5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

2 Corinthians 2.1-11 refutes their claim of this happening.

 

[Meggido]

What about the Corinthian guy doing the works of having sex with his mother? Paul tells us that his spirit will be raised on the last day.

No sir, Paul said in 2 Corinthians 2.1-11 the church should forgive him and comfort him....it would not seem his flesh was not destroyed now does it?

But I determined this for my own sake, that I would not come to you in sorrow again. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if I cause you sorrow, who then makes me glad but the one whom I made sorrowful? [SUP]3 [/SUP]This is the very thing I wrote you, so that when I came, I would not have sorrow from those who ought to make me rejoice; having confidence in you all that my joy would be the joy of you all. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote to you with many tears; not so that you would be made sorrowful, but that you might know the love which I have especially for you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But if any has caused sorrow, he has caused sorrow not to me, but in some degree—in order not to say too much—to all of you. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Sufficient for such a one is this punishment which was inflicted by the majority, [SUP]7 [/SUP]so that on the contrary you should rather forgive and comfort him, otherwise such a one might be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Wherefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For to this end also I wrote, so that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But one whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did it for your sakes in the presence of Christ, [SUP]11 [/SUP]so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.

 

[BillG]

We're onto their games.

I'm as cool as a moose.