The Rapture
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Kabah - to put out - means to extinguish an oil lamp / turn off a light.
So literally, God turns the lights out. The Heavenly lights, but also, Jerusalem was a light.
Psalm 50:2
Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.
(The Temple always had a light lit)
Exodus 27
20 And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always.
(Jerusalem was technically in Benjamin's territory)
1 Kings 11:36
And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there.
Matthew 514 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
So literally, God turns the lights out. The Heavenly lights, but also, Jerusalem was a light.
Psalm 50:2
Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.
(The Temple always had a light lit)
Exodus 27
20 And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always.
(Jerusalem was technically in Benjamin's territory)
1 Kings 11:36
And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there.
Matthew 514 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
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Allright so I have been reading through this thread now and it seems to me a lot of folks are confused on Israel.
I see a lot of talk about Israel being the church and the church being Israel but how does that work with:
Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
So lets translate that in Replacement Theologyse: blindness in part is happened to church, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Now lets get to the tribulation: The term used for it is "The great tribulation" but really its the time of Jacob's trouble. Who is Jacob? Israel.
You see the whole point of the tribulation is to throw a bunch of uppercuts at Israel, this is why majority of Jews in the Holy Land are not Christians today!
Once the church (which consists of both JEW and GREEK) is removed (the restrainer) the Anti-Christ can be revealed and BAM we are in the time of Jacob's trouble. The church doesn't need to have God's wrath poured on it, Jesus' work was sufficient.
And before anyone says what about the martyrs, listen, that is satan's wrath and the world's wrath, but in the book of Revelation its GOD who is pouring out His wrath! And since I know some of the pre-wrath folks will jump in and say the seals aren't God's wrath well first read through all the seals (they seem pretty wrathful to me), and then look at who is opening the seals? That's right its the LAMB!
I see a lot of talk about Israel being the church and the church being Israel but how does that work with:
Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
So lets translate that in Replacement Theologyse: blindness in part is happened to church, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Now lets get to the tribulation: The term used for it is "The great tribulation" but really its the time of Jacob's trouble. Who is Jacob? Israel.
You see the whole point of the tribulation is to throw a bunch of uppercuts at Israel, this is why majority of Jews in the Holy Land are not Christians today!
Once the church (which consists of both JEW and GREEK) is removed (the restrainer) the Anti-Christ can be revealed and BAM we are in the time of Jacob's trouble. The church doesn't need to have God's wrath poured on it, Jesus' work was sufficient.
And before anyone says what about the martyrs, listen, that is satan's wrath and the world's wrath, but in the book of Revelation its GOD who is pouring out His wrath! And since I know some of the pre-wrath folks will jump in and say the seals aren't God's wrath well first read through all the seals (they seem pretty wrathful to me), and then look at who is opening the seals? That's right its the LAMB!
Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind." (John 9:39)
"And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Rev 18:1-4)
God bless you all
And most will say, "I can take anything that Antichrist can dish out, and I will never deny Jesus, and take that mark." They forget Peter's hour of weakness; only this time it will cost you your destiny in eternity. To those who cop that macho attitude, I say, "Can you watch them behead you two year old boy or grandson, OR your baby daughter or grandaughter, and still NOT TAKE THE MARK TO SAVE THEIR LIFE?" It is always FAR, FAR better to KEEP READY as if He could COME yet today.
1 Thessalonians 5:4 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.
But almost every amillenialist and mid-tribber will have Him surprise them like a thief, when He comes before the Tribulation for HIS BRIDE.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Revelation 3:10 (ESV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.
J7,
We can't put too much credence on anyone's dating of Revelation since none of them were born yet. Those closest to the 1st century were living under Roman oppression and fear of death for saying anything bad about the empire. Those who came later, after Constantine are simply repeating the earlier church historians with no independent knowledge on the issue.
The earliest church writer that I know of (after the apostles) was Hegesippus who wasn't born until 110 AD and he was born in Palestine. John was believed to have died in Ephesus, Turkey around 98 AD. The two men never met. I am not aware of anyone contemporary to John that wrote anything. It is merely assumed that he wrote Revelation shortly before his death because of the persecution of Domitian who reigned from 81-96 AD of Christians was pretty harsh. However, Nero started the persecution of Christians and he reigned from 54-68 AD. My bet is that John was exiled during Nero's reign because Revelation is clearly mostly about the destruction of Israel under Rome and it has a future prospective.
If I am correct, then we have no Christian manuscripts from between 70 AD and at least 130 AD. If you know of any, please point them out to me as I would be very interested in reading them. Seems to me that there was a total historical "black-out" for at least 60 years right after Jerusalem was destroyed. Why was that?
We can't put too much credence on anyone's dating of Revelation since none of them were born yet. Those closest to the 1st century were living under Roman oppression and fear of death for saying anything bad about the empire. Those who came later, after Constantine are simply repeating the earlier church historians with no independent knowledge on the issue.
The earliest church writer that I know of (after the apostles) was Hegesippus who wasn't born until 110 AD and he was born in Palestine. John was believed to have died in Ephesus, Turkey around 98 AD. The two men never met. I am not aware of anyone contemporary to John that wrote anything. It is merely assumed that he wrote Revelation shortly before his death because of the persecution of Domitian who reigned from 81-96 AD of Christians was pretty harsh. However, Nero started the persecution of Christians and he reigned from 54-68 AD. My bet is that John was exiled during Nero's reign because Revelation is clearly mostly about the destruction of Israel under Rome and it has a future prospective.
If I am correct, then we have no Christian manuscripts from between 70 AD and at least 130 AD. If you know of any, please point them out to me as I would be very interested in reading them. Seems to me that there was a total historical "black-out" for at least 60 years right after Jerusalem was destroyed. Why was that?
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PlainWord everyone has seen the writings of Josephus. The reason people aren't convinced is because well, Jesus hasn't returned. The millennial kingdom isn't here yet. Oh I forgot thats all spiritual oops. Well the New Jerusalem isn't here yet. BUT: Let me guess, the New Jerusalem is spiritual and possibly landed spiritually on the beleivers in 70A.D. after the destruction of the temple?
I just learned about preterism and im already a scholar. Wew. The rule of thumb is: Everything happened in 70A.D. and was spiritual.
I just learned about preterism and im already a scholar. Wew. The rule of thumb is: Everything happened in 70A.D. and was spiritual.
I guess you didn't see the part about "those in Judea being told to flee" or perhaps the part "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies?" No offense but Denadii, you've been listening to too many Darby disciples. 
.
"And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary."
Titus was a prince at the time and his people (3 Roman legions) destroyed the city and sanctuary within 40 years of Messiah getting cut-off. The war lasted 7 years and the temple was destroyed right in the middle of those 7 years.
Now this is just a friendly suggestion: You might want to study this period a little closer before completely looking over it to some future temple and future prince and future destruction of same future temple and city. When a cop walks in on a murder scene and sees someone standing over the body with a smoking gun in his hand, the cop is probably going to want to at least question that man a little and not wait two thousand years for someone else to walk in the room with a gun. Just a thought.
."And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary."
Titus was a prince at the time and his people (3 Roman legions) destroyed the city and sanctuary within 40 years of Messiah getting cut-off. The war lasted 7 years and the temple was destroyed right in the middle of those 7 years.
Now this is just a friendly suggestion: You might want to study this period a little closer before completely looking over it to some future temple and future prince and future destruction of same future temple and city. When a cop walks in on a murder scene and sees someone standing over the body with a smoking gun in his hand, the cop is probably going to want to at least question that man a little and not wait two thousand years for someone else to walk in the room with a gun. Just a thought.
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Hegesippus' was not an apostle nor should his writings be considered God-Breathed. For all we know, he could be like Hymenleaus and Phileteus who taught that the resurrection had already taken place. I can tell you that he was wrong and that because we have no fulfillment of that event, which by the way ushers in the end of the age. And not the spiritual end of the age that you preach, but the one where Jesus physically and visually returns to the earth and rules from Jerusalem from the throne of David and we with him.
You're just going to have to find out for yourself PW by experiencing it. When you see the church has been gathered and that charismatic ruler establishes that seven year agreement, then you will know that all that we have been teaching and proclaiming to you was correct, that is unless you continue in denial even after seeing it with your own two eyes.
After those two events take place, then you will be able to follow the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments like a road map, as they take place in chronological order.
I would rather that you believe in the truth so that you can also be watching and longing for the blessed hope.
I'm of the opinion that Gog descending upon Jerusalem is future but to be honest I haven't fully studied the Crusades in enough depth to see if they fit. They indeed fought with horses and swords back then and unless these are figurative (something you futurists abhor the very thought of), these weapons don't tend to fit our future unless the world is thrown back to the stone ages.
The great white throne judgment is for the unsaved. They are resurrected, judged and punished and yes, I believe this is still future. As far as I can tell, their souls will remain in Hades until judgment day. They did not take to Christ's preaching to them and the passage states that Death and Hades gives up their dead.
You don't want to take part in the second resurrection, that's for sure.
The great white throne judgment is for the unsaved. They are resurrected, judged and punished and yes, I believe this is still future. As far as I can tell, their souls will remain in Hades until judgment day. They did not take to Christ's preaching to them and the passage states that Death and Hades gives up their dead.
You don't want to take part in the second resurrection, that's for sure.
YOU ARE WRONG READ IT AGAIN.
Daniel 9:24-27 (ESV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. {THE END OF 69 WEEKS.}
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And after the sixty-two weeks, {THE BEGINNING OF THE GAP.} an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. {THE END OF THE GAP.}
[SUP]27 [/SUP] {THE BEGINNING OF THE 70th WEEK} And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”
IT HAS BEEN IN PLAIN SIGHT ALL ALONG.
Daniel 9:24-27 (ESV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. {THE END OF 69 WEEKS.}
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And after the sixty-two weeks, {THE BEGINNING OF THE GAP.} an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. {THE END OF THE GAP.}
[SUP]27 [/SUP] {THE BEGINNING OF THE 70th WEEK} And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”
IT HAS BEEN IN PLAIN SIGHT ALL ALONG.
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Babylonian Goddess Ishtar
Babylonian Goddess Ishtar
Roman Goddess of Freedom - Libertas
The caption said it was the Babylonian Goddess Ishtar, but with that
Egyptian medalion around her neck, it most likely is ISIS, a spin off of
the same PAGAN Religion.
For that blessed hope to apply to us, then they couldn't apply to them (Titus). How much hope would you have if I tell you that I'm coming over to take you to the ball game and I don't show up for 2,000 years?
Let me ask you this. If you were an unbeliever and lived next to a cemetery and the resurrection happened would you be seeing bodies coming up out of their graves? Think carefully, it's a trick question.
I agree, Hymenleaus and Phileteus where wrong.
Jesus will not physically rule from a man-made earthly temple. He makes that pretty clear.
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
Then of course there's this:
58 “We heard Him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.’”
Did Christ rebuild a literal temple in three days? If not, do you think we should spiritualize this passage? I know you don't like to do that (although you do it all the time).
Oh wait, I forget the best passage. Totally forgot about this gem. You have fun talking around this one good buddy
.48 “However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:
49 ‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the Lord,
Or what is the place of My rest?
50 Has My hand not made all these things?