Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

James 2:14 NASB
"14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?"

It's a rhetorical question--the answer being, 'no'. James says if someone says they have faith but no works, that faith can not save him. The scriptures are very clear indeed, as you point out. So why does the church disagree with James and says the faith of the person who has no works can save him?

Another misnomer is the words THE church.....on the earth are CHURCHES (plural) and again you are conflating and saying works are necessary by your very stance....the bible is clear....FAITH into the finished work of Christ on one's behalf is what SAVES not faith PLUS WORKS...

Are you a fool and bewitched?

O FOOLISH GALATINS who has bewitched you.....

HAVING begun in the spirit (by faith) are you now made perfect or complete by works?<---this is exactly what you are espousing and pushing.....

It is a gospel of different kind and has no power...Paul is clear....WE conclude a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the WORKS of the law......

NOT by works of righteousness which we HAVE DONE, but according to his mercy has HE SAVED US (past tense)

You can slice and dice any way you want.....faith and faith alone saves and justifies before GOD....works and fruit are the result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ as a redeemed blood bought son of GOD.....

KEEP applying works to faith for salvation = a café blend that has no power.......

 

[blue_ladybug]

*flies by*

*says hello*

*flies away*

Y'all be good now, ya hear?

 

[PHart]

Okay....so untangle and clearly state what it is you believe to be truth about how people are saved?

Is it by faith in Jesus or do you have to add to it before God will accept you as His child?

A person is justified the exact moment they accept by faith the blood of Jesus as payment for their sin debt. Righteous work plays no part whatsoever in securing that declaration of right standing with God.

Now the part where Christians seem to stop listening is the next part where this person's righteous work will be the evidence of that justification by faith that he possesses. The lack of that evidence shows that person does not have the justification by faith apart from works he thinks he has, and as a result, will be condemned at the judgment, not saved. But the church is so sure that James is wrong and that the person who says he has faith but has no works does have a faith that can save him.

 

[PHart]

... again you are conflating and saying works are necessary...

And, again, you simply can not hear what is being argued.

James says works are necessary to be saved, but you can only hear them as being necessary to earn salvation, instead of what is actually being argued that works are necessary for salvation only in that they confirm the presence of that which secures salvation all by itself--faith in Christ.

Is it breaking through yet? If you hang in here and purposely try to understand what is actually being said instead of what you think is being said you will begin to understand what James is saying. We know James is not lying--works are a necessary component of salvation.....just not the way you instantly think that has to mean. You and countless others seem incapable of being able to understand the necessity for works in salvation in a way where those works do not earn salvation itself.

 

[dcontroversal]

And, again, you simply can not hear what is being argued.

James says works are necessary to be saved, but you can only hear them as being necessary to earn salvation, instead of what is actually being argued that works are necessary for salvation only in that they confirm the presence of that which secures salvation all by itself--faith in Christ.

Is it breaking through yet? If you hang in here and purposely try to understand what is actually being said instead of what you think is being said you will begin to understand what James is saying. We know James is not lying--works are a necessary component of salvation.....just not the way you instantly think that has to mean. You and countless others seem incapable of being able to understand the necessity for works in salvation in a way where those works do not earn salvation itself.

No....not hardly pal...that is not what James is saying......and the same can be said of you.....the bible is clear...salvation is by faith...not works....works are the result of....

Saved unto not saved by....try again....works embellished faith has no power....

 

[Ariel82]

A person is justified the exact moment they accept by faith the blood of Jesus as payment for their sin debt. Righteous work plays no part whatsoever in securing that declaration of right standing with God.

Now the part where Christians seem to stop listening is the next part where this person's righteous work will be the evidence of that justification by faith that he possesses. The lack of that evidence shows that person does not have the justification by faith apart from works he thinks he has, and as a result, will be condemned at the judgment, not saved. But the church is so sure that James is wrong and that the person who says he has faith but has no works does have a faith that can save him.

The part I don't get is why you think only you understand what James is saying and why you attack the church and its teachings?

I can find a handful of quotes from others saying that works are a fruit of folks who have a saving faith. Which is what it seems you are saying...that a saving faith will produce works as God's kids will be lead by the Holy spirit to do the good works God created us to do. That is what you are saying isn't it?

The question would be what good works did the thief on the cross do? What good works are we called to do? Is it different for each person? Will babes be punished if they die before obvious fruits are seen by others?

 

[blue_ladybug]

P(hil) Hart(man) has been resurrected from the dead!! Lawdy, 'tis a miracle!!

 

[PHart]

No....not hardly pal...that is not what James is saying......and the same can be said of you.....the bible is clear...salvation is by faith...not works....works are the result of....

Saved unto not saved by....try again....works embellished faith has no power....

Thank you for showing me that it is a waste of time talking to you.
Maybe you can begin to hear what I'm actually saying, instead of only being able to hear what you're programmed to hear, if you sit this out and just read my posts to others.

 

[dcontroversal]

The part I don't get is why you think only you understand what James is saying and why you attack the church and its teachings?

I can find a handful of quotes from others saying that works are a fruit of folks who have a saving faith. Which is what it seems you are saying...that a saving faith will produce works as God's kids will be lead by the Holy spirit to do the good works God created us to do. That is what you are saying isn't it?

The question would be what good works did the thief on the cross do? What good works are we called to do? Is it different for each person? Will babes be punished if they die before obvious fruits are seen by others?

Amen and Jesus was clear....ALL believers have one work already....The is the work of the FATHER....that YOU BELIEVE ON HIM WHOM HE HAS SENT......

end of story.....

What good works do the saved have when their works are wood, hay and stubble....yet saved...

The end result is simple...faith saves and justifies period....even ONE cup of cold water in the name of Jesus is evidence....so...these fruit/work inspectors who blend faith and works FOR SALVATION are peddling a false café blend gospel with no power....Paul was clear in Galatians and Romans......

 

[dcontroversal]

Thank you for showing me that it is a waste of time talking to you.
Maybe you can begin to hear what I'm actually saying, instead of only being able to hear what you're programmed to hear, if you sit this out and just read my posts to others.

See the bolded....makes you fit the proverbs 6 grouping and judges me without knowing me...I can rightfully judge your café blend that requires works for salvation and the farce of only receiving salvation at the end....both views are false and miss the mark by about 5 light years.....

 

[dcontroversal]

P(hil) Hart(man) has been resurrected from the dead!! Lawdy, 'tis a miracle!!

Another worker for....cake taker who presumes to know my background while sweeping Paul under the table for the go to book out of context to require works for salvation.......another deceiver....

 

[PHart]

The part I don't get is why you think only you understand what James is saying and why you attack the church and its teachings?

Lol, no I'm not the only one who understands James. There are others right here in this thread who understand. But we are definitely in the minority. The church has been overtaken by this severe misunderstanding of Paul's faith vs. works teaching.

I can find a handful of quotes from others saying that works are a fruit of folks who have a saving faith. Which is what it seems you are saying...that a saving faith will produce works as God's kids will be lead by the Holy spirit to do the good works God created us to do. That is what you are saying isn't it?

That is what I'm saying. What I'm resisting is the church's misguided understanding that it is not necessary to have these works in order to be saved on the day of judgment, that dead faith also saves, which is in complete and utter contradiction to what James said and a contradiction which no one seems to want to explain.

The question would be what good works did the thief on the cross do?

No one is making a legalistic argument for the necessity for works. God is just. He judges according to what you've been given, and your ability to act on it. The thief can't even move his arms or legs, why would God expect him to suddenly have works to accompany his faith???? The problem I see is people using the thief on the cross as an excuse to do nothing with what their arms and legs and mouth can do.....and still think they have a faith that will save them.

What good works are we called to do?

It's all summed up in the fruit of the Spirit.

Is it different for each person?

In regard to the fundamental character that God expects people who have faith in him goes, no, it's not different for each person. We're all saved in order to be conformed to the image of Christ. Not anybody's else's image. It's about character. Not legalistic works.

Will babes be punished if they die before obvious fruits are seen by others?

Whatever it is that God expected their saving faith to produce in them at that time is what he will be looking for to confirm the presence of that saving faith. God is just. He does not expect a baby to walk like a man, but only to crawl as a baby would.

 

[Zmouth]

Amen and Jesus was clear....ALL believers have one work already....The is the work of the FATHER....that YOU BELIEVE ON HIM WHOM HE HAS SENT......

So if I believe on John then am I still saved since you say Jesus said believe on him who He has sent?

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 6:29

So if Jesus was God then he must not have been talking about himself since it is written in John 5:31
"If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."

The end result is simple...faith saves and justifies period....even ONE cup of cold water in the name of Jesus is evidence....so...these fruit/work inspectors who blend faith and works FOR SALVATION are peddling a false café blend gospel with no power....Paul was clear in Galatians and Romans......

So you saying we are suppose to believe on Paul?

John 1:6,

 

[Gabriel2020]

Yes indeed, In the book of James , he describes faith and works. The word of God has to be working in your life,and the manifestations of the word in you comes to light. the manifestations of those who do not walk by faith also come to light. that is what he meant by faith without works is dead. If the fruits of the spirit is not brought to ligt, then a person's faith is dead,which means he have no faith at all.

 

[preacher4truth]

So if I believe on John then am I still saved since you say Jesus said believe on him who He has sent?

The context is concerning Christ specifically, not John, surely you are aware of this.

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 6:29

Which is Christ contextually.

So if Jesus was God then he must not have been talking about himself since it is written in John 5:31
"If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."

Jesus is God, He is YHWH.

Again, context, and some further understanding on your part:

"I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. If I alone bear witness about myself, my testimony is not true. There is another who bears witness about me, and I know that the testimony that he bears about me is true.

 

[PHart]

See the bolded....makes you fit the proverbs 6 grouping and judges me without knowing me...I can rightfully judge your café blend that requires works for salvation and the farce of only receiving salvation at the end....both views are false and miss the mark by about 5 light years.....

Who told you I can not judge you by how you act and by what you believe? The church did, I presume. Right?

 

[dcontroversal]

So if I believe on John then am I still saved since you say Jesus said believe on him who He has sent?

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 6:29

So if Jesus was God then he must not have been talking about himself since it is written in John 5:31
"If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."




So you saying we are suppose to believe on Paul?

John 1:6,

Paul and John were inspired and gave the words of Jesus....this is nothing more than misdirection and a moot argument....

 

[dcontroversal]

Who told you I can not judge you by how you act and by what you believe? The church did, I presume. Right?

It seems that presume is your middle name....you keep trusting yourself and works...Paul was clear...if it is of works it is no longer grace....end of story....

 

[Zmouth]

The context is concerning Christ specifically, not John, surely you are aware of this. Which is Christ contextually.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. John 1:6

So who do you think that scripture was referring unto? Since context is everything....

Jesus is God, He is YHWH.

Again, context, and some further understanding on your part:

"I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. If I alone bear witness about myself, my testimony is not true. There is another who bears witness about me, and I know that the testimony that he bears about me is true.

LOL ok.....

I and my Father are one. John 10:30

If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. John 5:31

17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 8:17-18

 

[FranC]

James does not say that and the very verbiage of the bible states that salvation is a current possession with a continuing result from a past completed action.....

In the grace you are, having BEEN SAVED (past tense) out of faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a GIFT of GOD NOT OF WORKS lest any man may boast.....

and to your last statement....Jesus was clear....people like you who add works to faith for salvation will be in the plenteous in number that comes before him espousing and pushing the exact flavored false gospel that you push....only to find out that FAITH plus WORKS to acquire or maintain salvation was a false gospel with no power to save Galatians 1 and 3

FAITH alone SAVES....any work or fruit is the result OF the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ....

SAVED UNTO GOOD WORKS<--Ephesians

NOT

SAVED BY or KEPT SAVED by WORKS.....

It would be SOOOO nice if you stopped telling people they're going to hell. Always bringing up hell.
And to new persons too.
THIS is some way to show your faith.

You're Always saying that how you act is a RESULT of your faith.
How do YOU act?
Do YOU have faith?

"I'm looking at the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways"...
Michael Jackson

LEARN!