The Rapture
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Where was John when he saw this? Was he still in the spirit in heaven or had he gone back to earth?
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war...14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
I'm enjoying the marriage feast right now... I already have my white garments on, the door has been opened and I'm feasting on the word of God. 
There is our physical life, which will end, then there is our spiritual life that began at salvation and this life will never end. We've become "new men" (or women). We are already part of the kingdom having passed from death to life (1 John 3:14). The end of our physical lives is meaningless. We are all appointed to die physically. It's no big deal, losing this earthly tent. Yet, so many of our brethren on CC hope to avoid physical death by being "raptured." News flash: We will all die physically, everyone of us reading this. So, let not your heart be troubled.
It's sad, all these futurists are waiting for the kingdom not enjoying life already a part of the kingdom and the comfort and blessing of being in this fraternity of Saints.
John 15: 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Already our residence is in heaven, not this world. We don't have to wait for anything. We don't have to wait for a "rapture" or a resurrection. We have already been made "alive." The pre-trib rapture people do not understand the indwelling of the spirit. They say they do, but they clearly do not. They continue to wait and wait for something not appreciating that they already have it.
John 14: the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
Rom 8: 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
If you believe that, then as Steve Miller said, "You ain't seen nothin' yet! You just ain't seen nothin' yet!"
Nothing has taken place in the world that fits what Jesus said about that time:
"For then there will be great tribulation unequaled from the beginning of the world, until now and never to be equaled again."
It will be the worst time in the history of the entire world in regards to God's wrath. So bad that, by the time Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, most of the population will have been decimated, the oceans and fresh water will have been turned into literal blood, the islands and mountains will be gone, the cities of the nations will have collapsed and the earth will be one chaotic mess!
I repeat, you ain't seen nothing yet!
Nothing has taken place in the world that fits what Jesus said about that time:
"For then there will be great tribulation unequaled from the beginning of the world, until now and never to be equaled again."
It will be the worst time in the history of the entire world in regards to God's wrath. So bad that, by the time Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, most of the population will have been decimated, the oceans and fresh water will have been turned into literal blood, the islands and mountains will be gone, the cities of the nations will have collapsed and the earth will be one chaotic mess!
I repeat, you ain't seen nothing yet!
Here is the writings of Hegesippus where he discusses Daniel's prophesy of the destruction of Jerusalem (i.e., the great tribulation) and the "Abomination of Desolation. Hegesippus was perhaps the earliest church historian (110-180 AD, died in Jerusalem). According to him, Dan 9 is done.
"It is not a wonder," he said, "Iohannes, if you persist all the way to the destruction of the city, since divine aid has already abandoned it. But it is a wonder that you do not believe it is about to be destroyed, since you may read the prophetic books, in which the destruction of our country has been announced to you and and the restored greatness again destroyed by the Roman army. For what else does Daniel shout? He prophesized not indeed what had already been done but what would happen.
What is the abomination of devastation (desolation) which he proclaimed would be by the coming Romans, unless it is that which now threatens? What is that prophecy, which has been often recalled by us announced by God on high, that the city would be utterly destroyed at that time, when its fellow tribesmen will have been killed by the hands of the citizens, unless that which we see now being fulfilled? And perhaps, because it no longer pleases for the temple polluted with forbidden blood to be defended, it pleases that it be cleansed by fire."
"It is not a wonder," he said, "Iohannes, if you persist all the way to the destruction of the city, since divine aid has already abandoned it. But it is a wonder that you do not believe it is about to be destroyed, since you may read the prophetic books, in which the destruction of our country has been announced to you and and the restored greatness again destroyed by the Roman army. For what else does Daniel shout? He prophesized not indeed what had already been done but what would happen.
What is the abomination of devastation (desolation) which he proclaimed would be by the coming Romans, unless it is that which now threatens? What is that prophecy, which has been often recalled by us announced by God on high, that the city would be utterly destroyed at that time, when its fellow tribesmen will have been killed by the hands of the citizens, unless that which we see now being fulfilled? And perhaps, because it no longer pleases for the temple polluted with forbidden blood to be defended, it pleases that it be cleansed by fire."
Actually, that was Bachman Turner Overdrive. Are you gonna get anything right, LOL
?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFRk0FfaQi0
Which antichrist, there were many?
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
What else did John say? Did he say because Antichrist is coming that they can know that they were in the last hour. Last hour of what??? Last hours as a nation and of the entire Mosaic Age and the Law perhaps??? Works for me. What last hour did you think John was discussing, an hour 2,000 years from when he said it? If so, how could they have been "in the last hour?"
There were so many false christs and false prophets operating in Jerusalem and Samaria in those days that it is impossible to know which antichrist John was speaking about. It could have been Simon the Sorcerer who was mentioned in Acts 8. Or, it could have been the false prophet that led 6,000 to their deaths in 70 AD by taking them to the Temple just before it was set on fire.
If you are discussing the Man of Sin (2 Thes 2), that would be Titus. The one restraining him was Vespasian. Once Vespasian was "taken away" (back to Rome to become emperor, after the civil war in Rome, following the death of Nero) then Titus (the one who desolated Jerusalem) appeared. Titus stood in the Temple as it was burning, his troops made a sacrifice to him and worshiped him as God. The solders brought the ensigns of Caesar into the temple with their graven image of Caesar (who they declared was God).
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
What else did John say? Did he say because Antichrist is coming that they can know that they were in the last hour. Last hour of what??? Last hours as a nation and of the entire Mosaic Age and the Law perhaps??? Works for me. What last hour did you think John was discussing, an hour 2,000 years from when he said it? If so, how could they have been "in the last hour?"
There were so many false christs and false prophets operating in Jerusalem and Samaria in those days that it is impossible to know which antichrist John was speaking about. It could have been Simon the Sorcerer who was mentioned in Acts 8. Or, it could have been the false prophet that led 6,000 to their deaths in 70 AD by taking them to the Temple just before it was set on fire.
If you are discussing the Man of Sin (2 Thes 2), that would be Titus. The one restraining him was Vespasian. Once Vespasian was "taken away" (back to Rome to become emperor, after the civil war in Rome, following the death of Nero) then Titus (the one who desolated Jerusalem) appeared. Titus stood in the Temple as it was burning, his troops made a sacrifice to him and worshiped him as God. The solders brought the ensigns of Caesar into the temple with their graven image of Caesar (who they declared was God).
The Abomination that Causes Desolation Explained
How the Greek (2nd Century B.C.) and Roman Armies (1st Century A.D.) with Their Idols of Zeus Literally fulfill All Bible Prophecies Concerning the Abomination that Causes Desolation
The Literal Fulfillment of the Abomination that Causes Desolation: Summary and Highlights
The abomination that causes desolation can be defined by comparing Matthew 24:15-16 with Luke 21:20-21. The abomination that causes desolation is the Greek army of the second century B.C. and the Roman army of the first century A.D. with their foreign idols of Zeus and Jupiter, the Roman name for Zeus, that literally caused the desolation of Jerusalem. During the Maccabean Wars, the Greek army left Jerusalem desolate and placed an idol of Zeus on the Temple altar. During the Jewish War, Rome also laid waste to Israel. During the seven-year long war with Rome which truly ended at the fall of Masada on Passover of A.D. 74, the Roman army under Titus, the future emperor of Rome, besieged Jerusalem. In the very middle of this war, Titus put an end to sacrifice and offering by destroying Jerusalem and its Temple, and set up the Roman ensigns which were idols of Zeus and Rome on the eastern wing of the Temple in fulfillment of Daniel 9:26-27: “The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. . . . He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
1,290 days from the termination of the regular sacrifice to Caesar in A.D. 66, the Roman army, the Abomination that Causes Desolation, arrived at Jerusalem on Shabbat of A.D. 70 fulfilling Daniel 12:11: “From the time that the regular [daily] sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.” Then in fulfillment of Daniel 12:12, there were 1335 days between the cessation of the regular sacrifice to Caesar and the beginning of the siege of Jerusalem. On the 9th of Av of A.D. 70, the Roman army infiltrated the Temple, set up the idols of Jupiter and Rome on the eastern gate and terminated the daily sacrifice by burning the Temple. 1335 days from this event is the 16th of Nisan of A.D. 74, the first day of peace after the fall of Masada (15th of Nisan in A.D. 74) at the end of the war: “How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!” (Daniel 12:12)
How the Greek (2nd Century B.C.) and Roman Armies (1st Century A.D.) with Their Idols of Zeus Literally fulfill All Bible Prophecies Concerning the Abomination that Causes Desolation
The Literal Fulfillment of the Abomination that Causes Desolation: Summary and Highlights
The abomination that causes desolation can be defined by comparing Matthew 24:15-16 with Luke 21:20-21. The abomination that causes desolation is the Greek army of the second century B.C. and the Roman army of the first century A.D. with their foreign idols of Zeus and Jupiter, the Roman name for Zeus, that literally caused the desolation of Jerusalem. During the Maccabean Wars, the Greek army left Jerusalem desolate and placed an idol of Zeus on the Temple altar. During the Jewish War, Rome also laid waste to Israel. During the seven-year long war with Rome which truly ended at the fall of Masada on Passover of A.D. 74, the Roman army under Titus, the future emperor of Rome, besieged Jerusalem. In the very middle of this war, Titus put an end to sacrifice and offering by destroying Jerusalem and its Temple, and set up the Roman ensigns which were idols of Zeus and Rome on the eastern wing of the Temple in fulfillment of Daniel 9:26-27: “The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. . . . He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
1,290 days from the termination of the regular sacrifice to Caesar in A.D. 66, the Roman army, the Abomination that Causes Desolation, arrived at Jerusalem on Shabbat of A.D. 70 fulfilling Daniel 12:11: “From the time that the regular [daily] sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.” Then in fulfillment of Daniel 12:12, there were 1335 days between the cessation of the regular sacrifice to Caesar and the beginning of the siege of Jerusalem. On the 9th of Av of A.D. 70, the Roman army infiltrated the Temple, set up the idols of Jupiter and Rome on the eastern gate and terminated the daily sacrifice by burning the Temple. 1335 days from this event is the 16th of Nisan of A.D. 74, the first day of peace after the fall of Masada (15th of Nisan in A.D. 74) at the end of the war: “How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!” (Daniel 12:12)
So simple PW.
And of course, such an amazing array of prophecies perfectly fulfilled.
So perfect that the "scholars" all try and claim that the Book Of Daniel could never have been written circa 550BC
Prophecy fulfilled is the witness of Christ, the Spirit of Prophecy.
That is why some of us get gnarly over attempts to swat away these perfect prophecies, and create some ridiculous Heath Robinson Prophetic structure for modern times.
And of course, such an amazing array of prophecies perfectly fulfilled.
So perfect that the "scholars" all try and claim that the Book Of Daniel could never have been written circa 550BC
Prophecy fulfilled is the witness of Christ, the Spirit of Prophecy.
That is why some of us get gnarly over attempts to swat away these perfect prophecies, and create some ridiculous Heath Robinson Prophetic structure for modern times.
Lie. The people who are alive when the Lord comes to get His own will NOT die physically. Also Enoch and Elijah did not die physically.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
More madness, confusion and chaos. PW why do you keep quoting the gospel of Josephus which is no Gospel at all?
Josephus and his writings are like the preterist version of the book of mormon, they carry it along with their bibles and make it fit.
Stop it, stop robbing people of their BLESSED HOPE.
[h=1]Titus 2:13[/h][FONT="]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;[/FONT]
Josephus and his writings are like the preterist version of the book of mormon, they carry it along with their bibles and make it fit.
Stop it, stop robbing people of their BLESSED HOPE.
[h=1]Titus 2:13[/h][FONT="]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;[/FONT]
The Holy Spirit (not Paul thoughts or will) does not speak in a vacuum what he says to one beliver he says to the whole church ,it all one letter (the Bible) written by one author(God) written to those who will believe to the salvation of thier soul. Without parables(allegorizing) Christ spoke not.
He does the allegorizing we do the beleiveing... having faith in resepct to the allegorizing.
He does the allegorizing we do the beleiveing... having faith in resepct to the allegorizing.
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Luke 21:20 (ESV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
I think the KEY WORD to understanding which time He is talking about is ARMIES, plural. Yes in 70 A.D. The Roman Army, singular ecompassed the City, in a seige, and after their victory, they tore down every single block of the Temple. But the attack coming SEVERAL ARMIES AT ONCE, has not happened yet. but it will NEAR His Second Coming:
Zechariah 14:2-3 (ESV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.
Revelation 19:11-14 (ESV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.
Revelation 19:19 (ESV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
I think the KEY WORD to understanding which time He is talking about is ARMIES, plural. Yes in 70 A.D. The Roman Army, singular ecompassed the City, in a seige, and after their victory, they tore down every single block of the Temple. But the attack coming SEVERAL ARMIES AT ONCE, has not happened yet. but it will NEAR His Second Coming:
Zechariah 14:2-3 (ESV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.
Revelation 19:11-14 (ESV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.
Revelation 19:19 (ESV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army.
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Did Enoch and Elijah read what I wrote? They were the only two exceptions to the below rule:
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.
As for the people who were alive when Christ returned in 70 AD, where does it say they won't die physically? I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of 1 Cor 15 and what really happened then.
When was "death swallowed up in victory?"
"when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying..."
What does it mean for corruptible to put on incorruption? This happened to the dead in Christ at the resurrection, right? But it also happens to the living at the same time, right? It says so right here.
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.
What was the change? It isn't the physical body becoming a spiritual body. It is the dead spirit inside becoming a living spirit. When did this happen? Keep reading.
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
This happened when the Law ended. The strength of sin ended because the Law ended in 70 AD when the Temple was destroyed for the last time. All the saints who died up to that point were resurrected and finally could be admitted to heaven with their new glorified bodies. Christ has "Keys to Hades and Death" (Rev 1:18). He freed them back then. They are no longer in Hades waiting.
The living who were saved when Christ returned had their souls transformed so that they would not have to go to Hades (Sheol) first which had always been the case before this. So now when we die physically, we immediately go to heaven. Those who die today literally "step out" of their dead physical corpse and are immediately in new glorified spiritual bodies and this is how we go to heaven.
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.
As for the people who were alive when Christ returned in 70 AD, where does it say they won't die physically? I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of 1 Cor 15 and what really happened then.
When was "death swallowed up in victory?"
"when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying..."
What does it mean for corruptible to put on incorruption? This happened to the dead in Christ at the resurrection, right? But it also happens to the living at the same time, right? It says so right here.
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.
What was the change? It isn't the physical body becoming a spiritual body. It is the dead spirit inside becoming a living spirit. When did this happen? Keep reading.
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
This happened when the Law ended. The strength of sin ended because the Law ended in 70 AD when the Temple was destroyed for the last time. All the saints who died up to that point were resurrected and finally could be admitted to heaven with their new glorified bodies. Christ has "Keys to Hades and Death" (Rev 1:18). He freed them back then. They are no longer in Hades waiting.
The living who were saved when Christ returned had their souls transformed so that they would not have to go to Hades (Sheol) first which had always been the case before this. So now when we die physically, we immediately go to heaven. Those who die today literally "step out" of their dead physical corpse and are immediately in new glorified spiritual bodies and this is how we go to heaven.
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