Christ is God

[beta]

Yes they are!
Why did Jesus not rebuke Peter when he called him Lord?
In a hurry, can't find the verse

Are you ref to Joh 13 ? Jesus said to Peter 'He was his Lord and Master'....do you read it to mean that Jesus was Peter's God ? I don't think it says that v13, 14.
Most times throughout the disciples time with Jesus it seemed to refer to a Master and servant relationship...don't you think ? I feel we have to start small from a humanly understood level....man to man like loving the man Jesus (God as Man) and loving neighbour Mk 12v29-31
...and what better opportunity than becoming one of Jesus' disciples with Him 24/7.
Seems Christians need to rise to that level yet, not claiming the HS while still disobedient.

 

[posthuman]

Not wishing to argue or get lost - just giving you scripture - and it is important because the slightest 'deviation from it can lead to confusion.
I use the KJV which says 'the SON was in the bosom of the Father'. You use a different Bible ?

"bosom" ≠ "womb"

But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter.
(2 Samuel 12:3) ​

 

[posthuman]

If Jesus and the HS are 'attached to the supreme(Almighty) God' How can He send them to earth for our benefit ? would God not have to 'cut off both His arms ? do you realise the consequences of that even spiritually ? don't be offended, give it some thought.

do you imagine that God is human, that you can only understand His ways as though they are human ways and comprehend His body as though it is flesh and His person as though it is the like the person of men?

next you will become a mormon, and declare God has a goddess wife by whom the Son was born ((as a matter of course to human reckoning)), that Jesus was created, then exalted to 'godhood' ???

you are talking about omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God as though He is subject to time and space - the Creator of time and of space, like He is confined by those things! the heaven of the heavens can't contain Him, but He can't be two places at once? He is before all things and every thing in heaven and on earth that is created was created by Him; by Him all things hold together, but He is held together by created things?

in Him the fullness of God dwells bodily. not *almost* the fullness, not *half* the fullness, not *a sprinkling* of the fullness. & no, it sure doesn't make sense if He is mortal man.

I -- I am Jehovah, And besides Me there is no saviour.
(Isaiah 43:11)

looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus
(Titus 2:13)​

without controversy great is the mystery; greater still our God

 

[beta]

do you imagine that God is human, that you can only understand His ways as though they are human ways and comprehend His body as though it is flesh and His person as though it is the like the person of men?

next you will become a mormon, and declare God has a goddess wife by whom the Son was born ((as a matter of course to human reckoning)), that Jesus was created, then exalted to 'godhood' ???

you are talking about omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God as though He is subject to time and space - the Creator of time and of space, like He is confined by those things! the heaven of the heavens can't contain Him, but He can't be two places at once? He is before all things and every thing in heaven and on earth that is created was created by Him; by Him all things hold together, but He is held together by created things?

in Him the fullness of God dwells bodily. not *almost* the fullness, not *half* the fullness, not *a sprinkling* of the fullness. & no, it sure doesn't make sense if He is mortal man.

I -- I am Jehovah, And besides Me there is no saviour.
(Isaiah 43:11)

looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus
(Titus 2:13)​

without controversy great is the mystery; greater still our God

There is me talking 'as to Babes and Infants who have not yet the advanced knowledge you espouse....nothing wrong with it of course except we are to learn from scratch , which should be simple.

 

[beta]

"bosom" ≠ "womb"

But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter.
(2 Samuel 12:3) ​

I think the little word 'as' makes all the difference.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Are you ref to Joh 13 ? Jesus said to Peter 'He was his Lord and Master'....do you read it to mean that Jesus was Peter's God ? I don't think it says that v13, 14.
Most times throughout the disciples time with Jesus it seemed to refer to a Master and servant relationship...don't you think ? I feel we have to start small from a humanly understood level....man to man like loving the man Jesus (God as Man) and loving neighbour Mk 12v29-31
...and what better opportunity than becoming one of Jesus' disciples with Him 24/7.
Seems Christians need to rise to that level yet, not claiming the HS while still disobedient.

...and Thomas?

[SUP]28 [/SUP]“My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.

 

[beta]

...and Thomas?

[SUP]28 [/SUP]“My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.

Well now - I don't know what to make of Thomas...he is another one Jesus was rather ..let's say...disappointed in when Jesus more or less said to him that he was not among the 'blessed...because he(Thomas only believed because he saw and touched Jesus....and that is not really Faith but plain Fact. Joh 20v29.
Btw...Christianity built their Faith and religion on 'Jesus having been SEEN AFTER He was resurrected and they pin their Belief on that FACT. Something else for people to think about.

 

[oldethennew]

DR, and BETA,

We don't claim to have all the answers to the mystery of the 'Godhead', but we certainly
don't buy all that was put together at the council of Nicea by very fallible men.
JOHN 1.1 - In the beginning was The Word and The Word was with God and The Word was God.
MARK 12.29 . - And Jesus answered him, The first of all the Commandments is, Hear, O Israel;
The LORD our God is One Lord...They seem to be bound together by the blood of the Spirit,
if you will, and as Post Human', put it, able to manifest in two or more places at once.

the debate has been going-on for hundreds of years - this mystery/debate cannot be resolved,
because there is NOT enough information given to us in the scriptures...but, it is certain that
God, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the 'same mind and purpose'...

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Well now - I don't know what to make of Thomas...he is another one Jesus was rather ..let's say...disappointed in when Jesus more or less said to him that he was not among the 'blessed...because he(Thomas only believed because he saw and touched Jesus....and that is not really Faith but plain Fact. Joh 20v29.
Btw...Christianity built their Faith and religion on 'Jesus having been SEEN AFTER He was resurrected and they pin their Belief on that FACT. Something else for people to think about.

Never mind Thomas himself, my point was, if Jesus was not God, why not rebuke Thomas?
Surely if someone said "my Lady and Goddess" (in all earnestness) to you you would tell them they had the wrong idea,
why didn't Jesus?

 

[Grace777x70]

The deity of Christ is a core Christian belief and CC considers it an essential of the true Christian faith.

Quote:

I guess I assumed everyone knew what the essentials are...

Here are examples of the essentials...
(Thise are here to give a general idea of what is essential to the faith, it's not a comprehensive doctrinal statement from this site.)

1. The deity of Jesus.
2. The inspiration and authority of the Bible as found in the 66 books of the Bible.
3. Faith in the crucixition, death and resurrection of Jesus is the only way to reconcile you to relationship with God.
4. Jesus is coming back again!
5. Believers should seek to live for God and not the world.

I may have missed some, but that should give you an idea.

Timing of end times events isn't an essential. Calvinism vs non calvinism isn't an essential. Which version of the Bible to read isn't generally an essential, unless it's a version made by a sect that teaches against the esssentials of the faith.

Those should give you an idea. That list isn't comphrensive. If you have a question about something, send me a CC mail and I'll get back to you on it.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/5738-when-you-have-concerns-about-vibrant-heated-discussions-please-read.html

 

[beta]

DR, and BETA

God, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the 'same mind and purpose'...

I am happy to agree with that ! They are of ONE Mind/Spirit - which is what unites them.

 

[beta]

Never mind Thomas himself, my point was, if Jesus was not God, why not rebuke Thomas?
Surely if someone said "my Lady and Goddess" (in all earnestness) to you you would tell them they had the wrong idea,
why didn't Jesus?

Because Jesus is come in 'His Fathers name' Jesus is acting on His Fathers behalf---Jesus is not the Father...but as His Fathers Representative Jesus is for now 'God with us !
Have you not read how He will hand it all back to His Father and SUBMIT also HIMself 1Cor 15v25-28.

 

[graceNpeace]

Because Jesus is come in 'His Fathers name' Jesus is acting on His Fathers behalf---Jesus is not the Father...but as His Fathers Representative Jesus is for now 'God with us !
Have you not read how He will hand it all back to His Father and SUBMIT also HIMself 1Cor 15v25-28.

So, then, who or what ,was Jesus exactly if He is not God?

 

[beta]

So, then, who or what ,was Jesus exactly if He is not God?

Didn't I just answer that somewhere ?
'Jesus is the Son of God' - just as Himself said in Joh 10v36.

 

[graceNpeace]

Didn't I just answer that somewhere ?
'Jesus is the Son of God' - just as Himself said in Joh 10v36.

It is nothing more than a title, just like "the Son of Man."
Calling Him the Son of God does not explain WHO and WHAT He is if He is not God to you.

 

[FGT]

It is nothing more than a title, just like "the Son of Man."
Calling Him the Son of God does not explain WHO and WHAT He is if He is not God to you.

Is the name of God, Jesus Christ?

 

[graceNpeace]

Is the name of God, Jesus Christ?

Let's see what beta has to say...

 

[posthuman]

Well now - I don't know what to make of Thomas...he is another one Jesus was rather ..let's say...disappointed in

really?

so, like, you are ready to totally chuck out the things Christ said when He prayed in Gethsemane - about how He loved His disciples, and kept them, except the son of perdition -- you would lump Thomas in with Judas?

because?

because you don't like the idea that Thomas called Him "my God" -- so you're prepared to doubt Thomas' salvation? or just to say "well Thomas was surely lying and/or just stupid to have called Him that" ?

for the sake of your argument that Christ is not God?

how interesting, the lengths a person will go to!

when Jesus more or less said to him that he was not among the 'blessed...because he(Thomas only believed because he saw and touched Jesus....and that is not really Faith but plain Fact.

i think you're forgetting something.

Then Jesus turned to the disciples and said privately,
"Blessed are the eyes that see what you see."
(Luke 10:23)
​

Jesus said this to Thomas. He calls him blessed.

blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.
(Matthew 13:16)​

and something else Christ also said, to Thomas --

See, I have told you ahead of time.
So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
(Matthew 24:25-26)
​

wow, how coincidental!
some people literally told Thomas, "here He is, in the inner rooms"
and Thomas didn't immediately believe them.
wow! do you think maybe Thomas had paid attention to the Lord and was doing what He had instructed him to do???

oh yeah, you don't, because Thomas clearly calls Him God, therefore you need to denigrate Thomas' character.

but Christ didn't feel the need to accuse Thomas. in fact, Christ obliged Thomas, knowing what was in His heart. it was important enough for God to do this, and for it to be recorded.

hmm why wasn't Thomas rebuked?
seems like some people would have -- so why didn't Jesus?

maybe omnipotent, omniscient God knows better


[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
a singularly un-convincing argument for deleting John 10:28, beta.
interesting, but quite flimsy and indefensible.
you need to deal with why Jesus did not rebuke him.

 

[beta]

really?

so, like, you are ready to totally chuck out the things Christ said when He prayed in Gethsemane - about how He loved His disciples, and kept them, except the son of perdition -- you would lump Thomas in with Judas?

because?

because you don't like the idea that Thomas called Him "my God" -- so you're prepared to doubt Thomas' salvation? or just to say "well Thomas was surely lying and/or just stupid to have called Him that" ?

for the sake of your argument that Christ is not God?

how interesting, the lengths a person will go to!



i think you're forgetting something.

Then Jesus turned to the disciples and said privately,
"Blessed are the eyes that see what you see."
(Luke 10:23)
​

Jesus said this to Thomas. He calls him blessed.

blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.
(Matthew 13:16)​

and something else Christ also said, to Thomas --

See, I have told you ahead of time.
So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
(Matthew 24:25-26)
​

wow, how coincidental!
some people literally told Thomas, "here He is, in the inner rooms"
and Thomas didn't immediately believe them.
wow! do you think maybe Thomas had paid attention to the Lord and was doing what He had instructed him to do???

oh yeah, you don't, because Thomas clearly calls Him God, therefore you need to denigrate Thomas' character.

but Christ didn't feel the need to accuse Thomas. in fact, Christ obliged Thomas, knowing what was in His heart. it was important enough for God to do this, and for it to be recorded.

hmm why wasn't Thomas rebuked?
seems like some people would have -- so why didn't Jesus?

maybe omnipotent, omniscient God knows better


[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
a singularly un-convincing argument for deleting John 10:28, beta.
interesting, but quite flimsy and indefensible.
you need to deal with why Jesus did not rebuke him.

Have you done now ? letting your imagination run riot ? putting words in people's mouth ?
I was simply making ref to the point Joh 20v29 was being discussed. There are always more scriptures to elaborate on....but what Jesus said to Thomas here has some significance.
Not going to argue and blowing things out of proportion. I have explained the position of Jesus as I see it elsewhere.

 

[joefizz]

Dear child,beta(yes I said child,you may be in your 80s yet you are still a child in christ,clearly)you seem to not grasp "how" to read the bible,the bible is to be read along side the holy spirit,in a spiritual sense,not natural sense to be even remotely understood,the dispute here is that you believe that Jesus and God are not one and the same,because you read the scriptures,"naturally" like a simple book,Jesus was indeed born here on earth,but he was God made flesh,true they referred to each other as father and son,but they were all one and are still one,for if Jesus wasn't God then how did he not sin? for it is written there are none good no not one like wise none righteous,and if Jesus were a mere "man" then why did satan,not attempt to kill him nor hurt him? true God could still protect him but God never made himself known in the exchange of words,so God had to be Jesus,for God would have surely spoken if Jesus was not almighty,needing God's help,you see in the "natural" sense you could determine,jesus was a man whom was born as a child to mary,but in the "spiritual" sense you'd discover certain red flags telling you that Jesus was clearly God,for example how did Jesus know and preach and teach many scriptures,as a child,if he wasn't God made flesh,for even mary and joseph wondered how he knew so much of scriptures,since clearly they didn't teach him them,also is it not written"that a house divided against itself can't stand" if God was divided in power or in body then how is it that neither God nor Jesus were attacked by the devil during Jesus's walk in life? because to simplify"is nothing too hard for God" or better yet"with God all things are possible",well hope you have been saved and baptized and will study alongside the holy spirit next time you read the "bible" otherwise affectionately known as" "God's word" but yes "in the beginning was the word and the word was God" as in "truth" and Jesus is "the way,the "truth" and the light" so once again both are the Word/Truth thereby both are one,also don't forget the "holy spirit"/ghost he too is God,tis why today we call them the "trinity" for it is no idle words when "someone" is baptized in the name of the "father" the "son" and" the holy spirit/ghost for all are one but God as respect to himself,is only known as the "one who is greater"so as to know whom above all names is to be praised and given glory,that's all,try to think "spiritually" alongside the holy spirit then you'll begin to "truly" understand what you read in the bible,on a final note,good choice in bibles,my church uses only king james version too,that should make things go even smoother for you,in my opinion!