Not By Works

[Rosemaryx]

Ariel - If I express my point of view, the logical framework as to why I make certain conclusions,
I am sinning and lying.

If I talk about being in communion with God and knowing emotional spiritual and closeness to our King
I am being too emotional.

If I try and understand anothers theology in a structured way I am projecting on to them.

I see the theme being followed, so God bless you.
I think you need to learn how to bless rather than correct, because your corrections are more
about your style of presenting what you believe than actually being a valid proposition.

I have a simple hierarchy of righteousness. Behaviour followed by faith.
If people deny behaviour they are simply corrupt, evil people. You want to defend such as this,
so it is your fellowship and funeral.

The great thing about God is morality is that simple. Hallelujah, a child can work out what love
actually is.

Hi PeterJens...We can never WORK out what love is, for God is LOVE, He teaches us how to love , He has taught me how to love things i once hated, people i once hated, He has taught me how to love, i have not WORKED for that, He fills me up with His love through His Spirit...xox...And my behavior comes from FAITH, so what you are saying is, if i sin and fall short to the Glory of God because i did not behave in the manner to God i am doomed to death, that just right now scared me, but then the Holy Sprite says to me that Jesus died for me and i am a child of God, if i was feeling weak, your condemnation would of thrown me under the bus, but thank God, Jesus has saved me from such an insult...Faith brings good behavior, not behavior bringing Faith...Lord have Mercy...xox...

 

[JIMBO43]

No I had a headache before reading your comment. Its better now though.

yeah but thats the second time you said that to me,,,,,,,,,,,,,im not your angony aunt lol

 

[Ariel82]

yeah but thats the second time you said that to me,,,,,,,,,,,,,im not your angony aunt lol

But if you pray for me, I will feel better right?

At least I will have someone praying for me and that will make me spiritually feel better even if my physical ailments persist.

But I will try not to tell you next time if it bugs you.

 

[LoveGodForever]

But if you pray for me, I will feel better right?

At least I will have someone praying for me and that will make me spiritually feel better even if my physical ailments persist.

But I will try not to tell you next time if it bugs you.

Are you drinking enough water? I know if I don't drink enough water I always get headaches

God Bless you

 

[JIMBO43]

But if you pray for me, I will feel better right?

At least I will have someone praying for me and that will make me spiritually feel better even if my physical ailments persist.

But I will try not to tell you next time if it bugs you.

well you did like my post when i said forgive me for your first headache i can only assume that you did..


and then when you mention i give you a second headach lol i can only assume i caused you another one accept i wasnt meaning to onlt state whats truth about repntance..


ill pray you hear my prayer tonight

 

[BillG]

Future sin forgiven

This is such a tempting belief.
If future sin is forgiven why does Paul say we have no condemnation because we walk in the
Spirit but not if we walk in the flesh.

Why did he call the corinthians to repentance over their sin?
Why were the church called to overcome and walk in victory or have the right to be in the
Kingdom taken away?

As I suspected Ariel really agrees with the rest and was faking talking about empathy, when
in reality she need security or else her lifestyle causes too much stress to cope with.

I do not know if this is spiritual contamination, but if you call the apostate as brothers, you
enter into their wicked works. As John describes,

Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.
2 John 1:11

Sin is always seductive, and excusing it, the whisper in the ear. And when you start to hear
such whispers are a daily occurence, what can one conclude.

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
2 John 1:6

Now think about this. What sinful actions can you freely effect? The ones in the future.
Which is a real test of your walk in the Lord? That you resist temptation and become
a follower and overcomer.

But it is by abiding in Christ, in His word and in His love, letting it flow out to others.
What is easy is to create the feeling of security when we are always contrite, humble
servants of the King, whose name is to be forever praised.

I would say future sin is forgiven.

All sins were laid on Jesus on the cross and when he died and said it finished, it is truly finished.
Temple curtain torn in two, we come before God through faith and we have peace with him.
He is the one who declared peace and we have to accept the offer.

We do that through Jesus.

Even though I believe my future sins are forgiven it does not give me a license to sin.
God forbid I fall foul of Romans 6.

But as and when I do get it wrong I come before God, confess I got it wrong, ask for his help and thank him he has forgiven me.

What I find intersting quite often when Paul addresses issues in the church it tends to be along the lines of

"Whoa wait a minute, this is what YOU WERE, but you have been justified, declared righteous and been sanctified and this is what you are now. So walk in it.

Romans 8:34
Who then will condemn us? No one—for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us, and he is sitting in the place of honor at God’s right hand, pleading for us.

Hebrews 10:12
But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.


Hebrews 10:16-18


“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

 

[BillG]

yeah but thats the second time you said that to me,,,,,,,,,,,,,im not your angony aunt lol

you can't be an agony aunt cause your male.

 

[LoveGodForever]

I would say future sin is forgiven.

All sins were laid on Jesus on the cross and when he died and said it finished, it is truly finished.
Temple curtain torn in two, we come before God through faith and we have peace with him.
He is the one who declared peace and we have to accept the offer.

We do that through Jesus.

Even though I believe my future sins are forgiven it does not give me a license to sin.
God forbid I fall foul of Romans 6.

But as and when I do get it wrong I come before God, confess I got it wrong, ask for his help and thank him he has forgiven me.

What I find intersting quite often when Paul addresses issues in the church it tends to be along the lines of

"Whoa wait a minute, this is what YOU WERE, but you have been justified, declared righteous and been sanctified and this is what you are now. So walk in it.

Romans 8:34
Who then will condemn us? No one—for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us, and he is sitting in the place of honor at God’s right hand, pleading for us.

Hebrews 10:12
But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Hebrews 10:16-18

“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

Hi BillG nice to meet you here in CC

Our future sins are only forgiven on the conditions of God's Word.....

"If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1John 1:9)

Our faith in God's Word allows Jesus to do the healing in our lives. This same faith and belief in God's Word changes the sinner into a child of God allowing us to walk in newness of life. I life the follows Jesus...

"For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you." (John 3:15)

"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us,10 leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth." (1Pet 2:21-22).

If you see your Faith in God's Word is not changing your life to free you from sin and you are continuing to knowingly sin, you do not have the faith of Jesus (God's Word).

God bless you

 

[FlSnookman7]

Well, since Jesus was on that cross over 2000 years ago His sacrifice must include future sins as we weren't even born yet but we are forgiven once saved.....just sayin.

 

[LoveGodForever]

"He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy." (Prov 28:13)

 

[PeterJens]

Hi PeterJens...We can never WORK out what love is, for God is LOVE, He teaches us how to love , He has taught me how to love things i once hated, people i once hated, He has taught me how to love, i have not WORKED for that, He fills me up with His love through His Spirit...xox...And my behavior comes from FAITH, so what you are saying is, if i sin and fall short to the Glory of God because i did not behave in the manner to God i am doomed to death, that just right now scared me, but then the Holy Sprite says to me that Jesus died for me and i am a child of God, if i was feeling weak, your condemnation would of thrown me under the bus, but thank God, Jesus has saved me from such an insult...Faith brings good behavior, not behavior bringing Faith...Lord have Mercy...xox...

Hi Rose,

I do not like theology that creates this level of conflict.
I feel your heart and I know it is good. That is enough for me.

I truly think we experience different spiritual realities in our walk and when we
put "theology" around it, it means different things to different people.

I see why people want security in Christ or even that the love of Christ will save
everyone, and all manner of variations of these concepts. I feel it is the fruit of
the theology that in each bears the fruit of the Holy Spirit or the flesh.

We can often choose the slant we want to accept on different verses, so it is actually
very subjective. Now I love people on different sides of the fences, and I want it to stay
that way. So please just accept I love our Lord and desire to bring His love and freedom
into peoples lives.

What is so odd to me is people who claim to know this love but want to condemn and turn
something into an condemning evil crusade without the knowledge of the power of the cross
and love itself. When people encounter Christ, the light goes on, so may we all in our various
emphasis, see this happen so that this dark world might see the great light of His Kingdom.

So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, [SUP]12 [/SUP]to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up [SUP]13 [/SUP]until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Eph 4:11-13

We are called to works of service, so let us press on to our calling, for in the lost
world, only the enemy would want us to fight among ourselves.

 

[dcontroversal]

I would say future sin is forgiven.

All sins were laid on Jesus on the cross and when he died and said it finished, it is truly finished.
Temple curtain torn in two, we come before God through faith and we have peace with him.
He is the one who declared peace and we have to accept the offer.

We do that through Jesus.

Even though I believe my future sins are forgiven it does not give me a license to sin.
God forbid I fall foul of Romans 6.

But as and when I do get it wrong I come before God, confess I got it wrong, ask for his help and thank him he has forgiven me.

What I find intersting quite often when Paul addresses issues in the church it tends to be along the lines of

"Whoa wait a minute, this is what YOU WERE, but you have been justified, declared righteous and been sanctified and this is what you are now. So walk in it.

Romans 8:34
Who then will condemn us? No one—for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us, and he is sitting in the place of honor at God’s right hand, pleading for us.

Hebrews 10:12
But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.


Hebrews 10:16-18


“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

AMEN....the conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit is BECAUSE THEY DO NOT BELIEVE ON ME..JESUS was and is the PAYMENT (propitiation) for our sin....WHEN he said it is finished he was clear...PAID IN FULL is exactly what that means......and when his blood is applied by FAITH the righteousness of GOD is put to our account (imputed) Romans 4 (DAVID described accurately).........instead of being condemned for our sin, it falls under grace....not to say we will not be whipped if we continue in sin (chastisement for believers) but forgiven nonetheless.....!

 

[LoveGodForever]

Ariel - If I express my point of view, the logical framework as to why I make certain conclusions,

I have a simple hierarchy of righteousness. Behaviour followed by faith.

If people deny behaviour they are simply corrupt, evil people. You want to defend such as this,
so it is your fellowship and funeral.

The great thing about God is morality is that simple. Hallelujah, a child can work out what love
actually is.

Hi Peter, maybe this statement above in bold has caused some confusion for some people. Maybe it was a typo? I don't know, but it is our Faith in God's Word that modifies our behavior as Jesus works in us and changes our heart....

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually works also in you that believe." (1Thess 2:13)

Loved the Wesley statements shared today by everyone.

God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

I would say future sin is forgiven.

Bill, we know each others hearts. Future sin forgiven, if you believe this fine.
I have no problem with anyones interpretation just how it links to behaviour.

If our hearts are dedicated to love and righteousness, the life blood of the Kingdom,
then amen. If people feel secure in Christ while walking in faith, amen.

Where evil comes in is when a certain legalistic view becomes if you do not accept
security in Christ under these concepts you do not know God and are preaching legalism,
and are a worker of satan.

I could if I wanted pick any number of theological positions and say they alone show the
true elect from the rest, but I do not, because the way of Christ is loving and learning to
walk deeper in this.

I used to think there was some deeper reality I was going to discover, rather than it being
openness, and a loving heart, being able to take the blows and just forgive. So many get
defeated by this, yet it is there right in plain sight. Even putting theology infront of just
loving people who worship Jesus. Paul learnt this with people who opposed him, and still
he said they are preaching Christ so Amen, Halleluyah.

Funnily for me, I matter less than just witnessing to this reality. So all glory to Christ and
the cross, such a contradiction, that such a thing is the very healing of our hearts.

What a King.

 

[JoDel]

Oorah! Thank you for your service!

 

[dcontroversal]

Oorah! Thank you for your service!

The honor was mine and thanks...Semper Fi

 

[PeterJens]

Hi Peter, maybe this statement above in bold has caused some confusion for some people. Maybe it was a typo? I don't know, but it is our Faith in God's Word that modifies our behavior as Jesus works in us....

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually works also in you that believe." (1Thess 2:13)

Loved the Wesley statements share today by everyone.

God bless you

Amen. I sometimes turn things around on purpose to illustrate a point.
We are judged because of our behaviour, not our faith. We could have all the right faith
points and understanding but our behaviour demonstrate this is just hypocracy and empty
or this is a living true faith in the life and love of Christ.

What I have seen is people who want to empathise so much with people and show the acceptance
of Jesus, they ignore or reject anything that speaks of "religion" or morality. But rather than putting
on a accepting faith to the gospel, people are leaving the gospel for the world but keeping the words.

It is also why God judged Nineveh for their behaviour not their faith, because this has always been
about understanding love and justice as opposed to selfishness and exploitation.

 

[dcontroversal]

One of the fatalistic approaches to the word of God is to blend the two covenants into ONE......in the OT Blessing, Judgment, Punishment and even death were based upon your adherence to the law and or lack thereof.....including Nineveh.....

IN the N.T. the CONDEMNATION and PUNISHMENT of the law has been SUPERCEEDED with GRACE, MERCY and unconditional LOVE......

That is why MOST misapply the words of JESUS.....the covenant of grace, mercy and peace based upon unconditional love was not ratified until HIS DEATH.......JESUS was born under and died UNDER the LAW.........to overlook this and blend the two and apply the LAW unto believers in the NEW Covenant ERA is a flaw that leads to a misapplication of the entire scope of what has transpired in Christ and how it is applied!

 

[Ariel82]

Are you drinking enough water? I know if I don't drink enough water I always get headaches

God Bless you

I spent 3 hours at a water park with my brothers so that probably was why.., I hope the kids remember it as a cherished memory later in life. We had a lot of fun.

Praise the Lord for the opportunity!

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi BillG nice to meet you here in CC

Our future sins are only forgiven on the conditions of God's Word.....

"If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1John 1:9)

There are absolutely no conditions for the believer that Christ is in that needs to ask God for the forgiveness of sins. In Him we have redemption - the forgiveness of sins.

1 John 1:9 is the only scripture in the New Testament that says we need to confess sin in order to receive forgiveness and it has been grossly taken out of context with the whole chapter of 1 John.

If it was of such great importance - you would think that Paul would at least mentioned it in his letters. He does not.

Scripture isolated can cause all sorts of opinions and traditions to be put in place:

If we pay attention to the ..we and our and the you in 1 John chapter 1 we will discover some great truths. These may conflict with some our church teachings and traditions.



"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we (believers - namely John ) have looked at and ourhands have touched - this weproclaim concerning the Word of Life"

(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.

"We( believers - namely John himself ) proclaim to you (unbelievers - gnostics ) what we have seen and heard, so that you (unbelievers - gnostics ) also may have fellowship with us ( believers ). And our(believers )fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).

This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics ( unbelievers ) to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ.

Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ. ( just like we do now in all churches....there are both types of people )

"This is the message we ( believers ) have heard from Him and declare to you ( unbelievers ):God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).

John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost). Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).


"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).

In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.

"If we ( believers )walk in the light, as He is in the light,we ( believers ) have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us ( believers ) from all sin" (verse 7).

In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. The blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin because we are in Christ. This is always in present tense.

Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins. We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.

"If we ( John putting all of us in the same boat before coming to Christ ) claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (verse 8).

John is now addressing the belief the Gnostics had regarding sin because they didn't believe it was real and therefore believed they had no sin. The "we" John is using here refers to all people before coming to Christ including all believers too which "we" had to acknowledge at some point in our lives.

He is referring specifically to the Gnostics, who believed they were without sin. Because they claimed to be without sin, then they were only deceiving themselves and the truth (Jesus) was not in them.

However, verse 9 says that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

In other words, if the Gnostics were to confess they had sins, then God, Who is faithful and righteous, would forgive and cleanse them from their unrighteousness. They would receive the forgiveness of sins and receive the gift of righteousness. Rom. 5:17

In the Greek language, the words "forgive" and "cleanse" mean past actions that have results today and will continue to have results in the future.

Also, the word "all" used in these verses means all. It doesn't mean that we are cleansed of our past sins and our past unrighteousness, it means we were cleansed of all our unrighteousness. And if God cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then we are cleansed forever!

We become a new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph. 4:24

"If we claim we ( all of us were in this boat at one time ) have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives" (verse 10).

Basically this verse is a repeat of verse 8. To put it simply, it means that the Gnostics can't claim to be without sin and yet be saved. John is saying that because the Gnostics claimed they had no sin, they were actually calling God a liar and therefore didn't know the truth.

The purpose of the first chapter of 1 John was to compare the truth of God to the error of gnosticism. John was addressing the Gnostics, who were deceived by their own teaching. He wanted the Gnostics to understand that what they believed conflicted with what God said. He was not, however, addressing believers.

However we can all learn from all scriptures including 1 John 1 - I especially love the truth of verse 7 - the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin because we are in Him.