Christ is God

posthuman · Jun 9, 2017

I am YHWH, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
Nor My praise to graven images.
(Isaiah 42:8)

Now, Father,
glorify Me together with Yourself,
with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
(John 17:5)

if Christ is not God, His prayer is blasphemy!

Therefore the Jews took up stones again,
that they might stone Him.
(John 10:31)

Yeraza_Bats · Jun 9, 2017

Aw, Posthuman took the two that I wanted to post ; _ ; Guess Ill have to find others : p

Jesus said in Luke 5:24 that He had the authority to forgive sins

Jesus says in John 5:23 that we are to honor Him just as we honor the Father

Jesus says in Matthew 28:18 that He has authority over the Heavens and the Earth

Jesus says in John 6:54 that He will raise the dead on the last day

Jesus says in John 16:14 that everything that belongs to God belongs to Him

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Jesus followers called Him Lord and worshiped Him, John 9:38

And Jesus says in John 5:26 that He will judge the world

Someone who is a mere prophet or servant of some sort would clearly not make statements like this : p It is clear why the Jews accused Him of blasphemy. He and the Father are one.

Isaiah 9- For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever.

Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

followjesus · Jun 9, 2017

Yeraza_Bats said:

thats the difference btween Jesus and God Jesus was Given the authority By God, His Father. we are also one with Jesus, but it doesnt make us Jesus. Jesus was Given all the Power and authority, By God. He came from God, has always been of God and will always be one with God. because He is the Son of God, the Only begotten of God. thats where His unity with God and divinity comes from, He is of God, Gods right hand. like the holy spirit is one with God and makes us One with God

Jesus will hand over the Kingdom after all things are subdued beneath Him. at that point God will be all in all.

1 corinthians 15:24 "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." <<< " sit at my right hand until i make thy enemies thy footstool"

Like a mans son, is an extension of Himself, so is Jesus an extension of God, One with, the Son of in order to bring us into unity with God in Jesus.

john 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

john 17:20-24 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

what is the glory God gave unto Jesus? and Jesus gives unto those who believe that God sent Him???

john 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

its the means by which we are made children of God, to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of God.

1 john 59-12 ":If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

this is not cryptic it only needs faith in the Son of God. muslim belief is that God has no son, He does, i witness to that fact.

john 3:16-18 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

the only belief is that Jesus is the One and only begotten son of God thats the question that determines whether we believe What God has said of His Son, and what the Son has said of the Father. there is no scripture to say God came into the world, and then said He was His son. we put that together because God gave Jesus the name equal to God, because Jesus is the expres image of the invisable God.

John who certainly understood this and certainly saw Jesus at His transfiguration and all through the gospel says plainly "No one has ever seen God" this Long after Jesus came and was risen John saw Him often, thats why He expresses that Jesus is Gods only Son so often. Jesus is the promised Christ, the Only begotten son of God through this faith we are begotten of God because we believe in the Son of God, and the One who sent Him by His word.

Yeraza_Bats · Jun 9, 2017

followjesus said:

I mostly agree with you, I mean you said this here and I strongly agree with it-

He is absolutely one with God, there is no denying that through His own words.

But then you say this here-

And Im assuming that you are saying that He and the Father are separate? I mean we both agree that He and God are one, that He comes from God, is a part of God and shares His attributes, but you say that He is not God?

I dont believe that being the Son of God separates Him from being God. He is a part of God, if He isnt, then we worship two gods, meaning God shares His glory with another, and did not create us on His own. They are either one or they arent, if Jesus is just the Son of God and not also God then we cannot say that we worship one God, we then worship two gods, the God of Abraham and his offspring. And that is not biblical.

And I dont believe the prayer from Jesus denies His one-ness with God either, from the verses you posted here-

I mean reading that prayer, Jesus says again that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. He says that He wants us to be one with Him, but I believe that context is important before jumping onto the "this denies Jesus' divinity" bandwagon. Jesus tells us multiple times He and the Father are one. He tells us that He was with God and shared in His glory before the world even existed. He tells us that He will raise the dead, and that He will judge the world.
And He tells us that He came to die for our sins, so that we can be saved from them. I think through context it is clear that Jesus' oneness with God is not the same as His wish for us to be one with Him, too.I think it is clear that Jesus tells us that He and the Father are one, and that He wants us to be with Him for eternity.

And I disagree with this bit here-

And I base that on verses like these-

Isaiah 43-
verse 3- For I am the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior

verse 6-7
I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’
and to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.’
Bring my sons from afar
and my daughters from the ends of the earth—
7 everyone who is called by my name,
whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made.”

verses 10-13 “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord,
and apart from me there is no savior.
12 I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—
I, and not some foreign god among you.
You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “that I am God.
13 Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
No one can deliver out of my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it?”

verses 14-15 This is what the Lord says—
your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel:
“For your sake I will send to Babylon
and bring down as fugitives all the Babylonians,
in the ships in which they took pride.
15 I am the Lord, your Holy One,
Israel’s Creator, your King.”

Psalm 50:6
And the heavens declare His righteousness, For God Himself is judge.

Zechariah 12
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Zechariah 14:9
9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.

TL;DR
I believe that Jesus IS the Son of God, but I do not believe that He is ONLY the Son of God. I saw a response today from a Christian teacher where a former Muslim asked him, is Jesus the Son of God or God Himself? And his response was this-
"let me ask you a question first. Are you a man, or a son of a man?"

He is both God, and the Son of God. That is why we say He is God with us : p I do not believe that God had literal offspring, I believe He is the only begotten Son of God because He came from the Father into the womb of Mary and lived among us. But I believe He came from God and is a part of God, and I believe the Bible supports my belief.

Our God is not two : p He exists as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, but all of these are one.

posthuman · Jun 10, 2017

without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh
(1 Timothy 3:16)

i believe this verse was already cited here -- but emphasis on the fact that no controversy, Christ being God manifest in the flesh is a great mystery !

it is not simple at all to comprehend - who knows if any mere human can fathom what this is - but it is true. the Jews deny it, the Muslims call it blasphemy even to suggest it is possible, the new age & the LDS try to say everyone is a god, and 'modernism' in the Church rejects Christ's deity also, replacing it with ((mostly)) a kind of modalism.

posthuman · Jun 10, 2017

Yeraza_Bats said:

yes, this, too:

. . . all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
(Colossians 1:16-17)

but through Isaiah Yah says all things were made by Him and for Him!

posthuman · Jun 11, 2017

YHWH says:

I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.
(Isaiah 44:6)

Jesus Christ says:

I am the Alpha and the Omega,
the first and the last,
the beginning and the end.
(Revelation 22:13)

BeyondET · Jun 11, 2017

Yeshua Ben Yahweh

posthuman · Jun 12, 2017

did Christ, like angels & men, ever say, "I am not God, do not worship me" ?

[HR][/HR]

Jesus answered,
"It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'"
(Luke 4:8)

He certainly knew the scripture

And he said,
“Lord, I believe.”
And he worshiped Him.
And Jesus said,
“For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.”
(John 9:38-39)

and yet He never rebuked those who worshiped Him.

did we just break the Bible?
or is there some truth we should infer from this?

BeyondET · Jun 12, 2017

posthuman said:

did Christ, like angels & men, ever say, "I am not God, do not worship me" ?

[HR][/HR]

Jesus answered,
"It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'"
(Luke 4:8)

He certainly knew the scripture

And he said,
“Lord, I believe.”
And he worshiped Him.
And Jesus said,
“For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.”
(John 9:38-39)

and yet He never rebuked those who worshiped Him.

did we just break the Bible?
or is there some truth we should infer from this?

what is the blind to what? that makes person without sin.

posthuman · Jun 14, 2017

Let them praise the name of YHVH, For His name alone is exalted;
His glory is above earth and heaven.
(Psalm 148:13)

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth
(Philippians 2:9-10)

posthuman · Jun 14, 2017

Everlasting Father

FGT · Jun 14, 2017

posthuman said:

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do;
because I go unto my Father.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you,
I go away, and come again unto you.
If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said,
I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Yeraza_Bats · Jun 15, 2017

FGT said:

Jesus came to the earth in the flesh of a man, right? He humbled Himself as a bond servant while on earth, living as we do. But He was going to return to His place with God.

This here is from the SAME chapter you quoted-

5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus was returning to His place with God, which was clearly a greater place than here on earth as a man : p Jesus said Himself, He existed with God before the earth was formed, and shared in His glory : p

John 17:1-5 17 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Gotta have context before throwing out one verse to prove your point : p

breno785au · Jun 15, 2017

Seriously....

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Colossians 1:16*-‬17 KJV

FGT · Jun 15, 2017

Yeraza_Bats said:

Now that Jesus has returned to His place with God,
which one is the greater of the two?
Him or God?

Please teach me.

FGT · Jun 15, 2017

breno785au said:

Do you suppose that God knew before He created the angels that some of them would rebel
and come down to earth and introduce evil to mankind?

I was wondering about that after I read what you posted.

breno785au · Jun 15, 2017

FGT said:

I wouldn't pretend to know. Any answer I try would be supposition.

posthuman · Jun 15, 2017

FGT said:

And Jesus answered him,
The first of all the commandments is,
Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
(Mark 12:29-30)

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD
(Deuteronomy 6:4)

while in Deuteronomy, what is translated "LORD" is the name Yahweh, in Mark the word Jesus says which is translated "Lord" is 'kyrios' -- not the divine name, but the word which literally means "lord"

Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ -- this Jesus whom you crucified.
(Acts 2:36)

yet Jesus is Lord -- same word here in Acts, 'kyrios'

there is only one "Lord" and according to Torah, as Jesus Himself quotes it, calling it the most important commandment, YHVH is Lord.
but scripture calls Jesus Lord, indisputably.

if there can only be one Lord, and YHVH is Lord, and Jesus the Christ is Lord, how can you say "which of the two" ?

The Lord is One

FGT · Jun 15, 2017

posthuman said:

And Jesus answered him,
The first of all the commandments is,
Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
(Mark 12:29-30)

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD
(Deuteronomy 6:4)

while in Deuteronomy, what is translated "LORD" is the name Yahweh, in Mark the word Jesus says which is translated "Lord" is 'kyrios' -- not the divine name, but the word which literally means "lord"

Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ -- this Jesus whom you crucified.
(Acts 2:36)

yet Jesus is Lord -- same word here in Acts, 'kyrios'

there is only one "Lord" and according to Torah, as Jesus Himself quotes it, calling it the most important commandment, YHVH is Lord.
but scripture calls Jesus Lord, indisputably.

if there can only be one Lord, and YHVH is Lord, and Jesus the Christ is Lord, how can you say "which of the two" ?

The Lord is One

I guess because there is a Lord of Lords.

Which of the two is the Lord of Lords?

Christ is God

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