Not By Works

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Feb 24, 2015
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The bolded proves you believe in a works based sinless perfectionist dogma.........even though you will deny this through and through......

WE, WE, WE....OUR walk.......over one mention of Jesus...............tragic
dc - There is a simple point I am making. Jesus makes us one with Him.
You really do not see it in His words. Jesus has never been that interested in His enemies
because the enemy believes they can win, while this is why they lose.

So there is not a theological battle, just unwrapping the treasures in our hearts, there is not
a group who will suddenly see the wonder of the intellectual argument, just Gods elect listening
to the King.

So my friend carry on with your disdain, it does not change what Christ is doing or what I am
experiencing in Him. The Lord chose the church to be His glory, treasure wrapped in frailty.
Until you learn how to love the unloved, to treasure the smallest of gestures, it will all pass
you by. It is why the contradiction of some dying to say how much they love the Lord, is a
precious gift of love and sacrifice over position and safety.

So the apostles who were not great in mans eyes, stood for their Lord and brought Gods
kingdom to earth and to us through their witness. Amen.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
am i rejecting him for believing repentance leads to salvation ?
Godly sorrow does lead to repentance...godly sorrow is a work God does upon our hearts.


I have a headache so gonna skip long posts unless I see my name.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Are you saying beleiving in works is a little mistake?

To at the end of the day it's Jesus who will judge and not man.
Jesus knows the heart and that is what all men will be judged on.

All works of beleivers will be laid bare, some will be precious and some crap but we will escape through the fire ans spend eternity with Jesus
All false beliefs will burn up in God's refining fire...the main thing is have you placed your faith in Jesus? Are you a born again child of God? Do you have the Holy Spirit leading you?


Everything else is just works built upon either the Rock or shifting sand
 
Jun 5, 2017
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At the end of the day NO man can accurately judge another man's salvation, but we can judge gospels just as Jesus, Paul, Elijah, John etc......It is not wrong or unbiblical to do such......and the contention in this thread has been the following two main points....

Biblical salvation

BY FAITH dia GRACE UNTO the works prepared for us that we have all acknowledged (ALL JESUS)

or

BY FAITH PLUS WORKS (JESUS plus US and OUR LABOR)

MANY of the same players in this thread have consistently made their position known by verbiage and personal views....

this thread as seen sinless perfectionists, those who push works, those who say faith alone............some are pointed, some subtle and some haphazard.......at the end of the day PAUL judged faith plus works to finish or embellish salvation for salvation as false.....it is by this truth that the café blend of faith plus works has been judged.......

I have no doubt you are a nice guy after all you are Aussie.......but we are instructed to defend the faith and the stake is the eternal souls of men and women....this is life and death (eternal) and I know I am blunt, but will not sit idly by and watch the gospel be embellished with something I know is not added to faith for salvation.....

EVEN JAMES does not teach salvation by faith and WORKS, but states that faith that saves will have evidence (show me your faith)
NO ONE has said that works will not be evidence, but lest we forget...the works of the saved are defined by two groupings..
Works of gold, silver and precious stones
or
Works of wood, hay and stubble

It is faith that saves......and any work, all work and all fruit are the result of the saving faith and salvation that one already possesses in Christ......
For me I have not read every post in this thread... but from my time here in this forum, I have seen a lot of misunderstandings between people that possibly believe the same thing (in my short time here). How we write can be interpreted in many ways by different people because we all see things differently based on our experience. I understand that not everyone can be right and at the same time not everyone is wrong in everything that they say. We are all growing at different stages in our walk with Jesus, but the test the Word of God has given us to know if we are followers of Christ is how we live our lives according to God's Word (the fruit that God wants us to bear). This is proof that we are following God and also identifies those that are not followers of Jesus. I think this is the point that some people are trying to share here. Maybe this had been interpreted in the wrong way by some. I do not know.

All I know is that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and we should consider all scripture as essential to our salvation. If our faith is not saving us from our sins it is not the faith that God wants us to have....

" For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness." (Rom 1:16-18)

May God bless you
 
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Feb 28, 2016
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Ariel,

your Post, 12180 was very wise, TY...hub and I are praying that your 'head-ache',
will soon be-gone!:):)
 
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Ariel82

Guest

I see it this way.

1. You either have faith in God to complete what he started, and fulfill all his promises to you,

2. or you do not have faith God can do this, making yourself more powerful than God, one who can prevent God from doing what he PROMISED to do..
Or you don't know all the true promises made by God in the Bible and are still learning God is teaching you....

In other words you are not a fully mature Christian but do have a saving faith in Christ.

Which is different from a person who believed a false works salvation gospel and was never saved to begin with.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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PeterJens...You say when we walk with Jesus we can do no wrong, how can this be...I do wrong every day, and i walk with my beloved Jesus every day but i still do wrong, is that not why we need our Savior 24/7, if we did not do wrong then we would be sinless like Jesus and that is not possible...xox...
When we are talking about doing wrong what are you talking about, in detail?
Are doing sinful acts every day, choosing to rebel against God and doing evil deeds?

Or are we talking about sensitivities about upsetting people, doing what others want
us to do, making commitments to do something but not being able to fulfill it.

And we need fellowship with the Lord because that is our hearts desire, this is love and
what it means to dwell with the most High.

And the fear of doing wrong, is the fear that love cannot flow openly through you to others.
What staggers me is a group who claim to be not sin conscious but loving or righteousness
conscious actually spend all their time thinking sin has condemned them, and by sinning the
justify the need of Christ. Now it is ironic to fall for such a lie. Either you love Christ for who
He is, and not because you are a failure, or you are an unrepentant sinner who is wedded to
sin and rebels against the love the comes through the cross.

What bigger afront to the Lord, to have a people who claim to know Him, yet condemn themselves
and deny the victory He has purchased by not repenting, openning their hearts and walking in His
love and cleansing. And ofcourse this reality is new, it is only open to the elect who walk in the
Holy Spirit, but it is obvious this is far fewer than many want to claim.

Imagine the genious at work to take the most consciencious legalists, crush their pride by rejection
from their communities and then turn them around as totally forgiven sinners, still trapped in sin
while condemning Gods elect. Poetry in motion. Every argument mirrored and used against them,
like a mocking dance. Except it fails when faced with real love and humbleness. But that was always
his mistake, not really understanding the Lords schemes, to use everything to bring glory to His name
and people, Halleluyah, Praise to the Name of Jesus.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
yes its no biiggee believing works will keep you saved.. as it is a works to repent it says as much in the bible billy lad..


and its certainly not biiger than peples horrible ignorant attitudes saying i will go to hell for bel;ieving works my works my repentance will keep me saved.. coz if i dont repent i am not saved. .... not to repent...= you cant be forgiven coz you havent asked for it............ unless of course you get run over by a bus :)
I love you Jimbo and hope one day that you understand the doctrine of eternal security.

If you dont repent, you will have a miserable life. Therefore repentance is a good thing.

Do you know the better way though?

Knowing God's grace in forgiving you and learning to walk with the holy spirit....repentance is just the beginning....overcoming and learning to walk with God..., that is what being born again really is about.

Knowing that God loves you so much that He will walk with you...knowing how much you love your kids and that God loves you 100 times more...that begins to give us an idea.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
PeterJens some days I lose hope of having an actual conversation with you. Your posts just makes my headache worst. You are almost as bad as G777 posts some days.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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JOHN 16:33.
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace.
In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

REV. 17:14.
These shall make war with The Lamb, and The Lamb shall overcome them:
for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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PeterJens some days I lose hope of having an actual conversation with you. Your posts just makes my headache worst. You are almost as bad as G777 posts some days.
Nonsense..because you don't understand some things - it doesn't make them bad Ariel. As I said - some posts are not for everyone at the time we are in our lives. We can leave some things in the hands of the Lord. He will be faithful to all of us....:)
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Those with the Holy Spirit are sealed unto th day of redemption.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The Lord knows those that are His,and this is the seal,

Everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

There is a condition to confessing Christ,and that is to depart from iniquity,which there is a condition to faith,and confessing Christ,but some ignore it,for if they gave heed to them in the right perspective it would jeopardize their beliefs.

But this is the seal,

That they depart from iniquity.

Neglect the poor and needy,the love of God does not dwell in you,love the world,and the things in the world,got to have that playstation,and four wheeler,worldy entertainment,it is not of the Father,and fleshy lusts war against the soul.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These people did not want to depart from iniquity,and they thought they were alright with God despite their sins they held unto.

That is the seal that they depart from iniquity.

They did not try to beat sin,but hold unto some sins,ansd enjoyed them,so the Spirit did not lead them,so there was no sealed unto redemption.

I encounter people that believe they are sealed unto the day of redemption,cannot ever fall,but then they are living like the world,not trying to beat some sins,but enjoying them,but you cannot say anything for they will not heed anything you say,for the only thing they have on their mind is they cannot fall,but with their attitude how were they sealed if they never departed dfrom iniquity,from the time they had faith,and confessed Christ.

How do they explain that,and by the Spirit we can abstain from sin,because we do not want sin,and we could sin after conversion,but we have to give it up,and keep being led of the Spirit,but these people will not give up the sins,and live worldy,which their lifestyle testifies they are not led of the Spirit,and then they want to debate with people how they are right with God.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins(hold unto sin,and not give it up,the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away),
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

This is the seal that they depart from iniquity,and people that believe they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,did they depart from sin with that attitude.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Bad = posts ability to give me a headache and a profound wish not to engage poster in conversation.

Value of post as good or bad theologically lost behind the headache of figuring out what either you actually mean.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Those with the Holy Spirit are sealed unto th day of redemption. .
nope that is How God seals us....

.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The Lord knows those that are His,and this is the seal, .
the Holy Spirit is the seal.

.
Everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

There is a condition to confessing Christ,and that is to depart from iniquity,which there is a condition to faith,and confessing Christ,but some ignore it,for if they gave heed to them in the right perspective it would jeopardize their beliefs.

But this is the seal,

That they depart from iniquity. .
umm no the seal is the Holy Spirit who will lead people away from iniquity and towards God's way and godliness

.
Neglect the poor and needy,the love of God does not dwell in you,love the world,and the things in the world,got to have that playstation,and four wheeler,worldy entertainment,it is not of the Father,and fleshy lusts war against the soul.
.
notice it says MORE than God. God gives us some blessings to enjoy and thank Him for. However it should never cause us to ignore the needs of the poor or needy.

.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These people did not want to depart from iniquity,and they thought they were alright with God despite their sins they held unto.

That is the seal that they depart from iniquity. .
again the seal is the Holy Spirit...how can you miss that?

.
They did not try to beat sin,but hold unto some sins,ansd enjoyed them,so the Spirit did not lead them,so there was no sealed unto redemption.
.
???? If God isn't chastening them they never had the Holy Spirit...are you saying if they aren't sinless they are lost?
.
I encounter people that believe they are sealed unto the day of redemption,cannot ever fall,but then they are living like the world,not trying to beat some sins,but enjoying them,but you cannot say anything for they will not heed anything you say,for the only thing they have on their mind is they cannot fall,but with their attitude how were they sealed if they never departed dfrom iniquity,from the time they had faith,and confessed Christ..
in other words they have bought into a false gospel?

.
How do they explain that,and by the Spirit we can abstain from sin,because we do not want sin,and we could sin after conversion,but we have to give it up,and keep being led of the Spirit,but these people will not give up the sins,and live worldy,which their lifestyle testifies they are not led of the Spirit,and then they want to debate with people how they are right with God.
.
you sound like a judge..have you had a personal one on one with them or is this all just gossiping about "those people"?

.
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins(hold unto sin,and not give it up,the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away),
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
.
lovely verses

.
This is the seal that they depart from iniquity,and people that believe they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,did they depart from sin with that attitude. .
again not God's seal...and those folks believe a false gospel...what is your point? Salvation is still by Faith and Not by works.

.
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
Amen take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ!
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Those with the Holy Spirit are sealed unto th day of redemption.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The Lord knows those that are His,and this is the seal,

Everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

There is a condition to confessing Christ,and that is to depart from iniquity,which there is a condition to faith,and confessing Christ,but some ignore it,for if they gave heed to them in the right perspective it would jeopardize their beliefs.

But this is the seal,

That they depart from iniquity.

Neglect the poor and needy,the love of God does not dwell in you,love the world,and the things in the world,got to have that playstation,and four wheeler,worldy entertainment,it is not of the Father,and fleshy lusts war against the soul.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These people did not want to depart from iniquity,and they thought they were alright with God despite their sins they held unto.

That is the seal that they depart from iniquity.

They did not try to beat sin,but hold unto some sins,ansd enjoyed them,so the Spirit did not lead them,so there was no sealed unto redemption.

I encounter people that believe they are sealed unto the day of redemption,cannot ever fall,but then they are living like the world,not trying to beat some sins,but enjoying them,but you cannot say anything for they will not heed anything you say,for the only thing they have on their mind is they cannot fall,but with their attitude how were they sealed if they never departed dfrom iniquity,from the time they had faith,and confessed Christ.

How do they explain that,and by the Spirit we can abstain from sin,because we do not want sin,and we could sin after conversion,but we have to give it up,and keep being led of the Spirit,but these people will not give up the sins,and live worldy,which their lifestyle testifies they are not led of the Spirit,and then they want to debate with people how they are right with God.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins(hold unto sin,and not give it up,the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away),
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

This is the seal that they depart from iniquity,and people that believe they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,did they depart from sin with that attitude.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
The overall scriptures are correct. God wants us to depart from sin through faith in His Word, but the seal is the Holy Spirit as Ariel pointed out above. It is God's Spirit working in us that allow us to depart from sin.... great bible texts though and relevant for us all.
 
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PeterJens some days I lose hope of having an actual conversation with you. Your posts just makes my headache worst. You are almost as bad as G777 posts some days.
Let me put this simply.

When I have a loving relationship with my parents or my wife or my children, it is not imagined
or bounded by theory or dependent on one set of beliefs or another, it is a relationship.

Now we argue with each other about which beliefs found what, and how it all works together,
but at the end of the day, it comes down to, do we know God or not, and do we have a living
heartfelt relationship with Him.

God cares about how love and care flows from us and how we walk with each other.
Jesus is the cornerstone of this, and our communion with Him.

I get the feeling many know the theory but feel a far off, struggling with sin and who
they are which drives them to prayer and spiritual things.

You want to take this into theology all the time, put it within constraints, ideas, which
will always give you a headache. Learning to reach out and trust, and not rely on constructs
is part of walking in the Spirit.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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When we are talking about doing wrong what are you talking about, in detail?
Are doing sinful acts every day, choosing to rebel against God and doing evil deeds?

Or are we talking about sensitivities about upsetting people, doing what others want
us to do, making commitments to do something but not being able to fulfill it.

And we need fellowship with the Lord because that is our hearts desire, this is love and
what it means to dwell with the most High.

And the fear of doing wrong, is the fear that love cannot flow openly through you to others.
What staggers me is a group who claim to be not sin conscious but loving or righteousness
conscious actually spend all their time thinking sin has condemned them, and by sinning the
justify the need of Christ. Now it is ironic to fall for such a lie. Either you love Christ for who
He is, and not because you are a failure, or you are an unrepentant sinner who is wedded to
sin and rebels against the love the comes through the cross.

What bigger afront to the Lord, to have a people who claim to know Him, yet condemn themselves
and deny the victory He has purchased by not repenting, openning their hearts and walking in His
love and cleansing. And ofcourse this reality is new, it is only open to the elect who walk in the
Holy Spirit, but it is obvious this is far fewer than many want to claim.

Imagine the genious at work to take the most consciencious legalists, crush their pride by rejection
from their communities and then turn them around as totally forgiven sinners, still trapped in sin
while condemning Gods elect. Poetry in motion. Every argument mirrored and used against them,
like a mocking dance. Except it fails when faced with real love and humbleness. But that was always
his mistake, not really understanding the Lords schemes, to use everything to bring glory to His name
and people, Halleluyah, Praise to the Name of Jesus.
Good morning PeterJens...When i say i do wrong everyday, it could be something like having a bit of an attitude, or be careless with my words to someone, then the Holy Spirit will recall it to mind and i repent and carry on walking with my Lord Jesus thanking Him that He cares so much about me to correct me...I do not deliberately go out of my way to sin because i am a new creation in Christ and have put off the old and put on the new, but yes i do still sin, even if its a tiny sin to me it is still sin so therefore i can not walk perfectly with the Lord while on this earth...I am walking in such a way now with Jesus and i know He is pleased with me because i have the peace of the Holy Spirit that tells me so, i just do not believe anyone can walk every day being sinless, not because we dont want to but because we still live in the flesh...But thanks be to God our Almighty Father who by His Grace we have been saved through Faith, and every day i need corrected untill the day He calls me home...xox...
 
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nope that is How God seals us....
the Holy Spirit is the seal.
umm no the seal is the Holy Spirit who will lead people away from iniquity and towards God's way and godliness
notice it says MORE than God. God gives us some blessings to enjoy and thank Him for. However it should never cause us to ignore the needs of the poor or needy.
again the seal is the Holy Spirit...how can you miss that?
If God isn't chastening them they never had the Holy Spirit...are you saying if they aren't sinless they are lost?
in other words they have bought into a false gospel?
you sound like a judge..have you had a personal one on one with them or is this all just gossiping about "those people"?
lovely verses
again not God's seal...and those folks believe a false gospel...what is your point? Salvation is still by Faith and Not by works.
Amen take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ!
The above sounds like a school teacher marking homework.
The problem I have with the language it assumes a defined set of ideas with their
labels and correct use or not correct use.

Each person uses language their way, and if you care about the individual you have
to learn their language.

If one is teaching people to pass an exam with a specific use of words, but this is
a forum with people sharing.

Are we not here to encourage others in pursuing the Lord, His word and His will?

My take on this is discussion at high level difference has real value, such as future
sin forgiven, are works a fruit or earning merit or about disqualification from salvation,
these matter. Or even how you treat others, whether one is gentle, kind, forgiving,
gracious.
 
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Good morning PeterJens...When i say i do wrong everyday, it could be something like having a bit of an attitude, or be careless with my words to someone, then the Holy Spirit will recall it to mind and i repent and carry on walking with my Lord Jesus thanking Him that He cares so much about me to correct me...I do not deliberately go out of my way to sin because i am a new creation in Christ and have put off the old and put on the new, but yes i do still sin, even if its a tiny sin to me it is still sin so therefore i can not walk perfectly with the Lord while on this earth...I am walking in such a way now with Jesus and i know He is pleased with me because i have the peace of the Holy Spirit that tells me so, i just do not believe anyone can walk every day being sinless, not because we dont want to but because we still live in the flesh...But thanks be to God our Almighty Father who by His Grace we have been saved through Faith, and every day i need corrected untill the day He calls me home...xox...
"When i say i do wrong everyday, it could be something like having a bit of an attitude, or be careless with my words to someone,"

Let us be honest, this is not sin we are talking about here, but about attitude and motive.
I have stopped analysing my attitudes or motives, because invariably I construct a lot of
things that do not exist or are just ideas. I try and focus on how I can love and encourage
the person I am talking to, and leave it at that.

What you are describing can end in hyper-legalism or simple over analysis. And walking in a
pleasing manner before the Lord is our hearts, but making a judgement on it is a mistake, because
as Paul says, only God is the judge and only He can truly see and know.

I think the Lord calls us to see each day in isolation, and what we can offer in the present moment.
So many disqualify themselves from blessing because they are condemning themselves too much.