The Rapture

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Jan 21, 2017
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VCO I consider you a brother in Christ for sure but I'd like to say that the New Covenant that God said He will make with Judah and Israel does include gentiles as well, the plan is to the Jew first then to the Greek, so initially the people who partook of the Lord's supper were all Israelites and later on the gentiles were allowed to join to the fold, this is covered in multiple passages in Isaiah such as:

Isaiah 49:6
[FONT=&quot]And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.[/FONT]
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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Ahwatukee can you please tell me how the temple in jerusalem thats coming soon can be considered holy because its animal sacrifices which God doesnt want anymore since Jesus is here???????????? i dont overstand how it would be holy today??????????? prove to me its holy and i agree...........
Excuse me for jumping in but there are a few things to consider. First the Temple was still functioning for some 40 years after Christs crucifixion and Resurrection. It could hardly be called Holy during that time. Secondly there is nothing Holy about modern Israel apart from the land itself which belongs to God. It would not be surprising that they built another Temple because most of them reject Jesus as Messiah. According to revelation the Beast allows one to be built which is hardly a sign of Gods approval. Where Jesus talks about the Abomination standing in the Holy Place he is not talking about a building but the ground it would stand on which is where Abraham took Isaac and had been a temple site since Soloman. In any case in Luke the Abomination are Armies surrounding Jerusalem. Compare his account to Matthews.
 
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J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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It is not the temple per se that is Holy, it is all Jerusalem
Isaiah 52:1
Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
[FONT=&quot]Daniel 9:16[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.[/FONT]
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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Even after Christ's resurrection it is called the Holy City
Matthew 27:53 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)53 After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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The GT really isn't part of the statue. I mean it's a small part, just 7 years of the Roman Empire. The statue doesn't get smashed until Christ defeats all His enemies, a process which is on-going. The statue has nothing to do with Israel becoming a nation again, not that I can tell anyway.
The statue shows the nations that rule over Israel, until they are restored to control of Jerusalem, and the times of the gentiles have ended.

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It's the restoration of Israel to control of Jerusalem, not the national land boundaries. Lk 21:20-24

The iron of the statue shows the Roman Empire.

The Roman Empire is also the 4th beast of Dan.7.

The 4th beast is given power over Israel for 3 1/2 times.

So the iron is given control over Israel for 3 1/2 times Dan. 7:25.
(The little horn/8th head, is one of the 7 Rev 17:11, therefor must exist during the time of the 7 and after, Caesar/BoR)

So the time of the 3 1/2, cannot be literal years, but must include from the 7th head Rev 17, into the time, and including the time of the 10 horns/kings.

This would be from the time of the Roman Empire (7th head Rev 17), through the time of the ten kings (the time after the fall of the Roman Empire), until the restoration of Israel to control of Jerusalem 1967.

So the statue shows the trib, as the time of the domination of Rome over Israel and Jerusalem 4th beast, for 2000 yrs, not 3 1/2 literal years.

First 3 1/2 times, Babylon until 70 ad, power of the holy people scattered Dan. 12:6-7.

Second 3 1/2 times, 70 ad until 1967, The great trib., The time that the Roman iron dragon beast has power over Israel.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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Your theology is 180 degrees the opposite of what the Holy Spirit has shown me is TRUTH in the WORD of GOD. NOT ONE THING, can I agree with you on. You are on your own, because I am convinced you are following a different spirit than the One who is my Teacher. I will have to ignore your posts from now on.
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Sorry that you can't answer a few comments/questions.

Why don't you ask your teachers for the answers?

------
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by VCO
Your theology is 180 degrees the opposite of what the Holy Spirit has shown me is TRUTH in the WORD of GOD. NOT ONE THING, can I agree with you on. You are on your own, because I am convinced you are following a different spirit than the One who is my Teacher. I will have to ignore your posts from now on.
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Sorry that you can't answer a few comments/questions.

Why don't you ask your teachers for the answers?

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LOL his spirit is presumably a false spirit.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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Oh boy that 70A.D. really was something wasnt it? We got heavens rolling open, Jesus came and every eye saw Him and we are in the New Jerusalem already. No we aren't! - Yes we are it was an invisible return. Ah I see, so that's why Jesus said every eye can see Him? He meant its gonna be invisible, where would we be without 21st century prophecy gurus.

All kidding a side, listen guys, yall keep talking about history but I suggest you take your own advice and read up on what some of the early christians in the years 100-400 were saying and guess what, they were premillennial and thought matthew 24 is FUTURE, so unfortunately for you, most of the church completely missed this apocalypse. Oopps.

As for abomination of desolation occuring in 70A.D. sure it was an abomination, but if you're a student of bible prophecy you know there is a bunch of double triple quadra fulfillments out there, such as Isaiah 7:14 it was given to Ahaz the king of Judah in his generation, yet matthew applied it to the birth of Jesus, so by the way y'all interpret the bible, it couldn't of been about Jesus since its that generation only.

As for the abomination of desolation, when and how will it occur, we can guess, some have said its referring to a church or something, but with my background I can't see it as a catholic mass lol, to me its clearly the third temple being rebuilt (which they are working on right now, news straight outta the Holy Land). If you read the news story about it, they said it was gonna be a "House of prayer" for ALL, so that matches perfectly with the anti-christ agenda of one world religion and government.

God bless

EDIT: Oh yeah btw valiant you are right Jews do interpret daniel 9:27 to relate to 70A.D. however lets remember these are my brethren whom reject Christ.
How is Isaiah 7:14 a double fulfilment?
What has Jesus's return got to do with AD70?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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Sorry that you can't answer a few comments/questions.

Why don't you ask your teachers for the answers?

------

WRONG, you have decided to IGNORE my answers and WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY,before you even ask the questions.
THEREFORE, I have far, far better things to do than to waste my time on you.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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LOL his spirit is presumably a false spirit.
I gave you plenty of answers, and YOU CHOSE TO DISMISS THEM, before I even posted them.

Why should waste my time? You have no interest is discussing what the Bible actually says. All you want to do put down what the Holy Spirit has revealed to us in HIS WORD. Why should I help feed your twisted ego?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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VCO I consider you a brother in Christ for sure but I'd like to say that the New Covenant that God said He will make with Judah and Israel does include gentiles as well, the plan is to the Jew first then to the Greek, so initially the people who partook of the Lord's supper were all Israelites and later on the gentiles were allowed to join to the fold, this is covered in multiple passages in Isaiah such as:

Isaiah 49:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT:



Mark 10:29-31 (HCSB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] “I assure you,” Jesus said, “there is no one who has left house, brothers or sisters, mother or father, children, or fields because of Me and the gospel,
[SUP]30 [/SUP] who will not receive 100 times more, now at this time—houses, brothers and sisters, mothers and children, and fields, with persecutions—and eternal life in the age to come.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”



I absolutely believe that verse 31 is talking about the First Covenant ending after the Church-age Covenant comes to an end. The Two Witnesses lead MANY JEWS TO RECOGNIZE JESUS IS THEIR MESSIAH, AFTER the Rapture. That means the 70th WEEK OF DANIEL will not begin until WE are called out to go to the Wedding of the Lamb. The following events may be at or near the beginning of that 70th Week of Daniel:

Revelation 11:3-13 (CSBBible)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] I will grant my two witnesses authority to prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] If anyone wants to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and consumes their enemies; if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] They have authority to close up the sky so that it does not rain during the days of their prophecy. They also have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every plague whenever they want.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]

When they finish their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war on them, conquer them, and kill them.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Their dead bodies will lie in the main street of the great city, which figuratively is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And some of the peoples, tribes, languages, and nations will view their bodies for three and a half days and not permit their bodies to be put into a tomb.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Those who live on the earth will gloat over them and celebrate and send gifts to one another because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]
But after three and a half days, the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet. Great fear fell on those who saw them. {Can you imagine what the TV News Reporters will say about this event?}
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." They went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies watched them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] At that moment a violent earthquake took place, a tenth of the city fell, and seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake. The survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. { AN UNREAL PREDICTION? THINK AGAIN: '16,000 Israelis could die in quake' - Israel - Jerusalem Post }
 
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J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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The first are Jews (Israelites), the last are the nations
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Don't worry, they have been scoffing at the understanding the Holy Spirit has given me about the Calling Out of the Bride to go to the Wedding of the Lamb for a LONG TIME. I fully expect it, and I guess I should thank them.

Luke 6:22-23 (NCV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] “People will hate you, shut you out, insult you, and say you are evil because you follow the Son of Man. But when they do, you will be happy.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Be full of joy at that time, because you have a great reward waiting for you in heaven. Their ancestors did the same things to the prophets.


2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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When the Holy Spirit (God is not a man as us) comes on the last day in the twinkling of the eye, all saints from the beginning of time will receive their new promised incorruptible bodies which will be neither Jew or Gentile male or female. But a new creation that will never die or grow older..

There is no promise to come in a vision of men what men were like before they died as at the transfiguration (flesh and blood).The real corrupted fleshly bodies of those two had long returned to the dust. And there new born again spirit is at rest as with any saint that leaves this realm under the Sun
.
Christ could not appear this time as Melchisedek a vision (no flesh and blood). God is not a man recognized by (flesh and blood) walking by sight.

It was necessary that Christ be clothed with the actual corrupted flesh typified as sinful as that of mankind in order to put away sin in the flesh. Christ who again is not a man as us did not appear as a theophany or vision like that of Moses and Elijah in that parable used to represent all that is written in the "law and the prophets" (sola scriptura, the two witnesses of God spoken of in Revelation.

Many witnessed that work of Christ pouring out His Spirit, as if His Spirit (not seen) was blood, but used that seen as a demonstration of that not seen….. the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world (the six days he did work) Eternal God remains without mother or father beginning of days or end of Spirit life. God does not have flesh and blood as rudiments of this corrupted creation

Why men attempt to make God into a man (give him an outward appearance a face) He remains a mystery to them. It was by that kind of ideology that caused the fall to begin with, making a God who again is not a man who has no form into a creature so that men could walk by sight putting thier faith in that seen.

He will come in the clouds, with clouds representing the invisible presence of God on the last day. The last days, the new covenant began when Christ said; it is finished…(not will be finished years later) the veil was rent that represented the temporal flesh used in that demonstration of the actual work not seen the pouring out of His Spirit on flesh. It was the end of temple worship (ceremonial laws) using the flesh of a Jew in parables. The “time of reformation” had come restoring the government of God to a prior time. It was the time of Jacob’s tribulation that is still beginning affected shown by the unbelief (no faith) Jews that are still looking for a fleshly Jesus to come and destroy all the gentiles and set up a kingdom on this corrupted earth

What seems odd to me is when most people I have shared with when discussing the first century reformation they would acknowledge the fifteenth century reformation but avoid discussing time of this promised first century reformation as if it never occurred.


God is not a man as us the one time demonstration is over .Christians walk by faith the unseen, eternal not by sight chasing after a fleshly god as did Adam and Eve in the garden

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, "yet now" henceforth know we him no more.

Are you denying the physical RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST?

ARE YOU DENYING THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST?



John 20:27-28 (CSBBible)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and look at my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Don't be faithless, but believe."


[SUP]28 [/SUP] Thomas responded to him, "My Lord and my God!?"


Luke 24:38-43 (NCV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] But Jesus said, “Why are you troubled? Why do you doubt what you see?
[SUP]39[/SUP] Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have a living body as you see I have.“
[SUP]40 [/SUP] After Jesus said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
[SUP]41 [/SUP] While they still could not believe it because they were amazed and happy, Jesus said to them, “Do you have any food here?“
[SUP]42 [/SUP] They gave him a piece of broiled fish.
[SUP]43 [/SUP] While the followers watched, Jesus took the fish and ate it.



OH YE OF LITTLE FAITH.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Oh boy that 70A.D. really was something wasnt it? We got heavens rolling open, Jesus came and every eye saw Him and we are in the New Jerusalem already. No we aren't! - Yes we are it was an invisible return. Ah I see, so that's why Jesus said every eye can see Him? He meant its gonna be invisible, where would we be without 21st century prophecy gurus.

All kidding a side, listen guys, yall keep talking about history but I suggest you take your own advice and read up on what some of the early christians in the years 100-400 were saying and guess what, they were premillennial and thought matthew 24 is FUTURE, so unfortunately for you, most of the church completely missed this apocalypse. Oopps.

As for abomination of desolation occuring in 70A.D. sure it was an abomination, but if you're a student of bible prophecy you know there is a bunch of double triple quadra fulfillments out there, such as Isaiah 7:14 it was given to Ahaz the king of Judah in his generation, yet matthew applied it to the birth of Jesus, so by the way y'all interpret the bible, it couldn't of been about Jesus since its that generation only.

As for the abomination of desolation, when and how will it occur, we can guess, some have said its referring to a church or something, but with my background I can't see it as a catholic mass lol, to me its clearly the third temple being rebuilt (which they are working on right now, news straight outta the Holy Land). If you read the news story about it, they said it was gonna be a "House of prayer" for ALL, so that matches perfectly with the anti-christ agenda of one world religion and government.

God bless

EDIT: Oh yeah btw valiant you are right Jews do interpret daniel 9:27 to relate to 70A.D. however lets remember these are my brethren whom reject Christ.

We mock that which we do not understand.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
Here is a good one for pre trib,

If they don't build another temple in Jerusalem,

Then the Antichrist cannot come. (AoD)

That is, If you don't build it, he will not come.

------

So men, will be able to prevent Jesus from coming, if they make sure that the temple is not rebuilt.

And stop the Antichrist from coming also.

Just don't rebuild the temple, never start.

How easy is that?

--
 
Apr 23, 2017
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Are you denying the physical RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST?

ARE YOU DENYING THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST?



John 20:27-28 (CSBBible)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and look at my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Don't be faithless, but believe."


[SUP]28 [/SUP] Thomas responded to him, "My Lord and my God!?"


Luke 24:38-43 (NCV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] But Jesus said, “Why are you troubled? Why do you doubt what you see?
[SUP]39[/SUP] Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have a living body as you see I have.“
[SUP]40 [/SUP] After Jesus said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
[SUP]41 [/SUP] While they still could not believe it because they were amazed and happy, Jesus said to them, “Do you have any food here?“
[SUP]42 [/SUP] They gave him a piece of broiled fish.
[SUP]43 [/SUP] While the followers watched, Jesus took the fish and ate it.



OH YE OF LITTLE FAITH.
i hope not because resurrection and deity of Christ is core doctrine.............