Not By Works
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No prob....I believe the post I gave and will say...when one surrenders to the dead body of sin or temptation and sins they GRIEVE the Holy Spirit.....
Non of us can answer that question.
Only one person only can say
Matthew 25:21
“The master was full of praise. ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. You have been faithful in handling this small amount, so now I will give you many more responsibilities. Let’s celebrate together!’
Do some people believe that working out their salvation means reaching entire sanctification in this lifetime in order to maintain their salvation?
Here is what my bible notes tell me.
Philippians 2:12-13
Light Bearers
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
2:12 Therefore: Paul desires the Philippians to respond positively to his admonition to have the mind of Christ (vv. 5–8). The command is to the entire group since the word you is plural. The subject is their mutual, corporate salvation (see 1:19, 28; Luke 22:24–30). work out: The Greek term speaks of the present deliverance of the Philippians. The word translated work out is used by the first-century author Strabo to speak of digging silver out of silver mines. Thus salvation can be compared to a huge gift that needs to be unwrapped for one’s thorough enjoyment. Note that Paul is encouraging the Philippians to develop and work out their salvation, but not to work for their salvation. (NKJV)
2:12 Therefore. Because of Christ’s incomparable example (vv. 5–11). obeyed. The commands of God as passed on to the Philippians by Paul (see Ro 1:5; 15:18; 2Co 10:5–6). my presence. During the course of Paul’s second (see Ac 16:12–40) and third (see Ac 20:1–3, 6) missionary journeys. work out your salvation. Work it out to the finish; not a reference to the attempt to earn one’s salvation by works, but a reference to the expression of one’s salvation in spiritual growth and development. Salvation is not merely a gift received once for all; it expresses itself in an ongoing process in which the believer is strenuously involved (cf. Mt 24:13; 1Co 9:24–27; Heb 3:14; 6:9–11; 2Pe 1:5–8)—the process of perseverance, humble service, spiritual growth and maturation. fear and trembling. Not because of doubt or anxiety; rather, the reference is to an active reverence and a singleness of purpose in response to God’s grace. (NIV)
The same man who wrote the above verses also wrote
Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Phillipians is often misused to instill fear into people, warning them that it means that they can lose salvation.
Is Paul encouraging believers to live in a continuous condition of nervousness and anxiety? If so thatwould contradict his many other writings concerning peace of mind, courage, and confidence in the God who authors our salvation.
The Greek word translated "fear" in this context also mean s"reverence" or "respect."
Paul uses the same phrase in
2 Corinthians 7:15
And his affections are greater for you as he remembers the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling you received him.
Here he talking about Titus and how he was encouraged by the Corinthians acceptance of him with "reference or respect"
To work out our salvation in fear and trembling is twofold.
The Greek verb rendered “work out” means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition."
This we do by pursuing obedience in the process of sanctification to become Christlike, pressing on towards that goal.
The trembling Paul talks about is the attitude Christians are to have in pursuing this goal—a healthy fear of offending God through disobedience and an awe and respect for God.
Trembling also serves another purpose which is to bring us to a dependency on God.
Obedience and and submission to God, who we revere and respect is our reasonable service.
Romans 12:1-2
Chapter 12
Living Sacrifices to God
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
We work out our salvation by going to the very source of our salvation, which is God and the Word of God which tells shows how to and our hearts and minds coming into His presence with a spirit of reverence and awe.
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willybob
Guest
Its NOT by any accident that fornication, abortion, sports idolatry, pagan holidays, feminism, (which is really female masculinity, and not feminine at all), rock and rap, witchcraft, sodomy, tattoos have become more than popular in recent years. This is because the apostate condition of XIANITY (Mystery Babylon), the cult that kidnapped the Christian faith has become clones of worldliness. Most of so-called preachers don’t even preach against sin, and have gone the greedy way of Balaam, (the gospel for dollars)> The 450 prophets of Baal (Protestantism), and 400 prophets of the Groves (Catholicism), are feeding at Jezebel’s table, (501 for prophet leaven of Herod & the Pharisees)…The 24/7, not of works mantra is a reflection of the above and feeds the beast and fans the flames. Many are like high pressure time share salesmen dispensing the ilk with great lust and passion.
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willybob
Guest
double cursed means total reprobate, like Paul spoke of in Romans 1, whereas he says such file sins of the flesh will disqualify one from the kingdom..
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Ariel82
Guest
Yeah...that line might work on someone who was raised in church traditions.
You are free to follow after man made interpretation of the text from folks like Wommack.
However if you read the whole chapter it shows that those passages are aimed at individuals who try and align themselves with teachers.
There is only one True gospel.
I would hope that is what people seek to believe and understand what God means and not what they hold dear as doctrine.
Your quote of "The 24/7, not of works mantra is a reflection of the above and feeds the beast and flames" is quite a big statement and to be honest I feel is disingenuous.
You lump everyone into to one category based on what? I would ask.
I am of a not a Works mantra.
I do not believe works save us, neither initially or subsequently.
I do believe though that works are evidence of our salvation.
No evidence then one could question salvation?
But the truth is we need to be very careful when it comes to works.
What works do you think are necessary to prove salvation and at what level?
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Ariel82
Guest
Paul is talking to spiritually immature infants in Christ in this chapter, NOT TEACHERS. We each have works that wi be judged but if our foundation is in Christ We will be saved. Every person (not just teachers) have the Holy Spirit and thus their bodies are temples of God.
If anyone kills a child of God, he will be punished by God.
1 Corinthians 3 ►
English Standard Version
1But I, brothers,a could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?
5What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. 6I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building.
10According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilledb master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
16Do you not know that youc are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.
18Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” 20and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” 21So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
If anyone kills a child of God, he will be punished by God.
1 Corinthians 3 ►
English Standard Version
1But I, brothers,a could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?
5What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. 6I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building.
10According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilledb master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
16Do you not know that youc are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.
18Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” 20and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” 21So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
It seems to me that you focus on the sins of the flesh and not doing that is not works.
Have I gor that wrong?
I posted this in GRACE 101 thread on Ephesians 2:8 as it is relevant.......
That not of yourselves is grammatically directed at the faith that saves.......
Have been saved out of faith, and this NOT OF YOURSELVES, of GOD the gift (is) Literal translation...
IT is the gift of FAITH that has led to one's "past tense" salvation!
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Christ is the SOURCE of OUR FAITH
Keeping our eyes on Jesus, the source and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that lay before Him endured a cross and despised the shame and has sat down at the right hand of God's throne.
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
PROFOUND TRUTHS denied and swept under the rug by ALL who say salvation can be lost....
a. JESUS is the Source of the faith that SAVES US
b. JESUS is the FINISHER of the faith that SAVES US
c. THE FAITH that JESUS STARTS and FININISHES WITH US is A GIFT
d. IT IS THIS GIFT OF FAITH that SAVED US
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
ἐν πίστει ζῶ τῇ τοῦ Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ
in flesh through faith I live that OF THE SON OF GOD
Jesus is the source, the beginner and finisher of our faith, of the FAITH that saves which is a GIFT
HIS FAITH gifted to US<--he starts, sustains and finishes it! FROM FAITH to FAITH the JUST shall LIVE by the FAITH....THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD!
TO LOSE FAITH and SALVATION JESUS MUST FAIL in his EFFORT that HE BEGAN and that which HE FINISHES
The scriptures are clear!
That not of yourselves is grammatically directed at the faith that saves.......
Have been saved out of faith, and this NOT OF YOURSELVES, of GOD the gift (is) Literal translation...
IT is the gift of FAITH that has led to one's "past tense" salvation!
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Christ is the SOURCE of OUR FAITH
Keeping our eyes on Jesus, the source and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that lay before Him endured a cross and despised the shame and has sat down at the right hand of God's throne.
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
PROFOUND TRUTHS denied and swept under the rug by ALL who say salvation can be lost....
a. JESUS is the Source of the faith that SAVES US
b. JESUS is the FINISHER of the faith that SAVES US
c. THE FAITH that JESUS STARTS and FININISHES WITH US is A GIFT
d. IT IS THIS GIFT OF FAITH that SAVED US
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
ἐν πίστει ζῶ τῇ τοῦ Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ
in flesh through faith I live that OF THE SON OF GOD
Jesus is the source, the beginner and finisher of our faith, of the FAITH that saves which is a GIFT
HIS FAITH gifted to US<--he starts, sustains and finishes it! FROM FAITH to FAITH the JUST shall LIVE by the FAITH....THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD!
TO LOSE FAITH and SALVATION JESUS MUST FAIL in his EFFORT that HE BEGAN and that which HE FINISHES
The scriptures are clear!
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Ariel82
Guest
Well at least we can agree that it should be our goal not to grieve the Holy Spirit.
There's a difference between the upright walk and the gift of righteousness by the way. Not sure if this has ever been brought up.
Righteousness is His and is imputed. Holy Spirit is ours...and we walk upright by His Spirit.
Righteousness is His and is imputed. Holy Spirit is ours...and we walk upright by His Spirit.
Another rant from Spongebob with no real substance.....more sinless, working for dogma........diatribe......love the speculation that lacks many facts and is full of opinion.........
Ariel, I am a little surprised at you. Certain people choose to make enemies of others
to expose them for crimes which are not crimes, to make them sound evil and terrible,
to say the worst possible ideas they can dream up, hoping for something to trap them
in. This is making enemies.
And you think this is a straw man. Do you not see this happening day in and day out?
What have I been guilty of? Describing what people believe and how they behave.
I think you have an antagonistic spirit that looks for the alternative interpretation rather
than also looking at the point being made. It might help you to see this is not a battle
but a question of gently shinning a light on peoples emotional states.
I have noticed you have falsely accused me of many emotional positions which I am not
in or have taken. Now if I am not in these places, how are you coming to your conclusions?
It is like if I am accused of insulting, slandering, making people angry. I can do this by just
saying hello. So it needs to be more than this or else it is just ego speaking, and emotional
history. One member confessed they wanted to hurt me, for a long time. We apologised to
each other, when I learnt this. Honestly I do not want to cause harm to people, but I know,
showing their framework fails hurts. But I believe not because of my framework but because
after many years I am secure in Christ.
I was told I was being boastful, or proud, or claiming sinless perfection. So I just have to smile.
Jesus said if they rejected Him, they will also reject you. And these same people respond now
just like they did 2 years ago when I shared about love and Christ being the centre of everything.
I know I fail and need Christ every moment of the day, in everything I do and say.
It is funny people asking me to repent and depend on Christ more, and not on myself. Different
places, different hearts. Sometimes it is not words, it is the waiting on God, just knowing and being,
abiding and praising, lifting up Holy hands to our King.
[video=youtube;FBDkbHucb10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBDkbHucb10[/video]
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Ariel82
Guest
Just looking at these verses we see the full salvation plan for our lives
1. We were sinners and dead.
2. God made us alive with Christ by his grace because of His love and mercy.
3, what do you think it means that we are raised up with him and seated in heavenly places?
4. We are saved by grace through faith, NOT OF WORKS! Therefore we should be humble and not boastful
5. We are God's workmanship and created for good works, which we walk in after salvation.
******
Ephesians 2
Butc God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
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Ariel82
Guest
in response to a conversation between dc and Stephen...
if this was all you said, it would be wonderful, but it's not...
this is also true..
the highest level of sin is rejecting Jesus.
That above statement you made...straw man #1
yeah pretty sure that most would agree with this,
did you just accuse Dcon of not knowing love and that's why you think sin isn't his enemy?
I agree and find G777 antireligion slogans annoying.
amen to that God's law and love and justice shines a light in this dark world.
yeah slander and animosity seems to be a common thing for folks to use here in BDF and used by anyone who doesn't agree.
We see it displayed in your next post where you slander folks you don't agree with.,,
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Why are you constantly elevating Christ's faith above his love for us? 1 cor 13 says Love is the greatest not his own faith.
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Ariel82
Guest
Peterjens, I am not accusing you of any "emotional position". I stop doing that days ago.
I simply stated you like to make strawmen and pretend it's what others believe when it's just a creation of your mind.
I asked you questions about your posts, but instead of clarifying what you meant. you act like you are a victim.
Is there even any point in conversing with you?
Perhaps you should hold up the mirror and examine your spirit.
If you truly believe that salvation is by Faith and not works, why haven't you been able to communicate it clearly and made peace?
I simply stated you like to make strawmen and pretend it's what others believe when it's just a creation of your mind.
I asked you questions about your posts, but instead of clarifying what you meant. you act like you are a victim.
Is there even any point in conversing with you?
Perhaps you should hold up the mirror and examine your spirit.
If you truly believe that salvation is by Faith and not works, why haven't you been able to communicate it clearly and made peace?