Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[UnderGrace]

Oh the irony!!!

Yes I have been recipient of your mean spirited comments .... but I will end with a smiley face cause that makes it all good

It's been my experience that people who talk hateful are hateful people. The same with accusations.

No different than others trolling CC.

 

[Stephen63]

Oh the irony!!!

Yes I have been recipient of your mean spirited comments .... but I will end with a smiley face cause that makes it all good

Who's talking about you? I'm not talking about you.

I don't have a clue what you're talking about.....

But..... I DO know what you're doing..... & if you persist to blame me for such, I'll have you reported for making false accusations.

 

[PeterJens]

Did you follow the conversation, PeterJens?

Sorry "renew". You are obviously upset. You need to say why you are upset, then
the other party knows what you feel they have done wrong.

I sometimes feel hurt and rejected by my family and have gone off very upset.
It takes a few phone calls to put things right again.

I have also observed is the wrong interpretation of words or ideas or invented problems
to create bad feeling, as if some terrible crime has been commited.
Some spend months being upset plotting revenge. I had a christian brother who did
this all the time, but what his faith is now I do not know. Currently he does not call
himself a believer. So people react in all different ways to different triggers, but good
communication helps.

 

[Katy-follower]

Well that just about killed my thread

 

[Chris1975]

Well that just about killed my thread

Here, let's revive it:

Hebrews 6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][b][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Verse 5 and 6 refers to people who were once believers. Any other interpretation means you choose to lie to yourself.

 

[PeterJens]

Not understanding Gods message and listening carefully to His instructions and teaching
mean men ignore Christs words, change His message and end up with gnostic easy believism.

And there escape about losing faith, is all the cases of losing faith or the parables they never
had faith in the first place. Now this is odd because Hebrews clearly states those who have
tasted of God, the Holy Spirit

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age
Heb 6:4-5

What have these people got
1. The heavenly gift
2. The Holy Spirit
3. Understood the word of God
4. Powers of the coming age

These people fall away or "who have fallen away"

The writer of hebrews wants it very clear, these guys knew everything and fell away.
If you tried no one could make it clearer, unless you want above all else to believe this
is impossible, and then you will change whatever is written.

 

[PeterJens]

On the point hebrews is trying to say you cannot be saved, unsaved and resaved,
the writer is actually saying if you know everything and walk away there is nothing
left.

 

[valiant]

Here, let's revive it:

Hebrews 6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][b][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Verse 5 and 6 refers to people who were once believers.

My view is it is speaking of those who are worked on by the Spirit in a revival atmosphere but who never come through to the full truth, and who are therefore guilty of the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

How else would it be impossible to renew them to repentance.?

 

[Chris1975]

My view is it is speaking of those who are worked on by the Spirit in a revival atmosphere but who never come through to the full truth, and who are therefore guilty of the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

How else would it be impossible to renew them to repentance.?

It says "renew them again to repentance". Which means they had come to repentance before, and had received these blessings and gifts. Then it says they lost them (because of falling away). Now its impossible to renew them AGAIN to repentance.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a short 3 minute video on Hebrews 6:4-6


[video=youtube;FZ4RjEqfXOg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ4RjEqfXOg[/video]

 

[Grace777x70]

And for those wanting to go further to listen. - here is a longer version - about 23 minutes long.

The reality is - You can no more lose your salvation "if" Christ is in you than Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

If salvation was dependent on "you" then you would need to create and maintain a works-righteousness religion. But the "good news" is called the good news for a reason - it is all about Christ and what He has done in His great work on the cross and resurrection.


[video=youtube;ymCgHPu7Nz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymCgHPu7Nz4[/video]

 

[valiant]

It says "renew them again to repentance". Which means they had come to repentance before, and had received these blessings and gifts. Then it says they lost them (because of falling away). Now its impossible to renew them AGAIN to repentance.

They had been brought to repentance, but had not yet believed. This happens often in revival. They had received no blessings and gifts, only a foretaste of them. They had lost nothing that they had.

You ought to consider the following verses 7 & 8 where they were barren land and not good land.

LOL you make it say what YOU want.

 

[Jimbone]

They had been brought to repentance, but had not yet believed. This happens often in revival. They had received no blessings and gifts, only a foretaste of them. They had lost nothing that they had.

You ought to consider the following verses 7 & 8 where they were barren land and not good land.

LOL you make it say what YOU want.

I truly appreciate your view on this, and your last few comment do make a lot of sense, and gave me a new perspective to consider. The thing is when you say things like "LOL you make it say what YOU want", it comes across to me that you're suggesting that you're immune to doing this yourself? Are you suggesting that your view is above reproach, and that you have it all figured out? Again I truly think what you're saying makes a lot of sense, but you often convey this kind of attitude that YOU are right and the rest of us just need to catch up with you. You may not even intend to come across like that, but you do, quit often honestly. Maybe a "the way I've come to understand it", or "Have you looked at it this way", may actually serve you better, and overall come across a tad less condescending and arrogant. Just a friendly observation.

 

[PeterJens]

And for those wanting to go further to listen. - here is a longer version - about 23 minutes long.

I think hebrews is being written as a warning.
If you in your heart know all the good things of God and then walk away, you
do great damage to yourself.

This is not like a show where you pick and mix, and wander off and maybe return

Jesus is a reality in front of you. The walk is real and the consequences also.

Look at Israel about to go into Palestine, they saw the people where big and strong
and got scared. They showed dishonour to God even though He had brought to Israel
and they were cast out and had to wander in the desert until they had died.

No one should take such words lightly.

 

[garee]

Not understanding Gods message and listening carefully to His instructions and teaching
mean men ignore Christs words, change His message and end up with gnostic easy believism.

And there escape about losing faith, is all the cases of losing faith or the parables they never
had faith in the first place. Now this is odd because Hebrews clearly states those who have
tasted of God, the Holy Spirit

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age
Heb 6:4-5

What have these people got
1. The heavenly gift
2. The Holy Spirit
3. Understood the word of God
4. Powers of the coming age

These people fall away or "who have fallen away"

The writer of hebrews wants it very clear, these guys knew everything and fell away.
If you tried no one could make it clearer, unless you want above all else to believe this
is impossible, and then you will change whatever is written.

It appears to be the results of offering dead works of repentance (faith towards God) every time a person falls ,again and again

They tasted not eaten. They experienced the literal bread they ate and equated that as evidence they had the Holy Spirit.

This is shown by dead works again and again coming from a dead faith as to What the Holy Sprit calls “no faith”. Faith in the scriptures is according the faith of God, their faith (self) came from what they experienced good works which is walking by sight crucifying the Lord of glory over and over.

Deu 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.


Experience is not the valudator of spiritual unseen truth.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

It says "renew them again to repentance". Which means they had come to repentance before, and had received these blessings and gifts. Then it says they lost them (because of falling away). Now its impossible to renew them AGAIN to repentance.

It means that a person cannot be born again a second, third, fourth time.

A person is born again one time. What the born again one receives at the time he/she is born again is incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23), and it is life eternal (1 John 5:13). Incorruptible seed does not become corrupt and eternal life does not become temporary.

The born again one doesn't get unborn again when he/she sins then born again when he/she repents then unborn again when he/she sins then born again when he/she repents.

A believer is born again one time. After that, confess the sin if/when he/she stumbles.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I believe the story of Noah is a foreshadowing of Christ, as well as the believer in Christ ---

Genesis 7:

13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.


Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary:

"God put Adam into paradise, but did not shut him in, so he threw himself out; but when God put Noah into the ark, and so when he brings a soul to Christ, the salvation is sure: it is not in our own keeping, but in the Mediator's hand."


Barnes' Notes on the Bible:

" 'And the Lord shut him in.' This is a fitting close to the scene. The whole work was manifestly the Lord's doing, from first to last. The personal name of God is appropriately introduced here. For the Everlasting now shows himself to be the causer or effecter of the covenant blessing promised to Noah."


Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary:

"and the Lord shut him in—literally, "covered him round about." The "shutting him in" intimated that Noah had become the special object of divine care and protection, and that to those without the season of grace was over (Mt 25:10)."


Matthew Poole's Commentary”

"Or, shut the door after him, or upon him, or for him, i.e. his good and safety, against the fury either of the waters or of the people. This God did in some extraordinary manner."


Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible:

"and the Lord shut him in; or shut the door after him (l), he being the last that entered; and which he could not so well shut himself, at least so close, as was done by the Lord, or by the angels; and this was done to keep out the waters, and all within in safety; and to shut out others, and preserve Noah from the rage of wicked men, as well as the violence of the waters"


Pulpit Commentary”

"And the Lord (Jehovah) shut him in. Literally, shut behind, him, i.e. closed up the door of the ark after him (ἐκλεισε τὴν κιβωτὸν ἔξωθεν αὐτοῦ, LXX.); doubtless miraculously, to preserve him both from the violence of the waters and the rage of men. The contrast between the two names of the Deity is here most vividly presented. It is Elohim who commands him about the beasts; it is Jehovah, the covenant God, who insures his safety by closing the ark behind him."


Genesis 7:16 Commentaries: Those that entered, male and female of all flesh, entered as God had commanded him; and the LORD closed it behind him.

 

[Chris1975]

It means that a person cannot be born again a second, third, fourth time.

A person is born again one time. What the born again one receives at the time he/she is born again is incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23), and it is life eternal (1 John 5:13). Incorruptible seed does not become corrupt and eternal life does not become temporary.

The born again one doesn't get unborn again when he/she sins then born again when he/she repents then unborn again when he/she sins then born again when he/she repents.

A believer is born again one time. After that, confess the sin if/when he/she stumbles.

Where have I spoken about born again regarding the above? You are introducing this into the discussion. I never said they are born again, and again, and again, etc. you are implying that I have said this. Big difference.

You are born again only once. This is where the spirit comes to life and you are then either led by the spirit or by the flesh. Your decision as to whom you serve is made by your inner man (soul). If you serve the Spirit you live. If you serve the flesh, this leads to death. Serving the flesh (without repentance) leads to apostasy, from which there is no return. Then you are twice dead. No possibility to be born again.

 

[stonesoffire]

For when people have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become sharers in the Ruach HaKodesh, and tasted the goodness of God's Word and the powers of the 'olam haba...and then have fallen away...it is impossible to renew them so that they turn from their sin, as long as for themselves they keep executing the Son of God on the stake all over again and keep holding Him up to public contempt.

Complete Jewish Bible

I think it is referring to the new birth...

Wouldn't this be someone who knows the truth of the gospel, but really hasn't made Jesus Lord of their life?

Falling away would be because the ground of our hearts.. is not prepared adequately.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You are born again only once. This is where the spirit comes to life and you are then either led by the spirit or by the flesh. Your decision as to whom you serve is made by your inner man (soul). If you serve the Spirit you live. If you serve the flesh, this leads to death. Serving the flesh (without repentance) leads to apostasy, from which there is no return. Then you are twice dead. No possibility to be born again.

You completely misinterpret Hebrews 6 as well Jude 1:12.

There is return from apostasy which you refuse to acknowledge even though you have been shown Scripture supporting same.

The Lord Jesus Christ Himself seeks after the one who belongs to Him (Luke 15:4-7). And please note that vss 4 and 5 both indicate that He searches until He finds the lost one. And vs 5 indicates He places the lost one on His shoulders and carries him/her back to the fold.

In the parable of the forgiving father (Luke 15:11-32), the son returned home. The father didn't reject the son and tell him "sorry son. you fell into apostasy and there is no return for you".

Quit insisting that a born again believer, who has Holy Spirit inside of him/her Who is continuously writing the law upon his/her heart and mind, can fall into apostasy from which there is no return. That is a lie from the pit!