Tithing...
- Thread starter 88
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Is it right to expect a return when we give to God? God encourages us to test Him in giving***(Malachi 3:10) "Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in mine house, and test me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open for you the windows of heaven, and pour out for you a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for you sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast its fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts." ***the key in giving is our attitude and motives***if we are giving to get in a selfish way this is wrong, but if we are giving so we can give to missions and help the poor, ect., this is correct***(Luke 6:38)*** "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure ye measure it shall be measured to you again." ***Should we have faith to receive a blessing when we give? If our motives and attitudes are correct we should want to receive from the Lord so what we receive will run over and bless others...
Malachi 3.10 is no mandate for givers under the new covenant.
Luke 6.38 is another famous verse used by tithe enforcers, that is taken completely out of context and that has zero to do with financial giving.
Lets back up a few verses to understand what Jesus was really saying in Luke 6.38
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. [SUP]32 [/SUP]If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. [SUP]33 [/SUP]If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. [SUP]34 [/SUP]If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. [SUP]35 [/SUP]But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. [SUP]37 [/SUP]“Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. [SUP]38 [/SUP]Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure—pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.”
The understanding of every verse after Vs 31 is reading Vs 31, which says:
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Treat others the same way you want them to treat you.
Give and it will be given to you has zero to do with giving offerings , tithes or financially at all.
The context is clear and not about giving money, "sowing" seed, or other nonsense.
Luke 6.38 is another famous verse used by tithe enforcers, that is taken completely out of context and that has zero to do with financial giving.
Lets back up a few verses to understand what Jesus was really saying in Luke 6.38
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. [SUP]32 [/SUP]If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. [SUP]33 [/SUP]If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. [SUP]34 [/SUP]If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. [SUP]35 [/SUP]But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. [SUP]37 [/SUP]“Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. [SUP]38 [/SUP]Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure—pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.”
The understanding of every verse after Vs 31 is reading Vs 31, which says:
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Treat others the same way you want them to treat you.
Give and it will be given to you has zero to do with giving offerings , tithes or financially at all.
The context is clear and not about giving money, "sowing" seed, or other nonsense.
Tithing is not "taught" or "commanded" at any time before the giving of the Levitical law. It is only mentioned. Don't build doctrine from narrative.
While your story is interesting, it has no Scripture and therefore, in this context, little didactic value. Your mother told you that you were making excuses and you followed her direction. Nothing to do with Scripture there at all. Further, unless you have done adequate study on the matter (I have) and prayed at length about it (I have) and read everything you can find on it (I have) then your judgmental comment has little weight. Having read, and prayed, and studied, I have concluded that Christians are not required to tithe.
Repeating an already-refuted position does you no credit.
While your story is interesting, it has no Scripture and therefore, in this context, little didactic value. Your mother told you that you were making excuses and you followed her direction. Nothing to do with Scripture there at all. Further, unless you have done adequate study on the matter (I have) and prayed at length about it (I have) and read everything you can find on it (I have) then your judgmental comment has little weight. Having read, and prayed, and studied, I have concluded that Christians are not required to tithe.
Repeating an already-refuted position does you no credit.
The sad thing about tithing is that for many years Pastors have taught their people that the bible commanded them to tithe their money to the church, while all the time they knew that the bible really did not teach that, they were willing to lie about the word of God in order to bring in more money to the church...scary.
I did. I was tithing faithfully, and going deeper into debt. After questioning what I was being taught, studying the matter thoroughly in Scripture, reading everything I could find on the subject, and praying at length, I came to the conclusion that Christians are not required to tithe.
I found that everything I read that was in favour of tithing violated at least one hermeneutical principle. Not that everything against tithing was sound, but much of it was. The most important principle, of course, is that the New Covenant in Christ's blood is NOT the old covenant given to the Hebrews. This is clearly taught in Romans, Galatians, Hebrews, and of course in Acts 15, at the council in Jerusalem wherein James' summary does not mention tithing.
I found that everything I read that was in favour of tithing violated at least one hermeneutical principle. Not that everything against tithing was sound, but much of it was. The most important principle, of course, is that the New Covenant in Christ's blood is NOT the old covenant given to the Hebrews. This is clearly taught in Romans, Galatians, Hebrews, and of course in Acts 15, at the council in Jerusalem wherein James' summary does not mention tithing.
The sad thing about tithing is that for many years Pastors have taught their people that the bible commanded them to tithe their money to the church Since the mid 1800's, anyway.
while all the time they knew that the bible really did not teach that I think many have just not studied the topic. They were taught it and have gone with it.
while all the time they knew that the bible really did not teach that I think many have just not studied the topic. They were taught it and have gone with it.
I was only 19 and tithed and was perplexed because I could not find the scriptural commandment, I knew that what was being quoted did not cover mandatory tithing for Christians. It bothered me so I asked my Baptist Pastor when I got out of the Navy, he got mad at first and then admitted that it was not really in the bible. So later and in another state I asked a Pastor where it was in the bible for us to tithe, he really got mad and said he did not want to hear any of that nickel and dime stuff. Years later I asked another Pastor and after a bit he admitted it was not in the bible to which I replied, why not just tell people the truth, to which he replied, if we did that they would not give. I found it astounding that Pastors teaching us about the Man whose very name is truth, would lie about His word so they could have more money.
When I started studying the matter, I was surprised at how much I had been taught which did not line up with Scripture.
For example, I'd heard and read that because tithing predated Moses, it is not fulfilled by Christ's death on the cross. As I read Galatians during my study, I saw that if one mentally replaces "circumcision" with "tithing" (and appropriate derivatives), it becomes clear how it is not for today.
Something which I learned was that with the festival tithe, the Israelites were given licence to purchase and consume strong drink. I chuckle when I read arguments that "wine" was actually just grape juice.
For example, I'd heard and read that because tithing predated Moses, it is not fulfilled by Christ's death on the cross. As I read Galatians during my study, I saw that if one mentally replaces "circumcision" with "tithing" (and appropriate derivatives), it becomes clear how it is not for today.
Something which I learned was that with the festival tithe, the Israelites were given licence to purchase and consume strong drink. I chuckle when I read arguments that "wine" was actually just grape juice.
Last edited:
It's not wrong to tithe in the New Covenant because it says Jesus is still receiving tithes in Hebrews.
He doesn't receive things unto Himself that are not God's will... so in the New Covenant... God desires your tithe, offerings, alms but He leaves it up to us whether we desire to honor Him with our money (and possessions)... or hoard up money and stuff for ourselves.
He's watching you to see what you will do and will render unto you accordingly!
He doesn't receive things unto Himself that are not God's will... so in the New Covenant... God desires your tithe, offerings, alms but He leaves it up to us whether we desire to honor Him with our money (and possessions)... or hoard up money and stuff for ourselves.
He's watching you to see what you will do and will render unto you accordingly!
Where does it say that Jesus is still receiving tithes in Hebrews? It was written in the first century, and wrote of priests who 'receive tithes.'
Hebrews 7
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
I believe many early Christians paid tithes. They were Jewish, and paid them into the Old Testament priestly system. Some early Christians received tithes, because there were Aaronic priests in the church. It says in Acts that many priests became obedient to the faith. But those weren't automatically the elders of the church.
Barnabas was a Levite. He could have received of the tithes of the third year. It is possible.
Hebrews 7
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
I believe many early Christians paid tithes. They were Jewish, and paid them into the Old Testament priestly system. Some early Christians received tithes, because there were Aaronic priests in the church. It says in Acts that many priests became obedient to the faith. But those weren't automatically the elders of the church.
Barnabas was a Levite. He could have received of the tithes of the third year. It is possible.
God desires your tithe There was multiple types of tithes, not one. If people are going to push tithing, then they're ripping God off when they suggest there is just one.
or hoard up money and stuff for ourselves. Exactly, because nobody lives paycheck to paycheck or struggles to make ends meet. All those that make such a suggestion are lying, greedy, selfish cheaters.
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -1 Cor 9:7
or hoard up money and stuff for ourselves. Exactly, because nobody lives paycheck to paycheck or struggles to make ends meet. All those that make such a suggestion are lying, greedy, selfish cheaters.
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -1 Cor 9:7
