Not By Works

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Ariel82

Guest
This below is absolute nonsense and it is NOT what anyone that I have listened to says.

It is a mis-representation of what is said and a complete distortion for sure. I have listened to over 1,000 messages from all sorts of different grace teachers from different denominational background and never once heard this nonsense below.

Quote:

Here is a brief description for those who don't know what Hyper-Grace is:

The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality

Unquote:

What gets me is - this has been showed to be false and in fact a complete lie and yet people still posts these lies. Make no mistake about it - there is an all out war on the grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Hyper grace is another way of saying Antinomism.

Therefore, why claim the word?

Why not just talk of God's grace?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Hyper grace is another way of saying Antinomism.

Therefore, why claim the word?

Why not just talk of God's grace?

It is a complete lie. What happens is that people mis-represent what is said and "twist" it and then people post these things as if they are real.

Some people have adopted the term because people used the term in a derogatory way to dis-credit the gospel of the grace of God. So, they took the term that was meant to dis-credit them and turned it into something good.

It is the concept of people throwing lemons at you and so you take the lemons and make lemonade with it.

The believers in the grace of God did not come up with the now derogatory term - others did.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Preaching the love and true super abundant grace of God in Christ's work on the cross no more leads people to antinomianism and sinning then loving your spouse leads you to Ashely Madison.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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What gets me is - this has been showed to be false and in fact a complete lie and yet people still posts these lies. Make no mistake about it - there is an all out war on the grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The accusation is HG preachers do not ever hold sin is not an issue, God does not see it.
Here is Andrew Wommack teaching

In fact, sin isn’t even an issue with God. Why? Because our sin is not being imputed, or charged, to our account. It’s being charged to Jesus’ account, and He already paid the bill.

Is Jesus Enough - Andrew Wommack Ministries

Now the problem has always been the general theological thrust of the movement,
and what pops up and is approved of.

These are no minor issues, but core theological points. To dismiss them as lies is
a serious error of judgement, when they are clearly taught and believed by many within
the group.
 
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Ariel82

Guest

It is a complete lie. What happens is that people mis-represent what is said and "twist" it and then people post these things as if they are real.

Some people have adopted the term because people used the term in a derogatory way to dis-credit the gospel of the grace of God. So, they took the term that was meant to dis-credit them and turned it into something good.

It is the concept of people throwing lemons at you and so you take the lemons and make lemonade with it.

The believers in the grace of God did not come up with the now derogatory term - others did.
Hyper Calvinism is a real thing too, but most reformed folks have a enough sense to reject that straw man instead of embracing it.

Like I said I don't care to talk about hyper grace, it sounds like a straw man in the current conversation.
.I am sure there are teachers of hyper grace just like there are teachers of hyper Calvinism.
.I just don't believe Dcon or EG teach hyper grace as defined by the definition of those who coined the phrase.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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The other recurring theme is not to talk what the teachers actually teach or the context
but just declare the criticisms are lies and the critics evil.

This is an odd approach unless there is no actual defence because the criticisms are true
and to get involved in the discussion destroys the very foundation they are trying to establish.

One example of this was I built a statement of faith of the belief system and was told I had it
wrong. The person then produced their own statement of faith, which turned out to be the
same, yet still believed they had refuted the arguments.

It is because the reasons people are going down this road are not doctrinal but emotional,due
to trauma or some problem with traditional faith, and this seems to resolve the issues.
Obviously then to bring light and context to the position, then exposes the original problems
with faith the believer had, so it is resisted very strongly, and possibly irrationally.

But the freedom found in Christ is real, and the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome this
world is the promise of the cross, so so much of what is hoped for is actually there in
traditional faith, the question is why it has not been realised in some peoples hearts.

Now in Christ I can do no other than share and stand, because not to stand is to say
this new interpretation is real and not flawed.

So I say God bless you, In Christ we have the victory over the world, Amen.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Preaching the love and true super abundant grace of God in Christ's work on the cross no more leads people to antinomianism and sinning then loving your spouse leads you to Ashely Madison.
No but never preaching on godly living and how the Holy Spirit chastens His kids can also lead to an inaccurate view of God.


.not that I have read enough of any of those who are accused of hyper grace to see if they do or don't preach how to live godly lives. Just if they don't, they need to.

If they do, then what's the big deal?

A majority of the world are against Christians.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Hyper Calvinism is a real thing too, but most reformed folks have a enough sense to reject that straw man instead of embracing it.

Like I said I don't care to talk about hyper grace, it sounds like a straw man in the current conversation.
.I am sure there are teachers of hyper grace just like there are teachers of hyper Calvinism.
.I just don't believe Dcon or EG teach hyper grace as defined by the definition of those who coined the phrase.
No one that I have seen teaches the nonsense put up in that quote. I have listened to over a 1,000 messages from different people from different denominational backgrounds and never heard the garbage being said.

I have heard many, many times people "twisting" what was said to mis-represent what is really being said.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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No but never preaching on godly living and how the Holy Spirit chastens His kids can also lead to an inaccurate view of God.


.not that I have read enough of any of those who are accused of hyper grace to see if they do or don't preach how to live godly lives. Just if they don't, they need to.

If they do, then what's the big deal?

A majority of the world are against Christians.

I have quoted myself as well as many others over 100x times that the grace of God "teaches" us how to live godly in this present world. Titus 2:11-12

Sometimes the people in the world are against Christians because of their behavior and we are known for what we are against - instead of revealing the love and grace of God the way Jesus did. Jesus was very harsh to the self-righteousness of the Pharisees
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I love this article about the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Is Jesus Enough - Andrew Wommack Ministries

Is Jesus Enough

Would God send His only Son to bear our sin, becoming sin itself, and then judge Him without mercy for that sin if His sacrifice wasn’t enough? No! Yet, many Christians act as though it wasn’t enough and continue to believe God is withholding His blessing because of their sin. It’s time to learn the truth.

Over the years I have ministered to thousands of people directly who just won’t let the Bible get in the way of their theology. Religious traditions and widely-accepted teaching have become the basis of their beliefs, rather than the Bible. The results are obvious: Their relationship with Christ is profiting them little or at the very least less than God intended.
These are people who have accepted Jesus as their Savior. Yet, they can’t get healed, they’re unhappy, depressed, fearful, and full of unbelief. That shouldn’t be! As you read, I encourage you to allow the Bible, God’s Word, to get right in the middle of your theology.

Let me start by making this radical statement. If you’re conscious of sin, then you truly don’t understand the grace of your salvation through Jesus. It sounds radical, but it’s true. That is totally different than the way most people think. I’m not saying this to hurt anybody, because I understand; I struggle with the same thing.

It’s different than what most of us have been told. But this is what God’s Word declares. God is not imputing, or laying to our account, our sin.

Second Corinthians 5:19 says,
“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation,” (emphasis mine).

Sin consciousness has been ground into us. Grace is not the way of the world. Your employer doesn’t hire you by grace and promise to pay no matter what you do; they have expectations of performance. In marriage, spouses don’t always love each other unconditionally.

Even in most Christian families, children are either rewarded or punished based on their performance.
In this earth almost everything is based on performance, and because it is, it always forces us to focus on our weaknesses. That performance mentality then transfers into religion where we’re taught to focus on our sin. However, where God is concerned, it’s just the opposite. In fact, sin isn’t even an issue with God. Why? Because our sin is not being imputed, or charged, to our account. It’s being charged to Jesus’ account, and He already paid the bill.

I know a lot of churches that would throw me out for saying that, but it’s what the Bible teaches. It’s time to let the Bible get in the way of wrong theology. Hebrews is one of my favorite books of the Bible. I wish I had space to put the whole book into context because it has a lot to say about how God dealt with sin.

Hebrews 9:11-12 says,

“But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us,” (emphasis mine).

If words mean anything, think about these words: Jesus entered in once! Do you know what once means in the Greek? It means once. It means He doesn’t do it over and over again. Every time you sin, the Lord doesn’t have to wait until you repent and then get that sin under the blood.

Most Christians believe that when you’re born again, you get your sins forgiven up to that point. Then, every time you sin after becoming a Christian, you’ve got to run to the Lord with that sin and confess and repent, or you could be lost. If not lost and on your way to hell, then at the very least, God would not fellowship with you, and He certainly wouldn’t answer your prayers.

If that were true, then everybody would be on their way to hell. There isn’t a person on this earth who doesn’t have either a known or an unknown unconfessed sin. Or, if sin just means the loss of relationship with God and unanswered prayers, then God wouldn’t have a single person qualified to receive an answer to prayer or fellowship with Him. Was Jesus enough or not?

This is a huge issue. It’s the reason many believe God isn’t healing them or prospering them. They say out of one side of their mouths that He loves them and sacrificed His Son, Jesus, for their salvation, and then out of the other side, they say that He is still judging them for sin. Those are incompatible!

Hebrews 9: 13-15 goes on to say,

“For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance,” (underlines mine).

It isn’t God who is condemning us when we sin; it’s our own consciences. We haven’t purged our consciences with the truth of what Jesus has done with sin. Satan knows that and is using it to condemn us and destroy our faith and confidence in God by reminding us we don’t deserve God’s blessing.

Praise God, He isn’t giving you what you deserve; He is giving you what Jesus deserves. Jesus paid for sin one time, past, present, and even the sins you will commit in the future. How can that be, you ask? I don’t know exactly, but let me tell you this, Jesus only died one time for our sins two thousand years ago, so you better hope He can forgive your sins before you commit them.

Hebrews 9:25-28 says,

“Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with the blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many,” (emphasis mine).

God knows the end from the beginning and He knew all the sins of the whole world. Jesus paid for all those committed before His sacrifice and for all that had not yet been committed. He made the payment once and it will never be made again.

The price for sin, all sin, has been paid!

We have received an eternal inheritance (Heb. 9:15) that cannot be taken away. Your inheritance is not temporary; it’s eternal. You aren’t disinherited and you don’t lose the benefits of being part of the family because of sin.

To understand this, you have to see yourself as God sees you. In your born-again spirit, you are as clean and holy and pure as Jesus is. Religion has you looking at your flesh. It has you searching the soulish realm of thoughts, attitudes, and feelings. But that is not what God is looking at. He is looking at your spirit, the part of you that’s become a new creation.
Second Corinthians 5:17 says,

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
And in John 4:24 we read,

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

What part of you is new? It’s not the flesh and it’s not the soul; it’s your born-again spirit. When you go to God in prayer and say “O God, I’m so ungodly and so unworthy, please forgive me, please answer my prayer,” you are not in the spirit; you are in the flesh. Your spirit is righteous, holy, and pure. Sin does not affect your spirit.

Am I saying sin is okay? Absolutely not! When you sin, you give Satan an open door to the soul, your mind and emotions, as well as opportunity to destroy your physical body. It’s just stupid to open yourself up to the devil.
Some of you may still be thinking, Well, I know God died once for all men, but His sacrifice still must be applied whenever we sin. Let’s allow God’s Word to get In the way of this wrong theology again.

Hebrews 10:10-12, 14 says,

“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified,” (emphasis mine).

This is not talking about your physical body or your soul; it’s talking about your born-again spirit. Your spirit is identical to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is sinless! Your soul and your body can be defiled by sin, but your spirit never can; it’s sealed forever.

Maturity in the Christian life isn’t about trying to grow your spirit up; it’s trying to educate, or renew, your mind to what you already have in your spirit. Your spirit is already perfect! You already have the fruit of the Spirit—love, joy, peace, long-suffering, and the rest. Your spirit is always happy, always rejoicing, and always healthy.

God loves you even though you’ve messed up, even though you aren’t perfect. He loves you not because of your performance but because of Jesus’ sacrifice. If you can ever get a revelation of what I am teaching, it will change the way you see God forever.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Immature Christians look like the world and behave like it.

Mature Christians display what it looks like walking with the Holy Spirit: they have good works and good fruit and are meek, humble and speak truth without taking offense at the immaturity of young Christians. They kindly correct and are long suffering.

.unfortunately the world lacks truly mature Christians who consistently display God's love, peace, truth and gentleness.

I recognise that I am still learning to discern good from bad
 
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Ariel82

Guest
See I have issues with that article G777.

We can start with this statement:
This is a huge issue. It’s the reason many believe God isn’t healing them or prospering them. They say out of one side of their mouths that He loves them and sacrificed His Son, Jesus, for their salvation, and then out of the other side, they say that He is still judging them for sin. Those are incompatible!
God still sees when we sin. He isn't blinded by the blood to our need to live holy and godly lives.

He has adopted us His kids and the next thing he does is feed us milk of His Word and teach us to discern right and wrong. Then He sends us as ambassadors for His ministry to the world.

The reason why God doesn't give physical healing to all people or make everyone millionaires/have worldly prosperity is because that isn't God's plan for His elect.

He has a message to give to the world and His messanger will be treated worst than slaves, beaten, ridiculed and left homeless at times in this world.

Jesus warned of this but WOF teachers FALSELY claim that God promises people material wealth and no troubles, but the Bible never does promise that in this life. Only in the world to come. We are not home yet, we are strangers in this land making our way back home to our King.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
God chastens His children for their sins.

True or false statement?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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God chastens His children for their sins.

True or false statement?

God chastens His children with His word.

If we want to see how God disciplines - look to Jesus and see how He disciplined the disciples.

Jesus came to do the will of the Father and to reveal the Father's true nature to us. Jesus is perfect theology.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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See I have issues with that article G777.

We can start with this statement:


God still sees when we sin. He isn't blinded by the blood to our need to live holy and godly lives.

He has adopted us His kids and the next thing he does is feed us milk of His Word and teach us to discern right and wrong. Then He sends us as ambassadors for His ministry to the world.

The reason why God doesn't give physical healing to all people or make everyone millionaires/have worldly prosperity is because that isn't God's plan for His elect.

He has a message to give to the world and His messanger will be treated worst than slaves, beaten, ridiculed and left homeless at times in this world.

Jesus warned of this but WOF teachers FALSELY claim that God promises people material wealth and no troubles, but the Bible never does promise that in this life. Only in the world to come. We are not home yet, we are strangers in this land making our way back home to our King.
You are entitled to your own opinion. Personally I believe God wants us well and healthy and that He blesses us to be a blessing to others in the world so that they can see His grace and love towards them. The millionaire stuff is nonsense. God promises us to be richly supplied so that we can bless others.

I have never heard of this "no trouble" stuff. Jesus said in the world you will have tribulations but be of good cheer for I have overcome the world.

 
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Ariel82

Guest
Here is another door to the false doctrine that your sin "opens the door" for satanic attacks.

Am I saying sin is okay? Absolutely not! When you sin, you give Satan an open door to the soul, your mind and emotions, as well as opportunity to destroy your physical body. It’s just stupid to open yourself up to the devil.
Satan isn't "given rights " when you sin.
.
He is always there waiting to deceive and lead you astray.

What happens when people sin is their connection to God becomes darker.

We turn away from His light when we sin and the world grows darker, joy leaves and depression is common. This is when we need our siblings to rebuke us and and remind us of God's light.
.this is when Satan's voice seems louder than God's because we have wandered into Satan's darkness.

However God still waits with open arms for us to return.He sends his messengers both heavenly and earthly to draw His kids back home to Him. His Holy spirit lights the path of our steps if we but stop and listen.

Satan doesn't have access to a believers heart,soul or emotions.

He can whispers lies and YOU have the choice to reject the lies or allow them to change your mind by believing lies about yourself or others...change your heart by speaking those lies or affect your soul by winning against others based on those lies you accepted.

Satan only has the power in your life that you give to him.

God has given all His kids the power to overcome all the forces of darkness in this world.
 

blessedjohn80

Senior Member
Mar 6, 2016
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No but never preaching on godly living and how the Holy Spirit chastens His kids can also lead to an inaccurate view of God.
If the focus is on God's grace, meaning Jesus' perfect work, then it's hard to imagine how anyone can miss preaching godly living.

Jesus' life, death, ascension is basically the substance of both the whole old and new testament.

What I'm trying to say is if one is to preach God's grace then they are basically preaching godly living as well.

On the other hand, those who focus too much on preaching of godly living, as many religions do, have a greater chance of producing ungodly lives. The catholics are a prime example of this, I know, because I used to be one.

Preaching godly living is great but it isn't the root, Jesus is.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Preaching about Jesus as the root should be done. Preaching how the root will produce fruit is good. Preaching how folks are joined together as the Body of Christ is also good.

Preaching half the gospel, is a lie which ever half you choose to preach. One half leads to lictenious, the other leads to works salvation. Both are false.

We should preach the WHOLE gospel...not only,that Jesus died on the cross for our sins but also that he Rose again and sent His Holy spirit to teach us how to live godly lives,