Not By Works

[Grace777x70]

I would rather discuss specific doctrines,than preachers.

They aren't here to answer questions, so i find it pointless and seems more like gossip to me than productive discussion.

For example we can examine how name it claim it is a false doctrine and unbiblical...

However when folks start naming folks i have never heard of or meet my eyes glaze over.

I agree about the minister thing for sure. I also believe that every minister sent by God has a particular anointing to teach on a certain area and it is important to get that truth but that doesn't mean everything else they teach is right on. We also shouldn't be castigating them publicly for it either.

Name it and claim it is something that needs to be defined. I do name that I am the righteousness of God in Christ because God says I am so I claim that as being true in my life.

I claim that l my needs are met according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.

I actually name and claim lot's of things - also I never use that terminology in my thinking.


Now if some one says "I name and claim that I am a billionaire in Christ" then that is foolishness.

So, to me - it depends what is being "named and claimed" or it's just a label we put on people that is meaningless and could be strife and division causing.

 

[dcontroversal]

if you can not earn salvation, you can't lose it, You can only lose something you must earn. Period

end of story, people who say otherwise teach works period.

And it is clear that works do not save or keep saved...Galatians is clear...chapters 1 and 3 is clear...those who teach faith and works for....foolish and bewitched....

 

[dcontroversal]

if we commit even the least of all sin, we are guilty of the whole law.

All sin sin is the same in Gods eye, a liar is just as guilty as a murderer, bearing false witness makes one just as guilty as rape and murder, it is hard for us in the flesh to see this, but God said it is true

Yet the workers for and sinless perfectionist crew quantify and qualify sin.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes I was one of those guests looking to get out of the gospel of works (working to maintain my salvation) and your posts help me see the gospel of grace!!

Absolutely true

Here is the offensive horrible hyper grace message again for any guest out there....

The Bible says, the grace of God teaches you how to deny ungodliness.

Religion says, “Try harder.” Grace says, “Rest in the work of Christ and be changed

Love the view...the OP was sufficient to prove salvation is void of human effort and or works....

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm amazed that many of you have argued the same things over and over and over and over in this thread for a loooooonnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggggggggggg period of time. Then you pick up where you left off the next day. And the next, and the next to infinitum. Seems to be the definition of insanity.

At least some are willing to defend the faith instead of bloviating or spewing opinions.......funny thing.....in your threads I have seen you do exactly the same....defend your position over and over and over and over yet no one condemns you for your stance...........

 

[Gabriel2020]

Those that practice heresy ,apostasy, and hypocrisy , God will bring to an end in due season. they planted the seed, it will grow, and when in full bloom, harvest time will be at hand.. The process of time, day by day, day after day. It will come to an end. They don't realize that they error from the faith.. They were among us, and they departed because they were not of us.

 

[willybob]

Pride is a root (motive of the heart) that promotes self for the purpose of receiving the approval of men, therefore perceiving strength in numbers to be the proof in the pudding. Once they drink straightway of the old wine they say the old is better.. Thus the word cannot conform a person to godliness in such an environment of the soul, because pride resists the truth, resists the truth, resists the truth, and won’t come to the light, wont crucify the flesh to the point that the word can no longer work therein anymore, (the unpardonable sin, blasphemy of the Holy Ghost). Pride and greed will not deal with the parts of the bible that comes against the flesh. They preach blessings and easy grace while Satan and his chain gang comes marching in…

 

[willybob]

The apostle James says the tongues is full of poison, and from the same mouth comes blessings and cursings amongst the wicked..They bless God with one side of their mouth, and curse their neighbor with the other…..they curse their neighbor with resentment, with false accusations, with envy, with jealousy, with gossip being tale bearers, with slander etc. etc and then sing blessings to God

 

[PeterJens]

I confess my sins to God in order to get forgiveness and then He tells me He has ALREADY forgiven me. Then shows me how to fix what I did (ask forgiveness from someone, repay someone if I broke or toke something that didn't belong to me, etc.)

Sometimes He tells me He will take care of it and to just rest and He will show me what to do in the morning.

There is nothing wrong in asking God for forgiveness.

It's only wrong if you don't believe God can forgive you and you avoid praying and seeking God because of your fear.

Amen. God bless you. Your summaries about so much good stuff, real blessing
and then this odd twist or hook, that took the heart out.

The key discernment for me is joy or condemnation through reading the sermon on
the mount. This small passage is my life, the rock on which I am built. I am a lover
of Christ and His ways. I have had much turmoil over this, but now I see. It is a walk
and we need Jesus and the cross daily, in all things.

Without an open heart, emotions and loyalties laid bear, we will always shut Christ out.
We are so individualistic in the west, being broken before the cross is not anywhere
people want to go, but here is the wisdom of God, you lose your life in this world to
gain an everlasting one in Christ, Amen. The rules have always been the same broken
and open before Christ, remade and redeemed in Him forever. Hallelujah

 

[Ariel82]

Pride is a root (motive of the heart) that promotes self for the purpose of receiving the approval of men, therefore perceiving strength in numbers to be the proof in the pudding. Once they drink straightway of the old wine they say the old is better.. Thus the word cannot conform a person to godliness in such an environment of the soul, because pride resists the truth, resists the truth, resists the truth, and won’t come to the light, wont crucify the flesh to the point that the word can no longer work therein anymore, (the unpardonable sin, blasphemy of the Holy Ghost). Pride and greed will not deal with the parts of the bible that comes against the flesh. They preach blessings and easy grace while Satan and his chain gang comes marching in…

Don't know about you, but the God I worship is stronger than human pride.

Most have stated that AFTER being saved by GOD, HE will teach people how to live godly lives. So the endless straw man that folks teach a licentious gospel is getting old.

 

[Ariel82]

Amen. God bless you. Your summaries about so much good stuff, real blessing
and then this odd twist or hook, that took the heart out.

The key discernment for me is joy or condemnation through reading the sermon on
the mount. This small passage is my life, the rock on which I am built. I am a lover
of Christ and His ways. I have had much turmoil over this, but now I see. It is a walk
and we need Jesus and the cross daily, in all things.

Without an open heart, emotions and loyalties laid bear, we will always shut Christ out.
We are so individualistic in the west, being broken before the cross is not anywhere
people want to go, but here is the wisdom of God, you lose your life in this world to
gain an everlasting one in Christ, Amen. The rules have always been the same broken
and open before Christ, remade and redeemed in Him forever. Hallelujah

I don't know about the west comment and maybe God has just blessed me with my church family but I know many who lay themselves before God in prayer. It's humbling to watch and walk beside people going through grief or deep loss.

We pray and wait upon the Lord.

 

[Ariel82]

The apostle James says the tongues is full of poison, and from the same mouth comes blessings and cursings amongst the wicked..They bless God with one side of their mouth, and curse their neighbor with the other…..they curse their neighbor with resentment, with false accusations, with envy, with jealousy, with gossip being tale bearers, with slander etc. etc and then sing blessings to God

Actually James says it to believers, not the wicked. Just after he warns them that not many people should be teachers. Just before he tells us the difference between earthly demonic wisdom and heavenly wisdom.

It's one of the chapters I read a lot to help me learn discernment and determine who I listen to concerning doctrines versus who is spiritually immature.

 

[Ariel82]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128776-cheap-grace-free-grace.html

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-you-see-goda-s-grace-he-sees-your-faith.html

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129506-how-recognize-mixed-grace-gospel.html

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130020-let-your-heart-established-grace.html

I'm done. If these don't prove it, it's because no one wants it proved.

I don't like Joseph Prince so don't bother reading devotionals from him.

This thread is 2 years old

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...rror-hyper-gracea-response-michael-brown.html

But HeRose brought a new term "Emergent Church movement". Might be worth researching.

Jesus name isn't grace. Grace isn't a person.,it's a concept that means God's unmerited favor to undeserving people.

I really don't like it when people redefine words. I find it annoying and that it adds to the confusion and doesn't bring clarity and light.

So I won't be reading that thread either because it would just annoy me after reading the OP.

Anyway. Just posting to show that I did out of respect look at the links you posted.

 

[Ariel82]

I quoted the wrong list of threads.

Oh well.

 

[PeterJens]

I really don't like it when people redefine words. I find it annoying and that it adds to the confusion and doesn't bring clarity and light.

This was the most worrying trend I came across. It had to be done to make verses
change their meaning and focus.

This is man making the word of God fit their convictions, not the word guiding them into
all truth.

 

[Ariel82]

The Large Catechism - Book of Concord

By Martin Luther...it's about the 10 commandments, thought you might like it Peter. Found it skimming through the threads Stephen posted.

 

[Grace777x70]

Everyone agrees to how the true Christian life looks like when Christ is manifesting His life in us and bearing His fruit in our lives. Where the dis-connect is - how is this done?

For example: 1 Cor. 15:34 says to "Awake to righteousness and sin not as some do not have the knowledge of God".

The Greek word for "awake" means to sober up - to come to one's true self, to come to one's senses.

This passage says to wake up and see who you are in Christ. Paul had spent some time earlier in the letter telling Christians that they were the righteousness of God in Christ. 1 Cor. 1:30, 1 Cor. 6:11

Notice the natural results of "awakening" to the reality of what we have in our spirit - the inner man in Christ which has been created in righteousness and holiness. ( Eph. 4:24) - is to eliminate sin in our lives by the power of the gospel - For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed from glory to glory.

The passage doesn't say to stop sinning "so that" they can become righteous. - that is the false man-made D.I.Y. works-righteousness belief system.

The truth is - "awake to who you are in Christ because you are one with the Lord forever "so that" they don't sin. His life is where we are in now.

Sin is missing the mark - the mark being the quality of life that is in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The reason why Christians miss the mark is because they are trying to establish themselves by what they do or don't do rather than trusting in what God in Christ has already established and provided.

 

[Ariel82]

Wow Peterjens, you need to re-read this thread and apologize to some folks..there are some things you said in the thread that are just plain wrong.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129506-how-recognize-mixed-grace-gospel-17.html

Meanwhile I will read this articles Phil posted...

https://www.monergism.com/blog/faith-or-obedience

Revisiting the Grace Boys - The Aquila Report

 

[Ariel82]

Anyway.

This is the accepted definition of hyper grace:

Here is a brief description for those who don't know what Hyper-Grace is:

The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality

If you claim to teach or support hyper grace,this is what folks believe you are teaching because it's a term coined to describe the above.

If you don't teach the above version of grace..,then dont call it hyper grace.

I know I DO NOT believe in "hyper grace" as defined above and many others would reject that type of grace also.

Don't really want to debate "hyper grace". Would prefer to talk about God's grace and how we are saved by Faith and not works.

 

[Grace777x70]

This below is absolute nonsense and it is NOT what anyone that I have listened to says.

It is a mis-representation of what is said and a complete distortion of what is really being said. Some things like - God sees us holy and righteous in Christ are in fact true!

I have listened to over 1,000 messages from all sorts of different grace teachers from different denominational backgrounds and never once heard this nonsense below.

Quote:

Here is a brief description for those who don't know what Hyper-Grace is:

The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality

Unquote:

What gets me is - this has been showed to be false and in fact a complete lie and yet people still posts these lies. Make no mistake about it - there is an all out war on the grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.