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Narn
Guest
sooooo Kyng_james I assume you are King James only then. And my nasb, niv, nkjv, and esv all have problems?
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Cako53
Guest
Pretty much. The KJV is "perfect". Besides all the errors that I pointed out earlier.
Re: To Karuna
I made just such an argument earlier in post #77. It is based totally on the credibility of the committees making up the bible translation. I have nothing against the credibility of the team that composed the KJV, but they did not have all of the information available to them, that was available to the RSV authors. The credibility of the authors of a religious work is of utmost importance, and includes their personal life. To question that is not lazy or dangerous, and is in fact necessary. There is no room for political correctness when it comes to the Word of God.
I made just such an argument earlier in post #77. It is based totally on the credibility of the committees making up the bible translation. I have nothing against the credibility of the team that composed the KJV, but they did not have all of the information available to them, that was available to the RSV authors. The credibility of the authors of a religious work is of utmost importance, and includes their personal life. To question that is not lazy or dangerous, and is in fact necessary. There is no room for political correctness when it comes to the Word of God.
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karuna
Guest
Re: To Karuna
Here we must differ, then. Of utmost importance to me in considering a religious work is its content. It is either true or false, edifying or not. Like I said before, I can get good dietary advice from a fat doctor. I can hear from a demon that Jesus is the Holy One of God. Donkeys can give prophecies.
To judge a work primarily by its origin is to jump headfirst into the genetic fallacy. This doesn't mean that the author's personal life is completely irrelevant - in fact, living in accordance with the recommendations of the work means at the very least that he is not a hypocrite; at best, it can lend credence to the content.
I suppose you misunderstand me if you think that I would say that's lazy or dangerous. No, question away. However, I find it dangerous to build up a doctrine that would disqualify the KJV behind our backs if, say, the Greek teacher of one of the translators was a pederast or one of the translators was able to conceal his lustfulness from the modern day.
Here we must differ, then. Of utmost importance to me in considering a religious work is its content. It is either true or false, edifying or not. Like I said before, I can get good dietary advice from a fat doctor. I can hear from a demon that Jesus is the Holy One of God. Donkeys can give prophecies.
To judge a work primarily by its origin is to jump headfirst into the genetic fallacy. This doesn't mean that the author's personal life is completely irrelevant - in fact, living in accordance with the recommendations of the work means at the very least that he is not a hypocrite; at best, it can lend credence to the content.
I suppose you misunderstand me if you think that I would say that's lazy or dangerous. No, question away. However, I find it dangerous to build up a doctrine that would disqualify the KJV behind our backs if, say, the Greek teacher of one of the translators was a pederast or one of the translators was able to conceal his lustfulness from the modern day.
Re: To Karuna
Now you're really trying to stretch it. What a translator's Greek teacher did is no reflection on his own character. Now as to disqualifying the translation, not at all. No one is advocating that. Most modern bibles are translated by committee, where the bias of one member can be outweighed by the majority. What I am saying is that when these committees are put together, every effort must be made to find people who are of high character, as well as academic ability. High character in this case is as described by Paul in 1 Timothy chapter 3. Now certainly there are many secular Greek scholars who could do a fine job of translating the bible. Now perhaps you would like to take a chance that these men, of perhaps questionable character, and lacking in faith, might translate it in the same spirit in which it is intended. If living up to the world's expectations of tolerance is more important than the truth, perhaps that is the way to go.
Now you're really trying to stretch it. What a translator's Greek teacher did is no reflection on his own character. Now as to disqualifying the translation, not at all. No one is advocating that. Most modern bibles are translated by committee, where the bias of one member can be outweighed by the majority. What I am saying is that when these committees are put together, every effort must be made to find people who are of high character, as well as academic ability. High character in this case is as described by Paul in 1 Timothy chapter 3. Now certainly there are many secular Greek scholars who could do a fine job of translating the bible. Now perhaps you would like to take a chance that these men, of perhaps questionable character, and lacking in faith, might translate it in the same spirit in which it is intended. If living up to the world's expectations of tolerance is more important than the truth, perhaps that is the way to go.
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karuna
Guest
Re: To Karuna
Then we're reading different threads.
Then we agree on this point.
It's not that I want to take the chance. I merely want it to be acknowledged that the chance exists. Again, I'm not arguing for or against particular translations. I'm arguing against sloppy rhetoric.
Then we're reading different threads.
Then we agree on this point.
It's not that I want to take the chance. I merely want it to be acknowledged that the chance exists. Again, I'm not arguing for or against particular translations. I'm arguing against sloppy rhetoric.
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HumbleSaint
Guest
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation: even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles,Speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest(twist), as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:15-16
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charisenexcelcis
Guest
Well, I checked the first ten or so in the Greek manuscripts. While I disagree with the NIV on a few of them, at least four had virutually no textual evidence for the inclusion of the missing word, not even the Antiochan texts that KJV only boast of. I would say that it is a fearful thing to leave out a word, just as fearful to add one.
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HumbleSaint
Guest
How do you know it was the original Greek Manuscrips? Do you have Paul's thumb print to prove it?
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charisenexcelcis
Guest
So, let's see if the character of the translators affected the translation of passages having to do with homosexuality.
"They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Genesis 19:5
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done whant is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." Leviticus 20:13
"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Eventheir women exhanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the sme way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Romans 1:29-30
Seems pretty clear that the NIV condemns honosexuality as a perversion.
"They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Genesis 19:5
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done whant is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." Leviticus 20:13
"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Eventheir women exhanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the sme way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Romans 1:29-30
Seems pretty clear that the NIV condemns honosexuality as a perversion.
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charisenexcelcis
Guest
Well, in the four cases, the Greek words are simply missing from the manuscripts. There are some that you could argue about, but not those four. To say that they were added without any evidence to support them, but they were in the original opens you to add anything.How do you know it was the original Greek Manuscrips? Do you have Paul's thumb print to prove it?
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charisenexcelcis
Guest
Re: To Karuna
The Textus Recepticus is just a compilation of manuscripts. It changed from one edition to the next, so you might want to specify at what point, specifically what edition was the preserved text. Likewise, the KJV was originally published in two versions, and later was edited several times, so you should specify exact which edition is the perfect Bible. One of the many advantages of the KJV is that it is not copywritten, therefore, I can make my own translation and label it the KJV. This is why you should specify. The great advantage of the lack of copyright is that it holds the costs of Bibles down.
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charisenexcelcis
Guest
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charisenexcelcis
Guest
Do you speak and understand the language of the KJV? Would you be willing to take a little test, right from the KJV?
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charisenexcelcis
Guest
So, would God allow the only possible translation to become unreadable by the vast majority of the English reading audience. I have asked one simple question a hundred times and only twice have got the right answer: what is the difference between you and thou? The fact is that any English speaker born in the last hundred years does not speak KJV English. would God, who is not the author of confusion, speak to me in Latin or in Chinese?
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charisenexcelcis
Guest
Why not just use the origianl monogene? Was that not good enough? I would contend that there are many who would be confused by the archaic "begotten". I myself prefer the phrase "only born", a most literal translation, but very awkward.
Here is a question: Why did the translators of the KJV use "charity" in I Corinthians to translate a word that they elsewhere translated "love". Was that difference inspired of God? Does it now mean that rather than loving, I can simply support charity?
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charisenexcelcis
Guest
Did I miss it. Did it say KJV in that verse. Did it say that the holy men of God translated the KJV?
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Consumed
Guest
hmmmm i ve been told that rupert murdoch owns the copyright to the niv lol
whether that is true i dont know, i dont frankly care, tne most important ""doctrine"" and "translation" is that God is love and we are to love each other as ourselves, The Good News is Jesus
i know people who love chillis, i dont personally, not my to my taste
whether that is true i dont know, i dont frankly care, tne most important ""doctrine"" and "translation" is that God is love and we are to love each other as ourselves, The Good News is Jesus
i know people who love chillis, i dont personally, not my to my taste
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charisenexcelcis
Guest
Amen. I am not an NIV fan, nor am I a KJV opponent. sometimes I get tired of having the same circular discussion. thank you for your grace.hmmmm i ve been told that rupert murdoch owns the copyright to the niv lol
whether that is true i dont know, i dont frankly care, tne most important ""doctrine"" and "translation" is that God is love and we are to love each other as ourselves, The Good News is Jesus
i know people who love chillis, i dont personally, not my to my taste
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Consumed
Guest
its all about the sinful nature of pride and self righteousness that gets in the way of being a living example of Gods character at heart, to love. im finding it more difficult each day to even bother posting to the threads over all as half the time its not uplifting
i challenge myself to just remind people its all about Jesus, to debate,i feel, is to exhort and encourage people with dignity and respect to whatever and however they feel so that the grace of God will touch their hearts, one needs an open heart for that to happen and stay open and teachable at all times, many things i believed over the years i no longer do for the resaon of staying open to Gods word and not allowing myself to think "im right in everything"
ive been challenged on cc and had something in my heart revealed that had been and was hindering my walk that i had never thought was the case, yet when something was pointed out i felt at first, "no" but allowed God to search my heart, if it be so Lord please bring it to my mind and conviction come upon me, i thank and pray for that person since for being loving in their posts to me, yet at the first glance i felt offended by "you dont know me" true but Jesus does and used that person to bring it to my mind to have the Holy Spirit pierce my pride and heal me. thank you Jesus, only by your blood and the cross on calvary,
to think, Jesus set his face like flint to die the death of the cross so much so a town refused Him entry by the determination on His face scared them, wow,
love you all, never let us forget "it is all about Jesus" though
i challenge myself to just remind people its all about Jesus, to debate,i feel, is to exhort and encourage people with dignity and respect to whatever and however they feel so that the grace of God will touch their hearts, one needs an open heart for that to happen and stay open and teachable at all times, many things i believed over the years i no longer do for the resaon of staying open to Gods word and not allowing myself to think "im right in everything"
ive been challenged on cc and had something in my heart revealed that had been and was hindering my walk that i had never thought was the case, yet when something was pointed out i felt at first, "no" but allowed God to search my heart, if it be so Lord please bring it to my mind and conviction come upon me, i thank and pray for that person since for being loving in their posts to me, yet at the first glance i felt offended by "you dont know me" true but Jesus does and used that person to bring it to my mind to have the Holy Spirit pierce my pride and heal me. thank you Jesus, only by your blood and the cross on calvary,
to think, Jesus set his face like flint to die the death of the cross so much so a town refused Him entry by the determination on His face scared them, wow,
love you all, never let us forget "it is all about Jesus" though