Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A
1. How does one become justified?
2. Does justification alone equal salvation or must you also be sanctified?
3. How does justification change a person?
4. What is sanctification?
5. Define salvation.
At this point it should be easy to answer these 5 questions with your own words.
Or I could answer them and everyone else can tell me how wrong I am.
2. Does justification alone equal salvation or must you also be sanctified?
3. How does justification change a person?
4. What is sanctification?
5. Define salvation.
At this point it should be easy to answer these 5 questions with your own words.
Or I could answer them and everyone else can tell me how wrong I am.
This is very good. Religious people don't know how to accept everything that makes them anything to be wholly and only because of Jesus. Grace is such a profound unearthly gift from Jesus that we cannot comprehend how it will flow in and through our lives until once we allow it to happen.
The Holy Spirit won't force us. He will attempt to teach the willing born again person. But that person has to be a willing participant. Once you get a hold of this heavenly grace and I mean really a hold of it so even when other religious people try to take it away from you piece by piece you are not moved. It is then that each day is a new possibility for the Holy Spirit to show up in our life and show you something else about Jesus you didn't know before.
And how it applies to us personally because it's how He gave us all things we need.
It's not difficult to understand that we do not earn the grace of God through religious acts and that salvation is by grace through faith. That is the point that I was making with the meme that I posted, yet you trampled all over my point and created a straw man argument.
That statement is the epitome of irony.
Straw man argument.
Maybe you are confusing me with yourself.
Another straw man argument. At lest blue_ladybug got it.
That statement is the epitome of irony.
Straw man argument.
Maybe you are confusing me with yourself.
Another straw man argument. At lest blue_ladybug got it.
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame,
and is set down at
the right hand of
the throne of God.
Heb 12:2
A
1. There is only one way to be justified....faith in the redeeming work of Jesus Christ. Which is a free gift and can not be earned.
2. Salvation involves both justification and sanctification in that God causes both to happen in the lives of His born again children.
3. Justification causes a person to be born again and have a heart that seeks God's will and be lead by the Holy Spirit. It restores the relationship between God and the person and allows us to cry out "Abba, father". This is all done completely by God's power and will.
4. Sanctification as I explained earlier includes regeneration (being born again) and ongoing personal cleansing of old habits and fleshly desires (putting to death the old man) and learning God's ways and displaying the fruit of the Spirit (putting on the new man in Christ). This is done by God's power and active participation from the person to learn and be changed by God's holy spirit leading in our lives.
5. Salvation is a term used for the whole process.
It can be used solely to describe the born again experience, if the person believes God's promise that what He begins, He will see finished. Anyone who God calls will be saved.
Or it can be used to describe the final step, when Jesus comes back and judges the living and dead and gives His people their resurrected bodies.
I prefer the concept that is expressed that "I am saved, I am being saved and I will be saved"
By this I mean.
I have been justified and cleansed By the blood of the lamb. I am a child of God, born again with His Holy Spirit guiding me. I am saved.
I am not sinless or perfectly spiritually mature as I know God would have me. However, God is leading me and as much as I know I speak of His love and mercy and grace. When I stumble and fall, He picks me up, if I sin, He chastens me as He does every child of His. Thus I am being saved.
One day He will return and give us new resurrected bodies and destroy this world and replace it with a new heaven and new earth.,in that way...I will be saved.
****
Anyway. Y'all can tear it apart as you like, but that is what God had taught me.
What has He taught you?
2. Salvation involves both justification and sanctification in that God causes both to happen in the lives of His born again children.
3. Justification causes a person to be born again and have a heart that seeks God's will and be lead by the Holy Spirit. It restores the relationship between God and the person and allows us to cry out "Abba, father". This is all done completely by God's power and will.
4. Sanctification as I explained earlier includes regeneration (being born again) and ongoing personal cleansing of old habits and fleshly desires (putting to death the old man) and learning God's ways and displaying the fruit of the Spirit (putting on the new man in Christ). This is done by God's power and active participation from the person to learn and be changed by God's holy spirit leading in our lives.
5. Salvation is a term used for the whole process.
It can be used solely to describe the born again experience, if the person believes God's promise that what He begins, He will see finished. Anyone who God calls will be saved.
Or it can be used to describe the final step, when Jesus comes back and judges the living and dead and gives His people their resurrected bodies.
I prefer the concept that is expressed that "I am saved, I am being saved and I will be saved"
By this I mean.
I have been justified and cleansed By the blood of the lamb. I am a child of God, born again with His Holy Spirit guiding me. I am saved.
I am not sinless or perfectly spiritually mature as I know God would have me. However, God is leading me and as much as I know I speak of His love and mercy and grace. When I stumble and fall, He picks me up, if I sin, He chastens me as He does every child of His. Thus I am being saved.
One day He will return and give us new resurrected bodies and destroy this world and replace it with a new heaven and new earth.,in that way...I will be saved.
****
Anyway. Y'all can tear it apart as you like, but that is what God had taught me.
What has He taught you?
Last edited by a moderator:
This works religion is lethal to the mind of a believer. Those who believe they can mess up enough so they can no longer be loved by God are in a real jam. To them I say., YOU must live your Christian life just the same way you got saved.... by grace through faith.
And yes., it is possible to be saved and walk according to your flesh. Yes., it's possible to listen to the promptings of your old mind and heart habits and not the Holy Spirit who is longing to show you a new and living Way. Thousands of Christians are doing it every day and know NO different because no one has been able to teach them any different. SOOO SAD and tragic because it doesn't have to be!!!!!
But what is happening these days is the Holy Spirit is moving in the lives of believers and the gospel of grace and truth is being spread among Christians so that they live their lives the way they were saved into eternal life. These are the joyful ones. The ones who have seen and tasted that the Lord is good. They have begun to know about His grace. They know they are not able to be good enough to do anything of value for the kingdom of God.
They have learned that only the Holy Spirit living in and through them can cause FRUIT to grow in their lives. No amount of self sacrifice or hard work can manifest the Holy Spirit in our lives.
The gift is free and can't be bought. Or Jesus would not have suffered and died at all.
And yes., it is possible to be saved and walk according to your flesh. Yes., it's possible to listen to the promptings of your old mind and heart habits and not the Holy Spirit who is longing to show you a new and living Way. Thousands of Christians are doing it every day and know NO different because no one has been able to teach them any different. SOOO SAD and tragic because it doesn't have to be!!!!!
But what is happening these days is the Holy Spirit is moving in the lives of believers and the gospel of grace and truth is being spread among Christians so that they live their lives the way they were saved into eternal life. These are the joyful ones. The ones who have seen and tasted that the Lord is good. They have begun to know about His grace. They know they are not able to be good enough to do anything of value for the kingdom of God.
They have learned that only the Holy Spirit living in and through them can cause FRUIT to grow in their lives. No amount of self sacrifice or hard work can manifest the Holy Spirit in our lives.
The gift is free and can't be bought. Or Jesus would not have suffered and died at all.
Why did Messiah only wash the feet of the Apostles? Because their Works In Righteousness where made acceptable to Elohim through Yahshua Messiah.
What Messiah does we should be doing out of love for Yahshua Messiah as He did out of love for YHWH Elohim. When I share this with y'all on here I'm aware that I might be coming off abrasive. Know I love you too. He loves us more and doesn't change so we won't be confused.
What Messiah does we should be doing out of love for Yahshua Messiah as He did out of love for YHWH Elohim. When I share this with y'all on here I'm aware that I might be coming off abrasive. Know I love you too. He loves us more and doesn't change so we won't be confused.
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!
Rom 5:9
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
Eph 1:7
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:13
Rom 5:9
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
Eph 1:7
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:13
Yup by the skin of their teeth. Which may be illuding to weeping and gnashing of teeth. But Messiah said, " why are you not clothed in Righteousness. I gave you the linen garment to put on! Why didn't you put it on? Then bound and thrown out where there's weeping and gnashing of teeth. Wow I don't know about you but as for me and my house. We will call on YHWH Elohim in Messiah Yeshua.
The same.
Except at the end when WE WILL BE SAVED, it turns into glorification.
But no problem with how you explained it.
VERY WELL, BTW.
Could we agree that works are necessary, or is this still a problem?
For whatever reason...
Jesus DEMANDS and COMMANDS that we do good works AFTER justification.
Is this OK with you?
Except at the end when WE WILL BE SAVED, it turns into glorification.
But no problem with how you explained it.
VERY WELL, BTW.
Could we agree that works are necessary, or is this still a problem?
For whatever reason...
Jesus DEMANDS and COMMANDS that we do good works AFTER justification.
Is this OK with you?
I know that hell was not taught in the O.T. in the way we undersand it today,
however, I do believe that in the Wedding Banquet Yeshua did mean that some will be thrown out where GOD IS NOT.
This is hell. However one would want to explain it... But God will NOT be there. That's hell enough.
God is here on earth, satan's home, and look at the mess. Imagine if God were NOT here...
however, I do believe that in the Wedding Banquet Yeshua did mean that some will be thrown out where GOD IS NOT.
This is hell. However one would want to explain it... But God will NOT be there. That's hell enough.
God is here on earth, satan's home, and look at the mess. Imagine if God were NOT here...
A
The same.
Except at the end when WE WILL BE SAVED, it turns into glorification.
But no problem with how you explained it.
VERY WELL, BTW.
Could we agree that works are necessary, or is this still a problem?
For whatever reason...
Jesus DEMANDS and COMMANDS that we do good works AFTER justification.
Is this OK with you?
Except at the end when WE WILL BE SAVED, it turns into glorification.
But no problem with how you explained it.
VERY WELL, BTW.
Could we agree that works are necessary, or is this still a problem?
For whatever reason...
Jesus DEMANDS and COMMANDS that we do good works AFTER justification.
Is this OK with you?
God has other means to teach His kids the importance of listening to Him besides disowning them.
God's love and wisdom is greater than that.
Jesus needed only to wash the feet because we are wholly already washed and saved. So it's only our most recent sin that needs forgiveness.
Also to show how the Apostles are to be sevants and not masters. IOW, their leadership position should not "go to their heads."
Thirdly, and something I don't hear enough of, the washing of the feet teaches us that we are to ACCEPT God's love. It's not Always easy to accept love. Is it easy to have our feet washed? It puts us ina vulnerable position.
Peter told Jesus He could not wash his feet. Jesus said He MUST wash them. Peter MUST ALLOW HIM to.
We must allow Jesus to love us and we must accept that love and give it back to everyone, or Yeshua's message is lost.
Also to show how the Apostles are to be sevants and not masters. IOW, their leadership position should not "go to their heads."
Thirdly, and something I don't hear enough of, the washing of the feet teaches us that we are to ACCEPT God's love. It's not Always easy to accept love. Is it easy to have our feet washed? It puts us ina vulnerable position.
Peter told Jesus He could not wash his feet. Jesus said He MUST wash them. Peter MUST ALLOW HIM to.
We must allow Jesus to love us and we must accept that love and give it back to everyone, or Yeshua's message is lost.