Could the "elder brother" in the story of the prodigal son be the problem with this discussion and the division of thought?
Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)
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Holy means "Set Apart"
Set apart from what? From the World. What is the World? The lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life.
The word Church (Ekklesia) means called out ones. Call out of what? Darkness into Light. What is darkness? The World. What is Light? Life by the Spirit in following the Lord Jesus
Therefore the Church is to be Holy.
1 Peter 1:16New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”[SUP][a][/SUP]
We receive our positional sanctification immediately (1 Cor 1.2). Our continual sanctification is life long.
Our repentance is the first gift of God when we are born again,
I never asked that or said that. Is holiness and righteousness a position or work for?
I answered you already. BOTH.
Here is more evidence since you want to be hard of hearing:
1 Peter 1
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; [SUP]14 [/SUP]as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; [SUP]15 [/SUP]but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, [SUP]16 [/SUP]because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”[SUP][c][/SUP]
Nobody is hard of hearing bro, so please calm down.
You cannot work in your own flesh or strength to be righteous or holy. Anything you do to "work" towards holiness or righteousness in your flesh is simply "self righteousness or self holiness" and is counted as filthy rags.
Enabling or empowering grace talked about in Titus 2.11-15 will make you more holy on accident than anything you doin your own strength or flesh.
Enabling/empowering grace is allowed to teach us, when we fully understand that Holiness [being set apart] and righteousness[justified and in right standing with God] is position granted to us at conversion.
If you are working to obtain holiness or righteousness in your flesh, then you do not have proper understanding of the positional standing we already have in both, at conversion.
Trying to obtain holiness and righteousness by changing the outside to effect a change on the inside is nothing more than self-righteousness and is works based salvation and takes away from what Jesus did on the cross.
in other words the Christian is to live as one set apart to God about which all agree. that says NOTHING about how we come to be like that. That is the RESULT of our salvation from sins guilt.
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BeyondET
Guest
This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....
However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
This involves the renewing of the mind.
God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
( who are sanctified this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive ).
Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.
Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.
Acts 26:17 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (perfect passive )
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.
There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
We are holy because He is holy! Christ makes us holy.
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....
However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
This involves the renewing of the mind.
God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
( who are sanctified this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive ).
Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.
Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.
Acts 26:17 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (perfect passive )
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.
There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
We are holy because He is holy! Christ makes us holy.
Simple question: Now that sins guilt is dealt with.......do you continue in sin or cease?
If you think that is a simple question you are unaware of yourself. The Christian ceases to continually sin. He is no longer under sin. But alas he still has sin within him and it catches him out. 'There is no one who does good and sins not.'
The empowering comes from Him.
The choice comes from you.
The action, as a result of your choice comes from you.
I type it out again:
1 Peter 1 v15
........also be holy in all your conduct......
Don't be afraid of just taking this at face value.
Let's look at Grace's empowerment:
Titus 2
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts <who is to deny them? you or God?>, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, [SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Grace teaches US to deny them.
B
BeyondET
Guest
Anything you do to attempt to be holy or rightoeus is self-righteousness and takes away from the complete work of Christ Jesus. I know many atheists that chose to be morally holy.
much of the choice came from Him when I was born again, He changed my thoughts.,
What is its face value? It takes many years even to begin to know what it means.,
You have missed the whole point of grace. It is not something with which God empowers us. It is God Who in His grace acts within us,
God acts in grace towards us, and not only teaches us, but by His grace enables us. God works in us to will and do of His good pleasure. HE delivers us from every lawless deed. He purifies us. He teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires. We just respond.
God acting within us by His grace teaches us to deny them.
And when God asks you why you didn't give up your pet sin on judgement day, will you blame Him for not giving it up?
