I notice the cake takers and workers for still default to James out of context to push a working for dogma......
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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As most workers for do....assume that we live like the "debil" cause we rightfully believe grace dia faith eternal salvation void of works.....
more of a chance to die driving than flying....After this trip about 130,000 miles under the belt hahah
I see that the workers for fail to understand that we are NOT UNDER THE CONDEMNATION OF THE LAW.....and NO ONE CAN KEEP THE LAW....MORE PSEUDO blended deceit and bondage on their part.....
The only ones who seem to lose salvation in the eyes of the workers for and cake takers are the ones who actually have it to begin with.........if salvation can be lost..the workers for don't have to worry..they cannot lose something they do not possess
Salvation cannot be lost.....verb tense, context, and the promises of God prove this....
Amen...and like ususal...post 7174<--the workers for go to verse out of context to prove something that does not exist....wonder how many of them will boast before Jesus before being cast from his presence.....most if not all!
It won't do any good to ask him for scripture because it will be twisted so far out of context that even a pretzle shop would not sell it as defective......serious
Glad to see this cake posted for the cake takers and workers for......they, just like this jelly roll, embellish scripture and twist it so far out of context to teach a false dogma that anyone with eyes wide open can see their deceit and false gospels....
In order to understand each other and Paul I must start by framing this important topic.
The law of sin and death is nailed to the cross. The law of Elohim is the law of the spirit and life to those who find it.
Torah is the law of Elohim and as such it should be taught in the congregation. Who among us is without sin? Who among us doesn't have some sort of enemy strong hold in their mind. These logs blind us to walking in truth. The word is truth and as such has a way in which a child of Elohim should go.
Simply put the word which is of the spirit has the power to make one holy.
What power you may ask. Power to transform your mind and lighten eyes.
What power does yeast have in its own? You put water, flour, oil together in the correct order and fold yeast into the dough and it raises the whole loaf.
So it is with the Kingdom of Elohim.
We through hearing have heard of Elohim and the Messiah. We have heard from Elohim that as long as it is today do not harden our hearts. YHWH loved mankind so much that He sent His own Son Yahshua the Messiah to atone for all sin that the ones who love Elohim may have life and even now live by faith the word of truth by way of grace provided through the sacrifice and resurrection of the Messiah our Elohim.
Don't you see gunpowder has power on itself but doesn't do what it is designed for unless a charge or flame ignited it. The law of Elohim is powerful and sharper than a double edged sword. He has been sanctification in Messiah who seeks YHWH Elohim through His way. By mediator the word was given to Israel and to us a greater hope to be taught by the spirit of Elohim to keep His way and looking like the mind of Messiah through hearing and obeying we are revealed understanding and much more love.
Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.
The purpose of the law was :
1) To reveal our sinful state - Rom 3:20
2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8
3) To minister death in us - Rom 7:10-11
4) To lead us to Christ - Gal 3:24
The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is how we live now, and the law of liberty in Christ Jesus and the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith - the just shall live by faith ). The law of Christ - Himself is how we live now.
But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it in Christ's life.
Christians are dead to the Law, been released from the Law and are NOT under the Law. It can't get any plainer than that.
People are free to do whatever they want in relation to the Law - it does not make one righteous nor is it for salvation.
If someone wants to observe a particular day , festivals or eat or not eat some kinds of foods..etc - then they are free to do so. These have no bearing on one's salvation or righteousness as all that is based on the finished work of Christ.
It's where people are saying "You must observe these things or do these things in the Law or you are not obeying God" - that's where the twisting comes in and it is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ.
The law of Moses is a manifestation of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that was brought into this world by the sin of Adam. We were never meant to eat from the fruit of that tree. We are to eat from the tree of Life which is Christ Himself.
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Amen and well said....I agree.....why place yourself willingly under bondage.....tragic for sure......I choose the freedom in Christ anyday over the bondage and impossible task of keeping the whole law....no man can do it...period!
Unfortunately another tragic thing is that some of these law of Moses keepers have replaced Christ with the Law. They have it backwards - they say to use Jesus to "do the Torah". We are to use the Torah or Law of Moses to see Christ fulfilling it. Christ was not made manifest for the Torah. The Torah spoke of Christ Himself and He has fulfilled the law of Moses.
The true Christian has nothing to do with the law of Moses anymore. We live now by the law of Christ Himself in us - the hope of glory.
Amen!
2 Corinthians 4:3-6 -----------
"The Good News that we tell people may be hidden, but it is hidden only to those who are lost.
The ruler of this world has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe.
They cannot see the light of the Good News—the message about the divine greatness of Christ.
Christ is the one who is exactly like God.
We don’t tell people about ourselves.
But we tell people that Jesus Christ is Lord
and we tell them that we are your servants for Jesus.
God once said, “Let light shine out of the darkness!”
And this is the same God who made His light shine in our hearts
to let us know that His own divine greatness is seen in the face of Christ."
If anyone in the works salvation group can prove that the thief who got saved did a good work then good works is indeed needed in salvation.
If not, any argument about works salvation is just done in pure ignorance, self-justification, pride, and/or just done to confuse others.
Salvation:
Not by works = 1
By works = 0
So true!
"Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves;
but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament;
not of the letter, but of the spirit:
for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."
Law and morality
Because the opposition exist it does not make any side right.
If you take God seriously you need a theology of civil morality and personal morality.
If you are lawless you have no standing before God. You are not even in Christ, at all.
You cannot be in the law of Moses because sacrifices are no more after the cross.
So you have only the Law of Christ and the power of the Spirit.
If you say, oh but grace is all, how is murder a crime worthy of death or imprisonment?
You are a civil judge, you are defining who goes free and who does not?
If sin is irrelevant, all go free, lawlessness. So morality matters, or are you so deluded
you are really an anarchist.
Because the opposition exist it does not make any side right.
If you take God seriously you need a theology of civil morality and personal morality.
If you are lawless you have no standing before God. You are not even in Christ, at all.
You cannot be in the law of Moses because sacrifices are no more after the cross.
So you have only the Law of Christ and the power of the Spirit.
If you say, oh but grace is all, how is murder a crime worthy of death or imprisonment?
You are a civil judge, you are defining who goes free and who does not?
If sin is irrelevant, all go free, lawlessness. So morality matters, or are you so deluded
you are really an anarchist.
Who is my friend and who is my enemy?
I do not know I love you all. A simple trick played by the enemy is to try and make a divide
between people that does not exist. On one side they are perfect, right, in the way everything
should be and on the other they a deluded, stupid, ignorant, evil, lost.
In real life we are a mixture of many opinions, lifestyles, emotional histories and outlooks.
To defend ourselves we have our friends who will be sympathetic and the others who are
normally aggressive and dismissive.
Now in Christ we are one family, yet some would want to disown others and deny the very
fact they are doing this. In the discussion things get very emotional, and the enemy is deemed
satan, or some version of this. To even agree with them or empathise is to go over to the
other side.
If you give into this behaviour you have just left the Lord behind. We are commanded to love
our enemies, to understand them like we understand ourselves and see how they get where
they are. I know how hard this is, because it means being brutally honest with oneself and
with them. What you will discover is they are not that different, normally some simple idea
taken to an extreme and people painted evil when they are not, and innocents painted
innocent when they are just the same as the other group.
So my friends, if you want to follow Christ, you have to love me, which means understand
what I am saying and why. It is ironic, that in following Jesus you will always find the truth.
Glory to the King, for His ways are higher than ours.
I do not know I love you all. A simple trick played by the enemy is to try and make a divide
between people that does not exist. On one side they are perfect, right, in the way everything
should be and on the other they a deluded, stupid, ignorant, evil, lost.
In real life we are a mixture of many opinions, lifestyles, emotional histories and outlooks.
To defend ourselves we have our friends who will be sympathetic and the others who are
normally aggressive and dismissive.
Now in Christ we are one family, yet some would want to disown others and deny the very
fact they are doing this. In the discussion things get very emotional, and the enemy is deemed
satan, or some version of this. To even agree with them or empathise is to go over to the
other side.
If you give into this behaviour you have just left the Lord behind. We are commanded to love
our enemies, to understand them like we understand ourselves and see how they get where
they are. I know how hard this is, because it means being brutally honest with oneself and
with them. What you will discover is they are not that different, normally some simple idea
taken to an extreme and people painted evil when they are not, and innocents painted
innocent when they are just the same as the other group.
So my friends, if you want to follow Christ, you have to love me, which means understand
what I am saying and why. It is ironic, that in following Jesus you will always find the truth.
Glory to the King, for His ways are higher than ours.
You are under condemnation if you live according to the flesh:
Romans 8v1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[SUP][a][/SUP] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Galatians 6 v7-8
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
So you think you have liberty according to grace?
Romans 6v1
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
Romans 6v15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
So the jackpot questions are these:
1) Can we continue to sin freely?
2) Do we need to stop?
3) Is turning from sin a work of law or a work of grace?
The reason is that Jesus said so.
The purpose is because we're members of the Kingdom and we are to promote that Kingdom.